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Thread: Hub Questions

  1. #1
    666 triplesixer's Avatar
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    Hub Questions

    Not new to fixed riding (been riding fixed for about 10 years) but I am new to caring (or having the money to care) about the components I ride.
    So here's the question:
    I am looking for good quality, heavy duty hubs to throw on my wheels. I love the phil woods hubs, but I don't know if they are the best for the money. I have some alex rims that I want to replace with a pair of Mavic cxp 33's.
    What hubs would you recommend?

  2. #2
    asleep at the wheel fixedpip's Avatar
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    Its pretty hard to beat Phils for the rear wheel - if you search you can find lots of opinions one way and another, but really you'll find few complaints about them aside from the price and the bolts (which are good but I find slip a little easier than the ol' fashioned threaded axle/beefy track nut combo).

    Whether you'll notice much difference running a Phil up front compared to something else, is another matter.

  3. #3
    666 triplesixer's Avatar
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    Yeah my only problem with phils is the price. I've, obviously, read rave reviews about them and how they are super strong.
    Know of anything that is high quality but maybe a little cheaper?

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    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Formula hubs plus Phil bearings = Phil hubs for 30% of the cost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
    Formula hubs plus Phil bearings = Phil hubs for 30% of the cost.
    phil's have alot more going for them than just the bearings.

    if your planning on running this new wheel for awhile its probably worth it to splurge. Also if you know anyone at a bike shop they can probably hook it up. My friend works at a bike shop in los gatos and is hooking me up with my set for like 30% off.
    St-Stuntin is a habit

    Boulder Fixed Gear

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    666 triplesixer's Avatar
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    I was looking @ formula hubs but I heard they were crap. I'm planning on building this wheelset to roll for a while, so I think I will just splurge for the phils. I've got a buddy who works at the LBS here in town so I might see if he can get me hooked up.

    In relation to the topic, do you guys think the mavic cxp 33's are a solid wheel to lace w/ the phils?

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    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ksyrius View Post
    phil's have alot more going for them than just the bearings.

    if your planning on running this new wheel for awhile its probably worth it to splurge. Also if you know anyone at a bike shop they can probably hook it up. My friend works at a bike shop in los gatos and is hooking me up with my set for like 30% off.

    Quote Originally Posted by triplesixer View Post
    I was looking @ formula hubs but I heard they were crap. I'm planning on building this wheelset to roll for a while, so I think I will just splurge for the phils.

    Please point me to the multitude of threads about broken Formula hubs.
    Last edited by mihlbach; 08-20-08 at 08:32 PM.

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    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by triplesixer View Post

    In relation to the topic, do you guys think the mavic cxp 33's are a solid wheel to lace w/ the phils?
    CXP33s are a solid rim. About the best you can get.

  9. #9
    One skid from blown knees bigbris1's Avatar
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    Formula TH50/51
    Quote Originally Posted by 91MF View Post
    bigbris stopped two runaway busses riding brakeless one time.

    the moral of the story: riding brakeless saves lives.

    i am serious.

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    trash your lugged steel
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    Quote Originally Posted by triplesixer View Post
    Not new to fixed riding (been riding fixed for about 10 years) but I am new to caring (or having the money to care) about the components I ride.
    So here's the question:
    I am looking for good quality, heavy duty hubs to throw on my wheels. I love the phil woods hubs, but I don't know if they are the best for the money. I have some alex rims that I want to replace with a pair of Mavic cxp 33's.
    What hubs would you recommend?
    http://www.londonfixiebike.co.uk/pictures/gal1.jpg looks bomb proof

  11. #11
    666 triplesixer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeroluminum View Post
    Woah! WTF are those? They look like modded shimano hubs...

  12. #12
    and an empty road
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    those are very clearly xt front hubs. not modded, just using special cogs which attach with rotor bolts.

  13. #13
    some new kind of kick Suttree's Avatar
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    Dura Ace hubs are decent but require a little bit more careful treatment
    as they don't have sealed cartridges.

    Seem to be about 265 a set here
    http://www.thebikebiz.com/product_p/trk-hub-shim01.htm

    Pauls are supposedly solid (with a disagreement heard here and
    there but nothing major)
    http://www.thebikebiz.com/product_p/trk-hub-paul01.htm

    other people will have other ideas--
    Last edited by Suttree; 08-20-08 at 09:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by aeroluminum View Post
    Reminds me of my level hubs which I've been really happy with: http://www.levelcomponents.com/
    Yeah bike!

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    Senior Member bornagainst's Avatar
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    I really like my hubs - Dia Compe Gran Compes. I was debating between these and Phils but I went the cheaper route and couldn't be happier.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Quote Originally Posted by Catnap View Post
    maybe you sharted when you were straining to clear that last hill...

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
    Formula hubs plus Phil bearings = Phil hubs for 30% of the cost.
    100% wrong.

    For most people formulas will probably do fine but to think slapping phil cart bearings into a formula turns them into phil shows you know jack**** about phil hubs.
    Mes compaingnons cui j'amoie et cui j'aim,... Me di, chanson.

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    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    stop being a

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    What are the possible differences? I'm asking this as an idiot who doesn't know anything.

    -Machining/alignment of the bearing surfaces: does that even matter with cartridge bearings?

    -Wheel attachment system: standard nut vs. hex bolt

    -Flange strength: I have never broken a flange.

    -Weight: Phils aren't light.

    -Axle/cones: again, does this make a difference with cartridge bearings?
    I have a front brake, but I only use it for slowing or stopping.

  19. #19
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacked View Post
    What are the possible differences? I'm asking this as an idiot who doesn't know anything.

    -Machining/alignment of the bearing surfaces: does that even matter with cartridge bearings?

    -Wheel attachment system: standard nut vs. hex bolt

    -Flange strength: I have never broken a flange.

    -Weight: Phils aren't light.

    -Axle/cones: again, does this make a difference with cartridge bearings?

    They are possibly minutely stronger and more finely machined, but no one here really has any data to back up any such claim. At any rate, how often does your hub shell break...or how often is it not round enough for you. To summarize...Phils look nicer and have fancier nuts...that is all.

  20. #20
    Dances With Cars TRaffic Jammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
    stop being a

    Word. Does nobody any good man, lose the 'tude if you are going to be informative do so, otherwise state your opinion without being a jackass about it. One might speak volumes about what you don't know one day, might even come from someone that had already forgotten more than you think you know. So please, lose the smarter-than-you-ness, seriously it makes you look like a tool.

    I love the looks of the Steelwool hubs, but need to learn more about them.
    Can't go wrong with campy hubs, ever.
    Last edited by TRaffic Jammer; 08-21-08 at 11:34 AM.

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    Hey, Im interested in building up the same wheelset as you seem to be, phils with CXP33's. If you can, could you let us know where you get them built up and if you think paying the extra $ for the phils was worth it? thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
    Please point me to the multitude of threads about broken Formula hubs.
    howabout this thread, still on the front page of the forums.

    " Thanks Chris--

    I destroyed a formula hub which is par for the course
    for riding it hard for a year on rollers and potholed
    streets."

    or this one
    St-Stuntin is a habit

    Boulder Fixed Gear

  23. #23
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Thats hardly a multitude.

    The first thread is nonspecific about what the problem was.

    The 2nd thread is about stripped threads after repeated brakeless skidding. Not sure you can blame that on the hub. Do you know the cog and lockring were installed correctly? There are threads on BF about stripped threads for almost every hub out there, and it usually relates to poor installation. I've owned a variety of track hubs, including formulas. I install my cogs correctly. Hub threads have never been an issue and I'm a big guy that doesn't ride lightly.

    At any rate, legitimate problems with formula hubs are rare. Obviously a few people have issues, but people largely rave about them and even prefer them over other budget hubs (surly, soma, etc.). Its not as if you are taking a huge risk by owning them. I've owned Phil products with issues too...in particular, a BB that lasted about 1500 miles (on dry roads) before it was completely trashed. Its easy to find threads on BF about damaged Phil hubs. I found this one in about 15 seconds.
    Damaged threads on my Phil hub - Problem / No Problem ?

    FWIW, you would have to destroy more than 3 pairs of Formulas to equal the cost of one set of Phils...its exceedingly unlikely that this will ever happen. The OP asked if Phils were the best for the money. The bottom line is that you are mostly paying for a fashion accessory with Phils. A Formula hub (even with the stock bearings) is 99.9% as likely to do what Phil hubs do, and cost less than 1/3 as much. Additionally there are a multitude of hubs that cost more than Formulas and less than Phils, that will work just as well. At any rate, buying good functional non-bling components will get you an equal (if not better) wheel. Put the rest of your money into getting a quality build.
    Last edited by mihlbach; 08-21-08 at 05:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
    Thats hardly a multitude.

    The first thread is nonspecific about what the problem was.

    The 2nd thread is about stripped threads after repeated brakeless skidding. Not sure you can blame that on the hub. Do you know the cog and lockring were installed correctly? There are threads on BF about stripped threads for almost every hub out there, and it usually relates to poor installation. I've owned a variety of track hubs, including formulas. I install my cogs correctly. Hub threads have never been an issue and I'm a big guy that doesn't ride lightly.

    At any rate, legitimate problems with formula hubs are rare. Obviously a few people have issues, but people largely rave about them and even prefer them over other budget hubs (surly, soma, etc.). Its not as if you are taking a huge risk by owning them. I've owned Phil products with issues too...in particular, a BB that lasted about 1500 miles (on dry roads) before it was completely trashed. Its easy to find threads on BF about damaged Phil hubs. I found this one in about 15 seconds.
    Damaged threads on my Phil hub - Problem / No Problem ?

    FWIW, you would have to destroy more than 3 pairs of Formulas to equal the cost of one set of Phils...its exceedingly unlikely that this will ever happen. The OP asked if Phils were the best for the money. The bottom line is that you are mostly paying for a fashion accessory with Phils. A Formula hub (even with the stock bearings) is 99.9% as likely to do what Phil hubs do, and cost less than 1/3 as much. Additionally there are a multitude of hubs that cost more than Formulas and less than Phils, that will work just as well. At any rate, buying good functional non-bling components will get you an equal (if not better) wheel. Put the rest of your money into getting a quality build.
    "Additionally there are a multitude of hubs that cost more than Formulas and less than Phils, that will work just as well."
    Aside from Formulas with phil bearings, would you mind listing some other quality hubs that in your opinion would do the job? Im going to be building up a wheelset almost identical to the OP and am finding this thread very interesting.

  25. #25
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Here's a good place to start.

    http://www.benscycle.net/index.php?m...&cPath=188_194

    Personally, I'd go for a pair of Diacompe Gran Compes.

    In addition to those on the above link, here are a few more.

    Miche makes nice hubs....
    http://www.businesscycles.com/thub-miche.htm

    Surly makes bombproof hubs, although people report bearing issues with these. I have several pairs and they are fine. http://www.surlybikes.com/parts.html

    Soma hubs are probably fine, but very few people seem to own them. They look nice!
    http://www.somafab.com/hubs.html

    IRO hubs are made by formula, possibly with a bearing upgrade (not sure about this), but they look very nice and are extremely popular.
    www.irocycle.com

    White industries has a new track hub. Its undoubtedly very good, but the proprietary cog/hub interface is new and untested.
    http://www.whiteind.com/trackhubset.html

    Another option is to buy a modified disc front hub and bolt a cog on it. I've done this and its a really great option for offroading, because there are no threads to strip.
    http://www.londonfixiebike.co.uk/intro.html


    There are probably a few other options that I am forgetting. Oh yes, Level, Paul, Campy...I know less about these.

    You may want to buy a pair of hubs, but theres no reason to do this. For example, you can find very durable road hubs that are much lighter, as durable, and potentially higher quality than track front hubs for less money. Shimano road hubs are a good example.
    Last edited by mihlbach; 08-21-08 at 07:11 PM.

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