soundz

I recently grabbed a Raleigh Record out of the dumpster and trying to make it into a fixie. The BB has been giving me issues, however. I am trying to replace the cottered cranks that it came with some newer cranks. The easiest way to do this according to Sheldon Brown is to replace the spindle. See photo below:



The top spindle is the original Raleigh one, the one in the middle is from a 2000'ish Pacific mountain bike, the 3rd one is from a 80's road bike.

According to Sheldon Brown, if the digit on the spindle is a "7" (as the middle spindle is), then it should work on a Raleigh. https://www.sheldonbrown.com/raleigh26.html#cotterless ... But it doesn't work. The length of "A" is about 3mm too short on the middle spindle and when I put it on the bike, the BB cup screws in too much leaving no thread left to put on the locknut. The length of "A" on the bottom spindle is even shorter, so it's even worse.

As far as I can think of, here are my choices:

a) Someone please sell me a spindle that fits.
b) Just use the cottered cranks & spindle that came with the bike.
c) Buy a Phil Wood Bottom Bracket with 26TPI threads for the Raleigh ~$150+
d) Find some LBS that can tap my BB shell so I can use a more modern BB.
e) Put the Raleigh back together and sell it. Get another project bike with the money.

What's the best choice?

brooklyn_bike

first thing i'd try is taking the original BB spindle to the friendliest LBS and checking through their surplus of BB spindles. they can help you match the width or might even have some old raleigh noncottered BBs they'll sell you cheap. if that doesn't work - i bet harris cyclery has what you need - they specialize in old raleigh stuff and come recommended by the late great sheldon brown. **also note the spindle length that will give you a straight chain line** hope that helps...

https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/hub.html

soundz

Both are awesome ideas .. I'll give some LBSs a try this week!

grolby

e), though it would be a miracle if you got enough money from selling a Raleigh Record to build anything more suitable. If you want to make a fixed gear conversion and the first bike that comes your way is a Raleigh Record, that's a sign that it isn't time yet.

JohnDThompson 

I agree with others here that your best bet is finding a LBS that'll let you paw through their spindle collection until you find one that works. Failing that, try to find an EDCO threadless cartridge bottom bracket (there may be other threadless brands that would work; I'm only familiar with EDCO's):

NormanF

Have the LBS tap out the bottom bracket shell to 24 TPI so it will take a modern bottom bracket. You other option is to get a 26 TPI Phil Wood bottom bracket - which is very nice but also expensive.

soundz

I'm thinking I can get at least $50 for it if I clean it up, then buy some old Schwinn in the similar price range that is easier to work on. I don't care if the bike is a POS, the project is mostly for messing around and learning, which I have already done a lot of with the Raleigh.

soundz

Did a search for threadless bottom bracket on Google and came up with a bunch of economical choices, though I'll have to find one with a length that won't throw off the chainline too much:

https://www.google.com/products?hl=en...num=1&ct=title

The YST ones don't seem to be very well regarded, however. Another issue is that they are all 68mm and the Raleigh is more like 73mm shell. Can I stick some washers in there to make up for the 5mm difference? Thanks for the suggestion.

soundz

According to the Harris Cyclery web site, they have run out of most sizes and don't want to be contacted about sizes not posted on their web site:

https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/botto...ets.html#axles

NormanF

If its a museum quality restoration you want, no bike shop has NOS parts. Even my Schwinn Black Phantom uses repop parts. I know purists don't like it but a completely original restoration is pointless. The parts aren't readily available.

soundz

Nope, nothing like that .. from my understanding the Raleigh Record is like the lowest end model which is not worth restoring. My main goal to spend as little money as possible to build a rideable fixie I can mess around with to see if I like it and learn something in the process. So far I have spent $0 except on some tools which I need anyway.

REMspeedwagon

i think you should make the og cottered cranks work.
i'd replace the old cotter pins and bb spindle bearings asap.
new cotter pins will keep the cranks tight.
the original bearing races will probably crumble after a few miles of riding,
find a cartridge-type bearing to replace the original loose-ball.

since one side of the bb spindle is longer you can put
the drive side crank on the short end and mess with
the chainline by tapping the crank in or out.
and once you're done with all the adjusting you can hammer the cotter pins in.
sure it's not a clean way.. but it works with what you've got.

and now hope the chainring won't go out of wack.

soundz

I guess I could do with using the cottered cranks (option B in my original post), though I wanted to go with something more modern. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure why the original bearing races will crumble if I just keeping all the original crank/BB in tact? I could replace the races, but the only option I have is Phil Wood ($50 for mounting rings + $116 for BB) since old Raleigh's have 26TPI threading. That's the only way I can really think of to put in cartridge-type bearings w/o tapping out the BB shell.

soundz

Had one more idea which has no cost involved ... It would make use of 2nd spindle on the photo I originally posted. My thought is to take the drive train side BB cup and shave off 1-2mm off with a dremel. This "should" give me a tighter fit against the bearing and expose enough thread on the left side cup for the lock nut.

I'll give this a try tomorrow unless I come back tomorrow and find 10 replies screaming at me not to.

JohnDThompson 

Not sure about other brands, but with the EDCO you can simply slide the whole cartridge in the shell to get whatever chainline you need.

soundz

How does it stay put in the BB shell? Does it just press hard enough against the shell to not move around?

Jimmy

JohnDThompson 

It uses eccentric cups (see the second picture I posted above. You line up the cups so they're at their narrowest (they have markings for this), slide the cartridge into the shell and rotate the cups so they grab the shell.

griftereck

i have narrowed bottom bracket shells on old Raliegh 20s and Grifters.
There bb shell is a tube. Not a lug. So theres no holes for the chainstays to mount. Would be more difficult on a road frame

you can get bb cartridges that are for a 73mm bb shell. thats nearly the width of old Raleigh bb shells. I seen some on Ebay for $13.
you could get a bike shop to recut the threads in the frame. shouldnt cost that much.

I have rethreaded Raleighs by screwing in a normal BB cup a little bit into the frame. Then out again. then clean out the frame. then go a little bit further. good to have the frame clamped into a vice. use a lot of oil. this is tough work. but costs nothing.
I have seen people saying this is not very good as some threads will be damaged. Not had a problem yet though

soundz

Ah, that is pretty slick. Too bad I can't find anything like that around anymore (online). The closest thing I found was a Prestine BB > https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/product-P...eads-16505.htm

It looks closer to the EDCO since it doesn't have tapered cups like the YST. I want to try some cheaper methods first but may give SJS Cycles a call if all fails. Thanks for the info.

Based on your response, I decided to look at my replacement spindle again. Guess what .. it is a "3" series spindle, not a "7" series. I got confused because there are markings on both sides of the spindle, one side has a "3", the other side has a "7".

Then I decided to search harder online, and guess what ... SUCCESS:

https://pedalpowered.amazonwebstore.c...m-Brackets.htm

Took measurements of my BB shell again .. it's a 71mm .. according to Sheldon Brown, a "5" series (5s-b) spindle should fit on a 71mm shell. The measurement of the middle part of the new to old spindle is pretty close (1mm off). So Sheldon Brown is right after all. I'm gonna order it and will post how it goes.

The only issue is going to be the chainline since it's a shorter spindle (overall length of the spindle is short by 6.5mm). But this is the least destructive method, so worth trying first. I still have other options in my back pocket.

Thanks for your inputs.

OrangeClownBike

the original setup will last pretty much forever if kept lubed up but cottered cranks are a pain.

another option is this one (scroll half way down).

I've used it on a R20 and it works fine (I did have to narrow the shell from 78 to 68mm). From memory the BB will fit upto 73mm, though the left crank may get a bit close to the frame.

I ended up using a BB designed for a Brompton. The important thing is the plastic end cups.

stryper

I would recommend ditching the whole original setup in favor of one of these:

https://www.dp76.com/products/truvati...ell-conversion

Then you can just run any newer 68mm english thread bb and some newer cranks.

soundz

That is a novel approach. Didn't search too hard, but can't seem to find *** or Kinex around anymore, though I see some other plastic cup bottom brackets at SJS.

BTW, I was able to order a cotterless spindle that "should" fit into the original BB setup, so we'll see what happens.

soundz

I thought those just fit in over-sized BMX type shells?

bbattle

I had the LBS use their 68mm tap to cut new threads in my old Raleigh bb. We put in an old Shimano cartridge and it fit perfectly. Don't recommend this for expensive, collector's bikes but for a cheap frame, why not.

soundz

SUCCESS! thank you all for helping