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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 03-23-09, 06:31 PM   #1
LeaderBike
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New ideas for Leader bike for 2009 and 2010

Hello Bike Forum Members,

Leader Bike is looking at new things for the coming months and year. I was instructed by Leader Bike to ask some questions and get some opinions on the new product line.

Leader Bike is working on a project that will involve a steel 4130 double butted and heat treated frame. Top tube and down tube will have a special tear drop with octagonal shape. We will post images later. What we want to ask is your opinions on these options.

1. gussets or not? they would be welded next to the head tube and on the top of top tube and bottom of down tube.

2. frames will be made for 1" head tube. Aside from the lugged steel forks should we offer a 1" threaded carbon fork?

3. should we make any forks in thread less?

4. should our frames support only the A. NJS type crown or use the B. standard crown to fit almost any 1" headset?
(we have access to high end NJS headsets so there will be no problem there)

5. should we keep our A. 725TR style track geometry or move to the B. 720TR road geometry?

6. should we do the A. many color options as a preorder sale or B. start selling the frames when they arrive.

7. aside from standard black and white jewel metallic paint. What other colors do you like? green, blue, red, yellow, tan (wheat), emerald, etc.

7. do you prefer us to offer A. special metallic and glitter style paint jobs over the B. standard paint types?

8. would you rather have A. standard liquid clear coat or B. powder coat?

9 ghosted decals or no decals?

10. what is the max tire size you would be looking for?

I will have more questions later concerning our new crank sets, bars, and other parts that will be available. soon you can order your complete bike with your options choices from Leader direct.

We want to make Leader Bike your first and only choice in quality, looks, and price.

I know these are a lot of questions. Any comment is appreciated.

Brian

Last edited by LeaderBike; 08-20-09 at 03:16 AM.
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Old 03-23-09, 06:35 PM   #2
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im in before someone suggests quality.

i think something for me to test would be a good idea. i want to know whats really going on myself.
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Old 03-23-09, 06:38 PM   #3
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the pre order color choices seemed to be a hit so i would go for that.

and as a standard color wheat is always pretty classy so that would be a good option.
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Old 03-23-09, 06:48 PM   #4
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No gussets or waterbottle mounts. Leave the tubing nice and clean.

I'm only interested in threadless, but I know a lot of people on here like threaded.

I probably would only consider a steel fork. Carbon doesn't seem to go with a steel bike like this in my mind.

No decals or any branding.

Max tire size most on here use is 28mm width. 25mm seems to be pretty standard for bikes that are being used around town.

Use a standard crown that will accept ISO threaded headsets.

integrated seatclamp in the seat tube would be nice.

Just my .02
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Old 03-23-09, 08:27 PM   #5
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What about making the threadless fork for ISO headset and the threaded for NJS? Leader Bike can offer both fork options in steel and carbon. I am thinking chromolly as the material for the carbon fork steer tube.

Brian
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Old 03-23-09, 08:38 PM   #6
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1. YES gussets are cool and make for a stronger bike for doing fun stuff on!

2. 1 1/8 steer tube for sure...lets you use larger tubing for tt/dt

3. yes threadless! function>form

4. I don't know what this means...but I like King headsets so you should allow this

5. 73ish Seat Tube and 75ish degree head tube

6. Do another preorder...maybe more crazy color choices though...custom multi colors (like pattern) maybe? chrome finish, etc....animal prints?

7. I like old school NJS style patterns...but for solid colors, just a good smooth metallic w/ lots of clear coat for good luster and depth

7. do you prefer us to offer A. special metallic and glitter style paint jobs over the B. standard paint types? YES

8. Real clear coat makes for a much more beautiful coat of paint.

9/ stickers over paint so they can be removed...or maybe sticker pack w/ the bike so owner can apply them at their discretion

10. 32c all around for road riding!



PM me or email me if you want more of my ideas lol...i have my ideal bike built in my mind for street riding and it's a killer idea
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Old 03-23-09, 08:51 PM   #7
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I guess you are leaning to make a fgfs frame.

colors, strength, no decals, some good geometry, wider tire clearance. like a 32
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Old 03-23-09, 09:08 PM   #8
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-No gussets
-Threadless please (1 1/8) preferably
-Make the frame clean, no cable mounts, water bottle mount, etc
-make the rear fit atleast a 700x28
-Nice and tight geometry no ugly up-slope
-Don't do the logo on it, I'd love to see it with removable sticker logos.
-I really think a lot of people are swaying away from the threaded, though it looks good and all function over fashion!
-I'd like to see a light grey color (similar to bareknuckles)
-Make carbon (wound up fork ) an option but i'm alright with a steel fork
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Old 03-23-09, 09:17 PM   #9
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celeste for sure..yea celeste..with optional bianchi pista concept stickers..black fork as well!!
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Old 03-23-09, 09:28 PM   #10
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***ignore the waterbottle**


this is a general idea of what I would want to see


-straight bladed, thick legged fork for stiffness and strength jumping curbs
-big oversized tubes for combating dents from cabs and phantom doors
-steep headtube for snappy steering
-lax seat tube angle for wheelies! (also just more comfortable position)
-tucked up rear wheel
-triple triangle for style points!
-longer top tube, designed to be used w/ 50mm stem (bmx stem/bars for example) gives barspin clearance...effective cockpit will be same length as a normal sized frame


I think this bike would be a blast to ride, it would look incredible, and be extremely effective for daily use in the city for commuting/courier use
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Old 03-23-09, 09:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iansmash View Post


***ignore the waterbottle**


this is a general idea of what I would want to see


-straight bladed, thick legged fork for stiffness and strength jumping curbs
-big oversized tubes for combating dents from cabs and phantom doors
-steep headtube for snappy steering
-lax seat tube angle for wheelies! (also just more comfortable position)
-tucked up rear wheel
-triple triangle for style points!
-longer top tube, designed to be used w/ 50mm stem (bmx stem/bars for example) gives barspin clearance...effective cockpit will be same length as a normal sized frame


I think this bike would be a blast to ride, it would look incredible, and be extremely effective for daily use in the city for commuting/courier use
I am reading all this very closely. Now I am thinking maybe we should do two models. one for the type Ian wants with gussets and everything else to make a super strong frame with bmx style fork (maybe frame in steel and fork in aluminum) and make the tear drop steel frame as clean as possible. What about the head tube? I feel maybe the 1-1/8" will not be as sellable as the 1". There would be no problem offering both thread less and threaded but will need to be 1". I have seen many 1-1/8" steel frames fail in the market. also there really aren’t many oversize tube sets other than mtb style steel frames but they are very heavy. I know Leader was talking about keeping weight of the frame around 4.5lb to 5.5lb.

Brian
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Old 03-23-09, 09:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigcraigcraig View Post
the pre order color choices seemed to be a hit so i would go for that.

and as a standard color wheat is always pretty classy so that would be a good option.
In the works but this time more metalic style paint jobs.
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Old 03-23-09, 09:52 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by LeaderBike View Post
I am reading all this very closely. Now I am thinking maybe we should do two models. one for the type Ian wants with gussets and everything else to make a super strong frame with bmx style fork (maybe frame in steel and fork in aluminum) and make the tear drop steel frame as clean as possible. What about the head tube? I feel maybe the 1-1/8" will not be as sellable as the 1". There would be no problem offering both thread less and threaded but will need to be 1". I have seen many 1-1/8" steel frames fail in the market. also there really aren’t many oversize tube sets other than mtb style steel frames but they are very heavy. I know Leader was talking about keeping weight of the frame around 4.5lb to 5.5lb.

Brian


For the frame design that I am looking for, weight is not the biggest issue. The oversize tubes that VOLUME uses on their cutter are very desirable. They are heavy, yes, but they are very strong. This type of strength is great for those times when you take a nasty spill or when you lock up 10+ times a day on signs and bike racks.

Also, STEEL is essential. Aluminum, I find, is harsh on the streets and fatigues much easier than steel does. My 725TR has held up immaculately, especially against the abuse I have thrown at it, but I do baby it in many situations, to prevent unnecessary damage to the tubing. I am also currently running a steel fork, which has made it a bit more comfortable on the street. I trust steel much more than aluminum to ride around on after denting.


The bike I imagine will be popular with the hip crowd due to style, the practical crowd due to it's vast array of applications, and the couriers because it's low priced, rides like a banshee and most of all, holds up to the abuse of the daily grind.

This is the type of bike that you can ride to work in style on every day, lock up around town on the weekend and win alleycat races on every so often.






EDIT

Oh and in regards to 1 1/8" threadless. This is the most popular size IMO due to availability of replacement forks (some people will want to run aftermarket forks inevitably) and also stems. You can find any length, any rise stem in 1 1/8 steer tube.

Also, the larger the headtube, the more surface area to allow for larger diameter down and top tubes
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Old 03-23-09, 09:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Critical Jeff View Post
I guess you are leaning to make a fgfs frame.

colors, strength, no decals, some good geometry, wider tire clearance. like a 32
How do you all feel about the 725TT geometry. I know there is a small slope going down to the the seat tube.
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Old 03-23-09, 09:56 PM   #15
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No slope! I get annoyed when I see the slope on my 725.
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Old 03-23-09, 09:59 PM   #16
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Pursuit style geometry is definitely the most appealing


I kind of have this pet peeve w/ my 725TR where I wish the top tube was connected higher on the seat tube to give an even better aesthetic


Hell, if you guys remade the 725TR geometry in a steel oversize tube bike, i'd buy it in a heartbeat...i jsut feel so bad locking my poor 725tr w/ custom color up to street signs on windy days...it's held up well so far, but it's only a matter of time before it gets a nasty scratch in it
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Old 03-23-09, 10:13 PM   #17
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Summery

Ok from what I understand here so far. Two models:

Frame A. Pursuit style geometry Steel 4130 DB frame (4.5lb to 5.5lb) with tear drop tube sets, fully horizontal even top tube, integrated seat clamp on frame. many desirable paint options with clear coat powder coat finish, fit for sure from a 700 x 23 to 28 tire, 1" head tube to fit both thread less and threaded forks.

Frame B Steel 4130 DB frame with oversize tube sets, 1-1/8" head tube to fit strong BMX style fork or any other fork with 1-1.8" steer tube and proper length and rake, gussets all over, maybe even dirt jump style dropouts, geometry will be the same as bike A.

If I missed anything let me know.

Brian
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Old 03-23-09, 10:18 PM   #18
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Ok from what I understand here so far. Two models:

Frame A. Pursuit style geometry Steel 4130 DB frame (4.5lb to 5.5lb) with tear drop tube sets, fully horizontal even top tube, integrated seat clamp on frame. many desirable paint options with clear coat powder coat finish, fit for sure from a 700 x 23 to 28 tire, 1" head tube to fit both thread less and threaded forks.

Frame B Steel 4130 DB frame with oversize tube sets, 1-1/8" head tube to fit strong BMX style fork or any other fork with 1-1.8" steer tube and proper length and rake, gussets all over, maybe even dirt jump style dropouts, geometry will be the same as bike A.

If I missed anything let me know.

Brian

triple triangle rear! i <3 that design even if it's not the best in theory...


The angles on the B bike are important...around 73 degree seat tube, 75 degree headtube, w/ a slightly long top tube length too...coupled w/ a short stem, it will equal the same cockpit length, but give clearance for tricks.
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Old 03-23-09, 10:43 PM   #19
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if you're doing pursuit geometry, the frames from hunter and DAB are a nice example. wishbone seatstays, shaped aero downtube, 1" threaded fork, tight wheelbase with clearance for 25s max. make the online geometry page updated for each year, if it's going to change.

if you're doing a trick/abuse bike, keep the gussets and burly features on it; don't let them migrate to the other bikes.

Last edited by chase.; 03-23-09 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 03-23-09, 10:57 PM   #20
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If you wanna sell a lot of bikes just duplicate the old cannondale track frames exactly. There was talk of this on another forum. They would sell like hot cakes as long as no changes were made.

Like so:


Last edited by jhaber; 03-23-09 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 03-23-09, 11:15 PM   #21
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I don't think cannondale would appreciate that.

And duplicating the look doesn't make it cannondale quality.
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Old 03-23-09, 11:16 PM   #22
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+1 on the cannondale track replicas
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Old 03-23-09, 11:50 PM   #23
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prepare to pay for those hand finished welds.
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Old 03-24-09, 06:58 AM   #24
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MIG welds(steel) are alot cleaner than TIG welds(alu),so no worries about the welds.
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Old 03-24-09, 09:02 AM   #25
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i think you've missed the point— the early 90s cannondale track couldn't be 'cloned' in steel, and all of those cannondales have alu tubing and hand finished welds. could you copy the geometry? sure. would it ride the same? unlikely.

there are plenty of nice track frames out there using steel tubesets to serve as an example. while it would be awesome to have caad3 track clones from BD, that's not really their pricepoint (or hasn't been so far).
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