Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1
    Lifer vegipowrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    250
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Editorial on bike civility, discuss

    This is a call to arms for cyclists. Actually, a call to civility. It is written to be NY specific, but I think it's universal to anyone on a two wheeled, human-powered vehicle anywhere in the US and possibly Europe. I want see what the SS/FG folk have to say since I think we are both the solution and problem.
    Read This
    Discuss.

  2. #2
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Athens, Ohio
    My Bikes
    Fuji Track, Half built 70s Azuki
    Posts
    1,568
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    his points he makes on page 3 seem pretty legit. I run red lights a lot, but typically not at major intersections like he suggests and unless i can clearly see both ways, i won't fly through one.

  3. #3
    Lifer vegipowrd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    250
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I guess I feel like what he is really getting at is the same sort of tension that skateboarding faced years ago. What had been only an extreme sport was then moved to safe, city sponsored skate parks. Kids all wore helmets and ESPN reported the Xgames. What was the last time Glen Freedman took pictures of kids skating. Some folks thought it was great, others missed the danger. The article hits the point that we can't have it both ways, that we either need to take our rightful place as a mode of transportation or simply stay a subculture.

  4. #4
    Large Member Geordi Laforge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,497
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I see people tearing it up on skateboards and bmx bikes all the time -- and not at sanctioned skate parks in a city with a handful of excellent parks.

  5. #5
    thread derailleur erichsia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    beyond Thunderdome
    My Bikes
    82 Bianchi ECO Pista, Pake, Kilo TT, some *** bmx i found underneath an old house
    Posts
    1,095
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by vegipowrd View Post
    I guess I feel like what he is really getting at is the same sort of tension that skateboarding faced years ago. What had been only an extreme sport was then moved to safe, city sponsored skate parks. Kids all wore helmets and ESPN reported the Xgames. What was the last time Glen Freedman took pictures of kids skating. Some folks thought it was great, others missed the danger. The article hits the point that we can't have it both ways, that we either need to take our rightful place as a mode of transportation or simply stay a subculture.
    Ha. Before the current fixed gear trend, bicycles were long seen as a legitimate mode of transportation. They're still seen as one now. Skateboarding has always been a niche market, even to this day, which has never been true about bicycling. I know about 3 people who never learned how to ride a bike, can't say the same about skateboarding.

    As far as Glen Friedman is concerned, that's just an artist moving forward with his work and not becomig stagnant. He moved away from shooting skateboarders long before ESPN hit the scene. Look at most of his recent shots he's made available for public consumption. Most of it has nothing to do with the inherent "danger" of the subject matter.

  6. #6
    Large Member Geordi Laforge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    1,497
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    The complexity that comes with dense urban environments makes consensus quite impossible. Perhaps the handful of regular cyclists in Fayetteville, Arkansas can come together and decide to ride nice, but good luck with a city of eight million people.

  7. #7
    Live without dead time
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,137
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I don't signal, ever. It's dangerous as hell.

    Other than that, it seems pretty new york centric so I can't really comment.
    Rich

  8. #8
    helmet brake jakerock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn
    My Bikes
    Kilo TT
    Posts
    625
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I understand where he is coming from... You have to have a balance though.
    Expecting returns on your civility in NYC traffic is a suckers bet if I ever heard one.
    But "Dont be a jerkface" is a good attitude on and off the bike.

    I have to admit, when I have the green light and am in a bad mood, it is pretty satisfying to scatter some jaywalkers!!!

    Anger rolls like this: TAXI > BIKE > PEDESTRIAN.

    Get rid of cabs and the bicyclists will be nicer to pedestrians.

  9. #9
    Live without dead time
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    2,137
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by jakerock View Post
    I have to admit, when I have the green light and am in a bad mood, it is pretty satisfying to scatter some jaywalkers!!!
    that's my perspective on the roadways. Don't interfere with people who have the right of way, and expect the same in return. I'll pretty much ignore any road signal I can as long as I can do it without anyone else having to alter their course one bit. In that case I feel more or less justified (to myself of course, I don't have to justify it to anyone else) in doing whatever so long as I don't inconvenience or endanger the people who rightly should be going through at that moment.
    Rich

  10. #10
    Senior Member aMull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Toronto
    My Bikes
    Leader 735TR 09 58cm 46/17
    Posts
    1,777
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ^ My philosophy as well. I break the laws in a respectful manner.

  11. #11
    helmet brake jakerock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn
    My Bikes
    Kilo TT
    Posts
    625
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Even in their unlawfullness, the Canadians are still sort of polite.
    Thats awesome.

  12. #12
    Senior Member skeletor3000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Portland, OR
    My Bikes
    Cannondale R600 CAAD5, 1973 Takara, 2009 Mercier Kilo TT
    Posts
    179
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Problems seem to arise when people break the rules but don't keep in mind that they're breaking the rules.

    I run red lights, etc. all day long but I sure as hell don't expect anybody, in a car or otherwise, to be looking out for me, especially when breaking the rules.

    I will say, though, that other bikers are the biggest hazard I see on the road. Some meander in and out of their lane and don't realize there's people behind them trying to figure out how to pass until someone yells or honks. Some sidewalk riders roll right out into the crosswalk because they don't hear any cars. Sidewalk riders are the worst. Even walking around them is a pain because a lot of them around here don't even try to favor pedestrians... it's the same "I'm bigger, get the **** outta the way" attitude a lot of cars seem to have.

  13. #13
    Senior Member Sikbug's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    135
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I think the article missed a major type of bike rider. The take out delivery guy, more often than not in NYC these are the types of riders I see that blow through lights, ride on the sidewalks and ride the wrong way down the street. Even if the rest of us stop doing these things, a very large majority of bikers in the city won't stop. How can we fix that?

  14. #14
    Ths Hipstr Kills Masheenz cc700's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    seattle
    My Bikes
    tirove
    Posts
    8,544
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    nothing spells 'persuasive journalism' like comma splices.

  15. #15
    helmet brake jakerock's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn
    My Bikes
    Kilo TT
    Posts
    625
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sikbug View Post
    I think the article missed a major type of bike rider. The take out delivery guy, more often than not in NYC these are the types of riders I see that blow through lights, ride on the sidewalks and ride the wrong way down the street. Even if the rest of us stop doing these things, a very large majority of bikers in the city won't stop. How can we fix that?
    Thats an amazingly important point. Those guys will salmon up the one way in full gallop with those HUGE f'ing baskets and beat to hell rusty ass heavy bikes. (Brakeless freewheel) I am as afraid of those guys as I am of taxi's. Tired, overworked, underpaid, angry, and driving around.
    Not a good combination.

  16. #16
    Ths Hipstr Kills Masheenz cc700's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    seattle
    My Bikes
    tirove
    Posts
    8,544
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    you can't make everyone listen to you, you can only persuade the persuadable.

    i agree with him for anyone who has the luxury of being responsible- which is near everyone that has a bike of their own that they don't make a living with- and i don't think he wrote this article for the overworked, underpaid, angry bike-as-profession types.

  17. #17
    Senior Member beeftech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn finally.
    My Bikes
    Bianchi San Jose, fixed
    Posts
    832
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thing problem is streets and their lights, signs and laws are not designed for bicycles, they are designed for cars; just as sidewalks are designed for pedestrians. That leaves cyclists no proper area to cycle. Even bike lanes are not the answer, they become parking spots, and extended sidewalks, and turning lanes. They mostly provide a false hope for the uneducated cyclist.

    Personally I would like to see pedestrians follow the law more often.
    I think they pose a bigger danger thinking that roads become the sidewalk once rush hour hits. Not mentioning they jay walk 24/7.

    Also take out food delivery guys are not cyclists, they work because they have no other choice. Where as most bike messengers do it because they love it, and are avid cyclists.
    I would say bike messengers are some of the best cyclists around, even if they throw to waste every law, they know what they are doing and by the time they blow past you they are already planning 5 blocks ahead.
    Last edited by beeftech; 03-08-09 at 09:16 PM.

  18. #18
    Ths Hipstr Kills Masheenz cc700's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    seattle
    My Bikes
    tirove
    Posts
    8,544
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i think messengers should be forced to wear hi vis jumpsuits and Devo hats so there's no mistaking who's out for a ride and being a jerk and who's being a jerk because it's a paycheck he's trying to make.

  19. #19
    FNG Jabba Degrassi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Toronto, ON
    My Bikes
    2008 IRO Angus, 2008 Jamis Exile 29er
    Posts
    2,313
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cc700 View Post
    i think messengers should be forced to wear hi vis jumpsuits and Devo hats so there's no mistaking who's out for a ride and being a jerk and who's being a jerk because it's a paycheck he's trying to make.
    As opposed to the guy in the H3 who blows through a stop sign because he's trying to get to work on time?

    Paycheque or no paycheque, on foot, on a bike, in a car, or in an 18-wheeler, if you can't pull whatever it is you're planning on pulling without forcing somebody else to stop or slow down, you're at being a jerk, and that's not cool.

    I'm with my fellow Torontonians on this one. If you can do it without interfering with the flow of traffic - pedestrian, cyclist, or otherwise - more power to you. If not, F U.
    velospace: Angus | Exile | Jake The Snake

  20. #20
    Ths Hipstr Kills Masheenz cc700's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    seattle
    My Bikes
    tirove
    Posts
    8,544
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    i totally agree; but stopping a messenger from breaking laws on the clock is about as easy as stopping an H3 with one of your prominently displayed fingers.

  21. #21
    Senior Member beeftech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn finally.
    My Bikes
    Bianchi San Jose, fixed
    Posts
    832
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Jabba Degrassi View Post
    Paycheque or no paycheque, on foot, on a bike, in a car, or in an 18-wheeler, if you can't pull whatever it is you're planning on pulling without forcing somebody else to stop or slow down, you're at being a jerk, and that's not cool.
    Just do the "I'm an ass" sign.

  22. #22
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Posts
    472
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cc700 View Post
    i think messengers should be forced to wear hi vis jumpsuits and Devo hats so there's no mistaking who's out for a ride and being a jerk and who's being a jerk because it's a paycheck he's trying to make.
    In a way I agree with this. After all, many trucking companies modify the 18 wheelers so they can't accelerate over the speed limit. This seems like a similar sort of thing.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •