carleton

Says people without degrees.

Wait till you get a mortgage, kids, car note, child support (yeah divorce happens), need insurance etc...

Look. A degree gives one a leg up. That's just how it is.

Don't get a degree. I don't really care. You are just one less person that I have to compete against for a job. Sorry, man. But that's the truth.

I have a degree. I'm a software engineer with 14 years of experience. I make way more than the average bear. Waaaay more. I enjoy my work. I get jobs with a degree that I wouldn't without one...even with the exact same level of experience.

carleton

Also...

Don't think that you guys would never compete against me for jobs. I used to work at an Apple retail store nights and weekends for fun, the discount, and extra cash. When the manager compared my resume with the ones of those without degrees who do you think he chose for the job?

EDIT: And if I got laid-off from my full-time job, whose job do you think I'd be applying for during the down time? That's right. The job of the guy without the degree because I'd probably be more qualified. That's just how it is.

carleton

I don't even have to click it to know that it's Quicksilver. I was around in 1986. I never saw people go all bike messenger crazy. Now Flashdance was a different story.

Fixter

Well I am a far shot older than 19. I have 3 degrees, a BA, and 2 associates(lol), and I just think that sure, your a computer tech, go for the degree dude, I did it for a couple years, trust me, not worth the money, for me at least. I just am saying this country is all crazy over college. F' that, if ppl donated the money they waste sitting around drinking and hooking up to public education, then everyone would know where they belonged after high school. The answer isn't more schooling, its BETTER schooling. Thats why I work 4 days a week at a grocery store and play in a band. I make enough to have nice things, but I'm not controlled by either job. Freedom is the key, if you want to be really happy, answer to nobody, make your own hours, who gives a **** about all the crap. Oh, one last thing, DON"T HAVE KIDS.

So as far as this thread is concerned, OP where are you from?

carleton

I'm not a "computer tech". I'm a Senior Software Engineer. Big difference. I don't install printers. I design and engineer software.

If you spent the time and money on 3 degrees just to work part time at a grocery store, the problem is not with the education system or the US. It lies with you. For most, playing in a band isn't a job it's an activity. H*ll the Governor of Maryland plays in a band.

Speaking of freedom:
The money...excuse me...salary that I get affords me and my family a h*lluva lot of freedom. Freedom to live where we choose. Freedom to eat good food. Freedom to enjoy the activities (like being in a band) that we enjoy.

Dude, we all have to work to get by. Some get paid more than others to do so.

trueno92

someone pls send this guy to Alaska.

Geordi Laforge

ok listen -- the original poster said he wanted to live in a place that "speaks english" and where he wont be "hassled with taxes." I am willing to bet he's from the middle of nowhere (possibly the south..?) and is a jr. republican gun-stroking NRA kinda dude. I doubt he would be happy living in Chicago and NYC - two of the most liberal and diverse cities in the US. If "speaking english" is a criteria (wtf?) and his life ambition is to be a messenger (ha), that means he'll be broke and have to live in a neighborhood where he is the minority and he will only hear people speaking spanish.

he'll be the biggest and most-disgruntled gringo ever. "I shouldnt have taken life advice from bikeforums! and my job sucks! I thought it would be like MASH!"

and next thing you know, he'll shoot up a school or something with his massive gun collection.

think people!

IllSpecialist

I don't care what anyone says.....you don't need a degree to be successful. Good old fashion hard work will get you far in life.

kcirick

I'm a graduate student working on Master's degree right now, and I wish I could try a messenger job. I'm not sure if I'll like it or not, but it would be really cool to be able to do it part time for a season or something. Unfortunately it is not possible because being a grad student is a full time job

kcirick

Statistics says you will have better chance of being successful if you have a degree. Sure hard work sometimes pays off, but it is rare and you often have to sacrifice a lot and for a long time to get to that same point.

Like many other people, I don't like hard labour that doesn't guarantee a success (plus, I like learning stuff that you wouldn't learn from being on streets - I also like learning stuff that I do learn on streets too)

2mtr

Alright, OP here. First off, I got a degree. To be honest, it's done me a whole lot of nothing except got me a job teaching English in South Korea. Insofar as that, it did get me LOTS of money. If you have a degree and can't find rewarding work here, fricking go to South Korea (or Japan or China or Thailand, etc) and you'll make bank.

Second, I'm not from the middle of nowhere, unless you count the Pacific Ocean as nowhere (cause I'm from Honolulu).

Third, being a bike messenger is no longer my highest aspiration. It was in college; so I got a job messengering (at possibly the most ****ty messenger service ever). That was fun, except 1) the owner-manager was a tool and didn't pay the riders and 2)I despise Honolulu.

Finally, and probably most importantly, I'm not necessarily moving for a job. I'm moving (or more like settling, since I haven't had a permanent address in over two years) to more fully participate in my society. I want to do a lot of things (an MA, community organizing, urban permaculture, etc), and messengering would be a way to pay a few bills and have fun. That would be my money job, so to speak, and a networking job. I am assuming, however, that most cities with the requisite culture and built environment to support a good messenger scene would have the things I'm looking for in a city. That's for another thread, however.

I'd move to Alaska, but I don't think there's a very viable messenger scene in Juno or Point Barrow, you know?

So, the serious suggestions I got were Chicago, D.C. and PDX?

BTW: when I said "speak English" and where I wouldn't be "hassled with taxes" I meant immigration-wise. Like, I tried to messenger in Sydney once, but all the operations were super-paranoid about hiring an American with no work visa.

SRTboy

You could always work at Jimmy Johns.

carleton

I never said that.

We can all name very successful people without degrees...
- Bill Gates
- Richard Branson
- Puff Daddy (hahaha)
- Etc...

And yes, we can all name unsuccessful people that WITH degrees.

The point is, a relevant degree opens up options. And options, my friends, mean the FREEDOM to choose. No options means that you have to take what you can get.

A degree helps...a lot. A relevant degree helps even more. But a degree doesn't guarantee anything.

CliftonGK1

My ex-wife has a BA and 2 Associate degrees, as well. She works at an inbound call center taking flak from irate credit card customers because she's afraid to enter the real world and get a "grown-up job", too.
Don't blame the school system, especially at the collegiate level. Professors aren't there to coddle you and stroke your bruised ego when you get a bad grade; they're there (in the entry level courses, at least) to weed out the students who refuse to put in the work necessary to continue to higher levels.
If you filled out the application at the grocery store with the same skill level you've expressed in this thread, I'm surprised they let you touch other people's food.

Meepers

I am guessing you went for one degree, didn't like it, went for another, didn't like it, and settled on a third just to be done with school. along the way you earned enough credits to get 2 Associates degrees.
that's fine if it wasn't worth the money for you, for carleton it was and for myself it was. i have no problem cutting that check each month (i did get a great interest rate though).


better schooling? try going to a different school. try switching out of one class and into another if the prof wasn't good. I've had terrible professors, so i got out of that class and into another one. i went to a good school, did you?

I think you just didn't give it a fair shake. playing in a band is great, i know a lot of guys who make their living only playing in a band. one problem, you don't make it by time you 30, you're not going to make it. you'll end up being another bar cover band, that is not respected, and you can trust me on that. i don't care if i know guys who play music a few nights a week and live off of that. they are playing some one Else's music and in the end, when they look to old to play to the 21-year-olds they will no longer get booked, then what? I'm not saying this is you, but kind of giving you a heads up on what i i have seen.

Freedom is key, but when i started to play more music i needed to upgrade gear and i wanted a new guitar. that cost money, i had to work more that took away my freedom. and if you have to work 4 days a week and you are playing in a band, your time is given to those things and you are not free. i bet you work the same if not more hours a week than i do, and make less money. I'm not saying i make a killing, but i make enough. I am not going to go out and but another Gibson (unless you have a good deal on something vintage. do you?), but i have enough to support myself and my girlfriend and still enjoy my life and the freedom my degree has given me.

Wow, i don't have kids, but don't even go there.

Oh and if i get laid off from my job, i will have more doors open for me. i can use my degree for a job, and take the jobs that i don't need one for, like working in a grocery store (and i already have that experience).

oh and to the OP if you really want to be a messenger, find a place you like and try it for a few years. if you don't like it, you can go back/go to school. and i hear the Army's hiring.

trueno92

Someone send this thread to Alaska.

Meepers

free smells!

2mtr

So... Chicago sounds nice. I'll give that a try.

College is lame, by the way. What you get is an ossified mindset and a bull**** piece of paper.

carleton

Hahahaha! I laugh every time I see that sign!

vegipowrd

That isn't a Southern thing it's a Libertarian thing. You can't tell me that western PA and Alaska don't love some guns.

Meepers

I don't know about Western PA, but Eastern PA has a lot of guns. a lot of guns.

Fahrenheist

Great, now I have to Google every apparent typo I come across.

schnee

I have a career that doesn't need a degree at all (visual design) but if I had one I'd probably be paid a hell of a lot more for the same amount of effort. I know my salary hasn't kept up with other people in my peer group with degrees.

Degrees open doors. I recommend them.

ManlyDude69

Chicago messenger weighing in

The weather can be absolutely atrocious... like your eyeballs freeze in the winter... summer is scorching hot to the point where you think you might die... and they don't call it the windy city for nothing... freezing rain happens...

The messenger companies are being hit hard by the recession and the general atmosphere is one of despair... punctated by brief bursts of enthusiasm when you actually make more than 10 dollars an hour... all the messenger companies are shady except the hard ones to get into... the ones you have to put at least 6 months as a messenger to work at... the rates are low... there is a downward cycle of competition where each company is lowballing the same clients and its killing the whole industry... you have to work with crack heads and ex-cons with no moral scruples about stealing... they go into buildings and get into trouble and then all messengers get punished for it...

there's nothing romantic about being a messenger... but it's really fun... those days you work non-stop and are just feeling the flow of the city... I'm trying my hardest to get out but having Bike Messenger on your resume doesn't look good at all... it's a hole you fall into that you fall in love with and you get addicted to the fresh air, excercise, freedom and feeling of invincibility and superiority....

Don't expect to make more than $12,000-18,000 a year... and chicago isn't cheap...

beeftech

Being a messenger isn't always as fun as it look's, which is why most of them only work for a few months. You have to be fit, fast, and know your way around the city. It will be hard on your body, and bike. You probably wont have insurance, so try to not get hit. You are a disposable employee, hundreds of people are ready to fill your spot at any moment, because they also "wanna be a messenger for a while".

The current economy isn't really helping anything either. Days are crazy up and down here in NYC at the moment, and January was scary as hell. So be prepared to have a variable pay check, some days just out right suck, and you cant do anything about it, the other days it's up to you to make your money one job at a time. Having a second income, or living with a better half who is the bread winner is the way to go.

If your smart, you'll realize that the ****ty weather days are the best days to make money.

I would not recommend this job to many people, if at all. It's a dangerous, uninsured, low paying, strenuous job.