lukewall

I'm not into the hipster bull***** either, but what they were doing looked really fun. I'm always down for that.

2wheelsgood

i'm not disputing the fact that they look like they're enjoying themselves. I'm just saying that the idea of a fixed gear team is ridiculous. sponsorship for mtn. biking, bmx, etc. makes sense. these people train and compete in real races and competitions. but getting a team together to make videos of each other doing skids down dewy roads and eating fish & chips is silly to me. and buying/selling a brand based on that is even sillier.

sp00ki

they do compete in races (as well as other events like freestyle dirtjumping, etc)-- that's why they're sponsored and on a team.
i was initially going to call you out for not even clicking the links, but i figured that would be wrong.

i have to stop giving out free credit...

not just that, but how many people have seen bootleg sessions? the fact that tom lamarche rides a charge is pretty valuable from a marketing standpoint.
remember, these guys have two jobs:

1) make awesome gear (they're constantly revising their stuff based on rider imput)
2) get riders to know that you made awesome gear (see this)

2wheelsgood

i'm referring to the fixed gear aspect of this exclusively.

lukewall

Sponsorship doesn't always have to deal with competition. If you're going to bring up skateboarding in a prev post....when is the last time you saw Mike Carroll, Daewon, or Pat ****!ng Duffy in a contest? And they're still getting checks from their sponsors? Sponsorship has more to do with promoting the brand and company than competition. Sponsorship actually makes sense for guys that do the kind of riding that regularly damages frames.

And if you know anything about skateboarding pre 1997, you know that a huge part of what's kept skateboarding alive in the early 90s is the smalltime, grassroots videos and the circulation of dub/bootleg VHS tapes. FG companies are just following a model that skateboarding has already put out but using the internet instead of VHS tapes.

Maybe you're just not part of their target audience. Not everyone buys cycling equipment based on performance or the team associated with them. I like Cannondale aluminum and it has nothing to do with Liquigas or Ivan Basso.

sp00ki

ok, then see the second part of my post.

you realize these guys do alley cats, right? they go to big sessions where everyone watches them land big stuff, right? end up in videos like b.l.s. and mash, right? ride with "high profile" riders (as corny as that sounds) like prolly and them, right? etc etc etc, right?
if fixed gear street riding had teams and sanctioned events, i'm sure they'd use them instead.
unfortunately they don't, so three of their eight riders aren't uci card holders. the others are though, and do ride on charge gear, which is why they have a riders page and videos.
eliminate fixed gear riders from the equation and it's still a viable concept (in your book); but that wouldn't make sense, as they do make bikes for urban riding as well.

+ what lukewall said.

PedallingATX

Charge is marketed to people who want their stuff to be "cool." I don't know how anyone could prefer their products over those of a company that has been around for much longer and has a much better reputation. only thing Charge has going for it is that cool factor, which IMO they are trying to hard for and it shows. Charge will be out of business in 2 years tops

bgblue1978

does anyone know how much the plug ti frames go for?

mugatu

$1,763.95

https://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Ch...me/5360041766/

2wheelsgood

to the OP,

the choice has been made clear. choose charge. spOOki and lukewall have made it quite clear. Charge's smalltime grassroots videos and alleycat riders are instrumental when trying to pick a product to purchase. not everyone buys based on performance so go with the target audience. go with Charge.

sp00ki

that is the most misinformed thing written in this post.
their ti frames alone are causing ripples whenever the topic comes up.

the only people who think their bikes are about cool factor are people who've only heard about them recently (or not at all).
trust me, these guys are not going anywhere.
https://www.google.com/trends?q=%22ch...ate=all&sort=0
see that upswing?
that's not fluff, that's genuine interest in a product that's doing things well AND differently.

not to mention this conversation is largely regional... the reason some people on this forum aren't familiar with charge is because certain people tend to know only what they see around them:
https://www.google.com/trends?q=%22ch...=0&sort=0&sa=N
ask someone riding in london to rank charge vs surly and they'll laugh.
if you research the brand prior to critiquing it (or live in areas where product diversity is more common), you'll know that quality is not second fiddle in their game. they make good bikes period-- they're just smart enough to market them well on top of that.

crushkilldstroy

It also depends on what type of shop he's going to open. If it's going to be an actual bike shop for normal people and not some bonehead hipster boutique, then most people are going to know the Surly name over the Charge name. Around the states at least, they've been around for longer and have the whole brand recognition thing going for them. Charge doesn't even sell a geared commuter for ****'s sake.

Edit - I guess they have a rig with flat bars and an internally geared hub, but my point still stands for the most part.

sp00ki

christ...

https://www.chargebikes.com/products/...tail.php?id=15
https://www.chargebikes.com/products/...tail.php?id=14

and not a commuter per se, but drooool:
https://www.chargebikes.com/projects/.../files/Skewer/

yes, you're wrong, but regardless-- why would you whine about geared commuters on a fixed gear/single speed forum? if OP wanted to ask about commuters, he would've asked the commuter forum, no?

oldfolksmashers

Let's see, since no one else has made any sort of explanation as to why they think you should carry what, I will.


Surly:
*Available to any shop with a QBP account as long as you abide by their MSRP policies.
*Stock is readily available, easy to get in your shop, and ships from the warehouse in Minnesota FAST. Product can leave same-day before 3pm in most cases.
*Margins are great.
*Product selection is great. They cover a wide variety of frames and offer completes as well.
*Warranty service is awesome
*The guys who work in the Surly division kick ass!


Charge:
*Not actively looking for new dealers in the USA
*Product ships from England (this means you will be spending THOUSANDS on shipping costs alone and will have long lead times for getting product on your shelves)
*Pricing fluctuates daily thanks to exchange rates and shipping costs



That alone should be enough to help you make a decision... I've been making brand decisions for four years now and I've been in the same boat a thousand times. There's more to it then which brand is cool and which isn't, and what people on the Internet want you to do. You've obviously got a lot to learn about running a shop, and we all wish you the best of luck! The more people on bikes the better IMO!

sp00ki

winner, basically.


(still want one though, so if you get distribution access holler at a nickle)

crushkilldstroy

The guy is asking me what I would carry in a bike shop, not what I would sell on a messageboard. Surly has more versatility in their offerings than either Charge or Swobo. Charge has even managed to pigeonhole itself in two separate markets, "urban" and cross country. Go with Surly for the entry level stuff, Salsa for a bit of an upgrade and a better selection of mountain stuff, and something like Specialized for the line that caters to the joe normal cyclists that don't know as much but want something nicer than a Target bike. It wouldn't hurt to carry a couple of Electras too or something along those lines.

And even though I corrected myself earlier about the geared options, I still think that 2 bikes with Alfines and flat bars still hardly counts as a geared category.

And apparently I need to read the rest of the thread before I hit reply anyways.

sp00ki

k.

PedallingATX

Surly will sell more than Charge. Period. And there is NOTHING regional about this conversation. There is nothing regional about taste, either. People all over are the same, the only differences between people are differences that occur from person to person on an individual basis. People from London are no different from people in Philly or Austin or wherever. You sound really ignorant by saying that "this is a regional conversation." Do you even know what that means? Does this conversation occur in separate regions or something?

sp00ki

of course it's regional. are you so arrogant to think that because you and your friends in texas know surly, everyone in the world knows surly? and if so, to the same degree?
did you see the links i posted? charge has a presence in england that they don't in the US. surly has a presence in the US that they don't in england.
i spelled it out for you with links to some pretty straightforward information. if your ISP is american, you're statistically far more likely to search "surly bikes" than "surly bikes"; if you're from england, japan and a few other nations, you're just as far more likely to search "charge bikes" than "surly bikes".

do you understand how that sort of thing works?
surly isn't coca-cola, you know...

beer slayer

Charge is IN STOCK at BTI. There's plenty of good stuff from smaller companies in the bike biz not everyone wants to buy from the 900 pound gorilia known as Quality. Soma has some fine bikes as well.

The thing that I would do is to stock a few brands. Some people are sheepish and they want the same old hat. Some guys don't want anything that their best freind has.

PedallingATX

Yes, I understand how it is regional on an INTERNATIONAL level. But within the US, it shouldn't matter. Surly is going to dominate in probably every US city, and I assume that OP's shop (or hypothetical shop) is in the US...

rodchenko

Great points you all making. Summarizing...
- I don't see anybody even mentioning Swobo...
- One thing about Charge is that I cannot find (at least in their website) where (and how) their bikes are manufactured. Probably in Taiwan, but why this info is not published.
- I want to offer the most reliable products
- I don't buy the marketing stuff behind Charge, but I'm sure it helps selling more bikes...
- I'm personally a Surly fan...
- Bike shop will be in Eastern Europe... so shipping/taxes is a critical factor
- I don't know what is a boutique shop, so probably not.
Thanks all for sharing your points of view!

sp00ki

and they say we americans are usacentric...

mangpress

only 50 of the Ti frames were made and i've not heard of a re-run.
though i havn't really been listening.

brandonspeck

I'd still take a Moots over those Charge Ti Road Bikes.
Those IG bikes that Charge sells look really awesome though. But again, if I were opening up a shop I would still go with Surly.

The shop I work at sells Moots, too.