Made in china/taiwan
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Made in china/taiwan
I'm interested in knowing why some people have a problem with their bike products being made in non European/ American countries(throw japan in there too).
I have seen people freak out when they find out that their 6000 dollar carbon fiber Italian branded bike was made and assembled in Taiwan. Look if the performance of the frame is up to par and the factory operates under legitimate conditions. What is there to be so pissed about?
Correct me if i am wrong. But i think this is essentially some sort of masked/hidden racism rearing its head.
This idea that Taiwanese and Chinese are incompetent and unable to produce products good enough for the "first world".
I have seen people freak out when they find out that their 6000 dollar carbon fiber Italian branded bike was made and assembled in Taiwan. Look if the performance of the frame is up to par and the factory operates under legitimate conditions. What is there to be so pissed about?
Correct me if i am wrong. But i think this is essentially some sort of masked/hidden racism rearing its head.
This idea that Taiwanese and Chinese are incompetent and unable to produce products good enough for the "first world".
#2
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I am not sure if it is masked racism but perhaps a real belief that the quality-control in some of those countries is not up to North American/European standards.
Would you let your child play with a Thomas the Tank Engine toy built in China?
Would you let your child play with a Thomas the Tank Engine toy built in China?
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I'm interested in knowing why some people have a problem with their bike products being made in non European/ American countries(throw japan in there too).
I have seen people freak out when they find out that their 6000 dollar carbon fiber Italian branded bike was made and assembled in Taiwan. Look if the performance of the frame is up to par and the factory operates under legitimate conditions. What is there to be so pissed about?
Correct me if i am wrong. But i think this is essentially some sort of masked/hidden racism rearing its head.
This idea that Taiwanese and Chinese are incompetent and unable to produce products good enough for the "first world".
I have seen people freak out when they find out that their 6000 dollar carbon fiber Italian branded bike was made and assembled in Taiwan. Look if the performance of the frame is up to par and the factory operates under legitimate conditions. What is there to be so pissed about?
Correct me if i am wrong. But i think this is essentially some sort of masked/hidden racism rearing its head.
This idea that Taiwanese and Chinese are incompetent and unable to produce products good enough for the "first world".
Could you link some examples?
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I'm sure China/Taiwan can produce good quality products as well as cheap. Too bad they're mostly known for the cheap stuff because they have super low wage workers who obviously don't put quality first.
If China can produce 26 Olympic gold medals vs US's 14 (by aug 15 noon eastern time), I'm willing to say they can work just as hard if they wanted to. That said, if you're buying a bicycle frame, they probably have some competent workers manufacturing it and I wouldn't worry. It's with that cheap rubik's cube and ralph lauren knockoff that i'd be concerned with quality.
If China can produce 26 Olympic gold medals vs US's 14 (by aug 15 noon eastern time), I'm willing to say they can work just as hard if they wanted to. That said, if you're buying a bicycle frame, they probably have some competent workers manufacturing it and I wouldn't worry. It's with that cheap rubik's cube and ralph lauren knockoff that i'd be concerned with quality.
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I see nothing wrong with riding bikes made in Taiwan and do think that they put out a quality product. I would also venture to say that most, if not all, of this board rides at least one bike made in Taiwan. I think that a lot of the looking down on Taiwanese bikes is that in addition to supplying bike shops with quality bikes, they also supply walmart with crap.
#6
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If China can produce 26 Olympic gold medals vs US's 14 (by aug 15 noon eastern time), I'm willing to say they can work just as hard if they wanted to. That said, if you're buying a bicycle frame, they probably have some competent workers manufacturing it and I wouldn't worry. It's with that cheap rubik's cube and ralph lauren knockoff that i'd be concerned with quality.
There were fake Ferraris found in mainland China, why wouldn't they knock-off bicycles?
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I'm sure China/Taiwan can produce good quality products as well as cheap. Too bad they're mostly known for the cheap stuff because they have super low wage workers who obviously don't put quality first.
If China can produce 26 Olympic gold medals vs US's 14 (by aug 15 noon eastern time), I'm willing to say they can work just as hard if they wanted to. That said, if you're buying a bicycle frame, they probably have some competent workers manufacturing it and I wouldn't worry. It's with that cheap rubik's cube and ralph lauren knockoff that i'd be concerned with quality.
If China can produce 26 Olympic gold medals vs US's 14 (by aug 15 noon eastern time), I'm willing to say they can work just as hard if they wanted to. That said, if you're buying a bicycle frame, they probably have some competent workers manufacturing it and I wouldn't worry. It's with that cheap rubik's cube and ralph lauren knockoff that i'd be concerned with quality.
Counting gold medals tells us nothing.
Among other things, in per capita gold medals both the PRC and the U.S. are wussy.
China has 1 gold medal for every 50,000,000 people. The U.S. has 1 gold for every 21,000,000 people. Australia, on the other hand, has 1 gold medal for every 5,000,000.
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This does happen. Not sure why certain brands seem susceptible to this, but there have been well publicized problems with this with Colnago and Specialized.
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A product's quality has as much to do with the factory managers/workers as it does the brand name buying from them.
it just urks me when people mention walmart but don't mention or know anything about the fact that ipods/iphones and now even bmw's are made in china.
And it cracks me up how so many "big name bike brand" make so much profit from chinese labor but always try to hide the fact that the bike is made in china. And when it does it always goes something like. "designed in the US. made in china" or some **** like that. always making sure the consumer knows the product has something to do with Europe or the US. while hiding the actual country of production. lame.
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If I had the money to buy a Look frame, I would rather buy one made in Italy vs one in Taiwan.
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Im sure QC would improve dramatically if they forced their childeren into labor camps at age 3 like their olympic hopefuls are. Luckily, the factory workers have a reprieve until about 8.
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how is that different from a Quality Taiwanese product made in good conditions? I mean seriously are bikes being made is sweat shops?
#15
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I think a lot of people have a pretty unsophisticated knowledge of manufacturing and economics. In general, most manufacturing has shifted from the U.S. and Europe to Asia. The reason: lower cost of living and fewer unions = low labor costs. The advantage to the consumer (us) is that savings from lower labor costs often result in lower prices (or higher grade materials or greater return for shareholder's investment).
Quality control is a totally separate issue. Taiwanese or Chinese workers are just as capable of producing high quality products as their American and European counterparts. To think otherwise is prejudiced.
Like most industries, the bike industry shifted most of its manufacturing to Asia in the last 20 years. The bike factories that remain in the U.S. and Europe tend to be boutique, specialty brands. Of course their product will be higher quality than the large-scale operations in Asia. That's their market niche. The bike will also cost two or three or four times more.
I've never seen any evidence to indicate that comparably speced bikes made in the U.S./Europe and Asia have significant quality differences. I have seen plenty of evidence to suggest that bikes made in Asia have better value.
Quality control is a totally separate issue. Taiwanese or Chinese workers are just as capable of producing high quality products as their American and European counterparts. To think otherwise is prejudiced.
Like most industries, the bike industry shifted most of its manufacturing to Asia in the last 20 years. The bike factories that remain in the U.S. and Europe tend to be boutique, specialty brands. Of course their product will be higher quality than the large-scale operations in Asia. That's their market niche. The bike will also cost two or three or four times more.
I've never seen any evidence to indicate that comparably speced bikes made in the U.S./Europe and Asia have significant quality differences. I have seen plenty of evidence to suggest that bikes made in Asia have better value.
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Look, in the 1950s, anything labeled "Made in Japan" was considered around the world to be junk, particularly if it was electronics or cars. In the 1960s to the 1980s, "Made in Taiwan" became the new "Made in" junk, then in the 1990s, "Made in China" became the low-cost, low-quality manufacturing label.
Would you buy Japanese electronics or cars today? Sure, they are considered some of the best in the world. Just as "Made in China" electronics probably will be the best in the world 10 years from now. Regardless, this history lesson is very recent history. Meaning people hang on to stereotypes (particularly with consumer goods) that they grew up with.
So, yes there is still a stigma attached to "Made in China/Taiwan" bikes, because it was only 20 years ago that anything coming out of there was considered low-quality junk. Does it reflect reality? Not really, since most bikes are made there now, whether they are Wal-Mart bikes or Bianchis. In the end, does it really matter?
Would you buy Japanese electronics or cars today? Sure, they are considered some of the best in the world. Just as "Made in China" electronics probably will be the best in the world 10 years from now. Regardless, this history lesson is very recent history. Meaning people hang on to stereotypes (particularly with consumer goods) that they grew up with.
So, yes there is still a stigma attached to "Made in China/Taiwan" bikes, because it was only 20 years ago that anything coming out of there was considered low-quality junk. Does it reflect reality? Not really, since most bikes are made there now, whether they are Wal-Mart bikes or Bianchis. In the end, does it really matter?
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i stated on the first post of this topic that if the chinese/taiwanese factory conditions are legitimate and the product is of the caliber and passes the same qc. What difference does it make that it is made in europe vs asia.
and if it does make a difference... at this point it is related to nationalism and race.
and i wish people would just admit that.
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giants gtech facility in Taiwan is so advanced that they get weapon inspection tests to make sure they were not building light weight carbon parts for missile warheads.
just food for thought.
just food for thought.
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I'm interested in knowing why some people have a problem with their bike products being made in non European/ American countries(throw japan in there too).
I have seen people freak out when they find out that their 6000 dollar carbon fiber Italian branded bike was made and assembled in Taiwan. Look if the performance of the frame is up to par and the factory operates under legitimate conditions. What is there to be so pissed about?
Correct me if i am wrong. But i think this is essentially some sort of masked/hidden racism rearing its head.
This idea that Taiwanese and Chinese are incompetent and unable to produce products good enough for the "first world".
I have seen people freak out when they find out that their 6000 dollar carbon fiber Italian branded bike was made and assembled in Taiwan. Look if the performance of the frame is up to par and the factory operates under legitimate conditions. What is there to be so pissed about?
Correct me if i am wrong. But i think this is essentially some sort of masked/hidden racism rearing its head.
This idea that Taiwanese and Chinese are incompetent and unable to produce products good enough for the "first world".
That being said, it still hurts to hear people talk about Asian made goods all the same. I'm Chinese, and it stings when people talk about "cheap Chinese steel" because it sure sounds like they're talking about me to an extent. Sometimes, like in the case of the auto industry circa 70's-80's, that's what it turns into. But the dynamic here feels different. At least, I like to think it is.
#20
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Yep, I always remember in Back to the Future when Marty had to explain to Doc that the best stuff is made in Japan.
China has a marketing problem but it is well-earned. Poisoned pet food, carinogenic Barbies, lead-lined McDonald's toys, fake Nikes, underage gymnasts with fake i.d's, the list goes on. Simply put, there are no laws and no accountability put into place by the government, so companies can do whatever the fark they want.
In the 2008 Chinese earthquake, 7000 schools collapsed, killing thousands of children. It is widely speculated that the government officials in charge of zoning, in collusion with building contractors, allowed the schools to built with shoddy, sub-standard materials. This is the type of corruption you are dealing with in China----un-scrupled, massive, widespread and deep.
If the Chinese government cannot guarantee the safety of their own children while they are at school, what the hell makes you think they will have any quality assurance on a bike-frame that is being sent off overseas?
China has a marketing problem but it is well-earned. Poisoned pet food, carinogenic Barbies, lead-lined McDonald's toys, fake Nikes, underage gymnasts with fake i.d's, the list goes on. Simply put, there are no laws and no accountability put into place by the government, so companies can do whatever the fark they want.
In the 2008 Chinese earthquake, 7000 schools collapsed, killing thousands of children. It is widely speculated that the government officials in charge of zoning, in collusion with building contractors, allowed the schools to built with shoddy, sub-standard materials. This is the type of corruption you are dealing with in China----un-scrupled, massive, widespread and deep.
If the Chinese government cannot guarantee the safety of their own children while they are at school, what the hell makes you think they will have any quality assurance on a bike-frame that is being sent off overseas?
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But the interesting point here Erichsia is that... taiwan and china to a certain extent are able to make these high end products and have been.
What i find interesting is when a person buys an italian branded bike. loves it. But is unhappy when he finds out 2 months later that it was actually made in taiwan/china. At this point it has nothing to do with the quality/build of the bike. But the country of where the factory is located.
What i find interesting is when a person buys an italian branded bike. loves it. But is unhappy when he finds out 2 months later that it was actually made in taiwan/china. At this point it has nothing to do with the quality/build of the bike. But the country of where the factory is located.
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Yep, I always remember in Back to the Future when Marty had to explain to Doc that the best stuff is made in Japan.
China has a marketing problem but it is well-earned. Poisoned pet food, carinogenic Barbies, lead-lined McDonald's toys, fake Nikes, underage gymnasts with fake i.d's, the list goes on. Simply put, there are no laws and no accountability put into place by the government, so companies can do whatever the fark they want.
In the 2008 Chinese earthquake, 7000 schools collapsed, killing thousands of children. It is widely speculated that the government officials in charge of zoning, in collusion with building contractors, allowed the schools to built with shoddy, sub-standard materials. This is the type of corruption you are dealing with in China----un-scrupled, massive, widespread and deep.
If the Chinese government cannot guarantee the safety of their own children while they are at school, what the hell makes you think they will have any quality assurance on a bike-frame that is being sent off overseas?
China has a marketing problem but it is well-earned. Poisoned pet food, carinogenic Barbies, lead-lined McDonald's toys, fake Nikes, underage gymnasts with fake i.d's, the list goes on. Simply put, there are no laws and no accountability put into place by the government, so companies can do whatever the fark they want.
In the 2008 Chinese earthquake, 7000 schools collapsed, killing thousands of children. It is widely speculated that the government officials in charge of zoning, in collusion with building contractors, allowed the schools to built with shoddy, sub-standard materials. This is the type of corruption you are dealing with in China----un-scrupled, massive, widespread and deep.
If the Chinese government cannot guarantee the safety of their own children while they are at school, what the hell makes you think they will have any quality assurance on a bike-frame that is being sent off overseas?
Does the US government come into US factories to do quality control?
i don't know what your point is.
Btw how is your Taiwan made GTB treating you?
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why? because people make racist, generalizations and are pretty stupid.
These generalizations carry over from decades and decades of china/japan/taiwan/asia in general making inferior quality products to U.S. and European made. The 80s, 90s, and now 21st century is the time, and the tables have turned or are turning.
And also, when people buy an Italian bike, I think they expect it to be Italian. But, these old-minded people have to realize that we're a global economy - global companies exist in the free market by cutting costs (asia, where labor's cheap, etc etc).
I have like 3 friends who are so anti-asian with their italian/other country bikes..then they get into their audi/vw's which are made in mexico, use their iphones which are made in china etc etc.
they're also the same people who would complain about paying a premium for US-made products - but of course, they encourage "american-made"
These generalizations carry over from decades and decades of china/japan/taiwan/asia in general making inferior quality products to U.S. and European made. The 80s, 90s, and now 21st century is the time, and the tables have turned or are turning.
And also, when people buy an Italian bike, I think they expect it to be Italian. But, these old-minded people have to realize that we're a global economy - global companies exist in the free market by cutting costs (asia, where labor's cheap, etc etc).
I have like 3 friends who are so anti-asian with their italian/other country bikes..then they get into their audi/vw's which are made in mexico, use their iphones which are made in china etc etc.
they're also the same people who would complain about paying a premium for US-made products - but of course, they encourage "american-made"
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But the interesting point here Erichsia is that... taiwan and china to a certain extent are able to make these high end products and have been.
What i find interesting is when a person buys an italian branded bike. loves it. But is unhappy when he finds out 2 months later that it was actually made in taiwan/china. At this point it has nothing to do with the quality/build of the bike. But the country of where the factory is located.
What i find interesting is when a person buys an italian branded bike. loves it. But is unhappy when he finds out 2 months later that it was actually made in taiwan/china. At this point it has nothing to do with the quality/build of the bike. But the country of where the factory is located.
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