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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 01-04-09, 02:06 PM   #1
xdrmusclex
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NEW chain noise problem

I just put a KMC K710SL chain on my 06 Bianchi Pista. I have read other posts that there is some noise, but mine is ridiculous!! when I accellerate, the chain does not appear to engage on the cog very well (kinda looks as though it is snapping into place).

It is a 1/8 chain and apparently the pista has a 3/32 drivetrain, but I wouldnt think this would matter all that much. I lubed the hell out of the chain with white lightning but to no avail? With the old z410 chain there was no noise, now it is really crappy sounding

What the hell is wrong!
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Old 01-04-09, 02:38 PM   #2
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from what i understand(never actually done this myself) a 1/8 chain on a 3/32 drivetrain will add some extra noise regardless.
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Old 01-04-09, 03:01 PM   #3
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if you didn't replace your chainring and cog at the same time the noise is due in part to wear on those components and no wear on your chain causing them to not mate perfectly. this will improve with time but the general rule of thumb is to replace your drivetrain as a whole at the same time.
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Old 01-04-09, 03:41 PM   #4
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+1.
It is also very likely that you left the old chain on too long and now your cog is worn. The new chain doesn't mesh with the worn cog..hence the noise. You need to get a new cog and replace your chain more regularly.
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Old 01-04-09, 04:51 PM   #5
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710s are going to be louder than the 410s you replaced... not sure why it happens but i've seen that happen firsthand on a few occasions. could be the plate design, or less flex, or something.

either way, check your chainline, inspect your drivetrain for wear, and if it's really a problem, get a different chain (possibly in 3/32).
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Old 01-04-09, 05:05 PM   #6
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if you didn't replace your chainring and cog at the same time the noise is due in part to wear on those components and no wear on your chain causing them to not mate perfectly. this will improve with time but the general rule of thumb is to replace your drivetrain as a whole at the same time.
If you replace your chain before it gets very worn, you wont have to replace your drivetrain very often, certainly not each time you get a new chain. It's only if you let your chain get stretched way out that it starts wearing down your chainring and cog to accomodate it's new length.

It sounds like in this case the drivetrain might be pooched though
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Old 01-04-09, 08:13 PM   #7
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how often do u guys replace your chain? more or less than 1 time a year?
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Old 01-05-09, 07:46 AM   #8
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how often do u guys replace your chain? more or less than 1 time a year?
Every couple months. Usually when it feels as though my wheel is alot further back in the dropout than I remember it being, I replace it. Like I said, it's just 15 bucks but it'll save you from having to replace your cog and chainring as often
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Old 01-05-09, 08:23 AM   #9
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how often do u guys replace your chain? more or less than 1 time a year?
You should change it when 12 links are stretched beyond 12 1/16". Beyond that, the drive train will begin to wear very rapidly. The mileage people get out of chains varies, depending on riding conditions, chain type, gear ratio, and riding style, but in relatively dry, clean conditions you should expect to get at least 1500-2000 miles out of a chain...probably more. I've gotten as little as 400 miles out of a chain, but that was in really ****ty conditions. You can measure your chain with a metal ruler, but its easier with one of these....

http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?c...in%2FFreewheel

With proper chain maintenence, a freewheel or track cog should last through several chains...maybe 5 or 6 chains..I always loose track before I wear out the cog.

Last edited by mihlbach; 01-05-09 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 01-05-09, 09:48 AM   #10
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Wonderful new development, I was riding down the street, still with bad noise but hoping it would go away. Well, it got worse, the masterlink on my chain flew off and the the chain fell off! WTF~!!!! i guess i need to replace my cog and get a new masterlink?
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Old 01-05-09, 11:29 AM   #11
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I need to change my chain, any recommendations on a 3/32 chain?
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Old 01-05-09, 12:32 PM   #12
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this thread has been quite helpful
thank you~

one quick thing-
is it ok to replace only the cog and chain and not the chainring? i need to insprect the ring but was hoping to only replace the cog and chain
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Old 01-05-09, 12:54 PM   #13
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another chain question:

removing a link from an average 3/32 chain typically causes the rear axle to move forward how far in the track end? (or is that impossible to answer without knowing the bike's geometry all around?)
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Old 01-05-09, 01:19 PM   #14
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another chain question:

removing a link from an average 3/32 chain typically causes the rear axle to move forward how far in the track end? (or is that impossible to answer without knowing the bike's geometry all around?)
According to Sheldon.

Adding or shortening a chain by 1 link will move the axle 1/2". Changing the tooth count on either gear will move the axle 1/4"
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Old 01-05-09, 05:39 PM   #15
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According to Sheldon.

Adding or shortening a chain by 1 link will move the axle 1/2". Changing the tooth count on either gear will move the axle 1/4"
thanks!
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Old 01-05-09, 07:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
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According to Sheldon.

Adding or shortening a chain by 1 link will move the axle 1/2". Changing the tooth count on either gear will move the axle 1/4"
Not exactly. The difference of one tooth on either your cog or ring will move the axle 1/8". For example, subtracting a cog tooth decreases the circumference of the cog by 1/2 inch. The chain only goes half way around so the chain has 1/4" less contact with the cog. That gives you 1/4" of slack. Divide that in half again to account for the upper and lower parts of the chain and you have 1/8".
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Old 01-05-09, 09:23 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
Not exactly. The difference of one tooth on either your cog or ring will move the axle 1/8". For example, subtracting a cog tooth decreases the circumference of the cog by 1/2 inch. The chain only goes half way around so the chain has 1/4" less contact with the cog. That gives you 1/4" of slack. Divide that in half again to account for the upper and lower parts of the chain and you have 1/8".
Mihlbach, he's not talking about going with a smaller cog or ring, he's talking about removing a link from the chain.

The length from center of one roller to the center of the next is 1/2". When you remove a link, you have to remove "two links" - a set of inner and outer plates (unless you cheat with a half link) - which removes 1" from your chain. That translates into 1/2" from both the top and bottom of the chain (between the chainring and cog), moving your axle 1/2".

Edit: I just realized that bidaci was also talking about removing a tooth. And your reasoning on that matter seems sound. Amen.
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Old 01-05-09, 10:39 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by xdrmusclex View Post
It is a 1/8 chain and apparently the pista has a 3/32 drivetrain, but I wouldnt think this would matter all that much. I lubed the hell out of the chain with white lightning but to no avail? With the old z410 chain there was no noise, now it is really crappy sounding

What the hell is wrong!
My good man i am afraid it does in fact matter. Easiest thing would be to just get a 3/32 chain. The wear issues that people are mentioning could be a factor as well as an unevenly worn drive-train (like one with a new chain and super worn components) can cause a good amount of noise.

For reference I tend to change my chain every three to five months depending. I have access to a chain checker which makes life easy, but yeah I'm a little anal about my chain.
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Old 01-06-09, 06:03 AM   #19
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well, problem solved!!!!

i decided to put a 1/8 cog on rather than a 3 3/32 chain (the k710sl is just too sweet!) and man oh man is my drivetrain smoooooooooth!!
(though i was disappointed R&A cycles would not exchange my chain, they just wanted to charge me $25 for a z410! Dixon's gave me the cog for $10!)

the switch definitly made a change for the better!

lessons I learned:
1) a 3/32 cog will NOT work with a 1/8 chain. do not even try

2) rear cogs are very very difficult to get off! (i had to put it in a vise and turn the wheel, and even then it was tough)

thanks for all your help!
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Old 01-06-09, 06:27 AM   #20
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Not exactly. The difference of one tooth on either your cog or ring will move the axle 1/8". For example, subtracting a cog tooth decreases the circumference of the cog by 1/2 inch. The chain only goes half way around so the chain has 1/4" less contact with the cog. That gives you 1/4" of slack. Divide that in half again to account for the upper and lower parts of the chain and you have 1/8".
You are right, my bad. It was a typo on my part, 1 tooth on the cog is only 1/8, not 1/4. Had to admit my mistake as we know Sheldon couldn't have been wrong!
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Old 01-06-09, 06:39 AM   #21
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lessons I learned:
1) a 3/32 cog will NOT work with a 1/8 chain. do not even try
nice work, but, you just got a new cog as per everyone's recommendations, and replacing the old, worn cog is probably what made all the difference. you most definitely can run a 1/8" chain on 3/32" cogs/chainrings. after all, you probably still have a 3/32" chainring on up front, right?
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Old 01-06-09, 07:19 AM   #22
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Move on to the ****ing metric system already!
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Old 01-06-09, 07:20 AM   #23
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Move on to the ****ing metric system already!
maybe obama will have us transition
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Old 01-06-09, 07:45 AM   #24
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He ain't gonna do ****.
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Old 01-06-09, 03:49 PM   #25
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lessons I learned:
1) a 3/32 cog will NOT work with a 1/8 chain. do not even try
You apparently didn't learn much. Your problem is solved because you swapped out your worn cog. A 3/32 cog will work with a 1/8" chain on a singlespeed drive train. Anybody who tells you different is misdiagnosing the problem.
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