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best USA city to start messengering in?

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best USA city to start messengering in?

Old 03-30-09, 07:33 PM
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and chicago winters can be rough -- especially if you're a courier outside all day for 5 months of winter and used to hawaii and dont know your way around the loop.
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Old 03-30-09, 07:50 PM
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I've been a messenger for two years and now all I dream about is a steady, decent paycheck, and health insurance. I have a girl that I love and I want to take care of her but I can't... my friends are buying houses and I'm barely scraping by... wasting my college degree.... If you wanna play at being a messenger go to a city... be a messenger for a couple of months... all the while be applying for real jobs... and when a real opportunity comes take it. Being a messenger is hard and really really dangerous and the crazy **** you pull all day no one knows about except for you... you are basically performing a ballet of death with no audience to appreciate it... but if appeals to you go for it... it hit the spot for me... I almost wish it hadn't
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Old 03-30-09, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Geordi Laforge
and chicago winters can be rough -- especially if you're a courier outside all day for 5 months of winter and used to hawaii and dont know your way around the loop.
i've lived in Seoul. I think I can handle Chicago. My parents couldn't (they bailed out of Arlington Heights in the 80's), but I think I can.
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Old 03-30-09, 08:47 PM
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I'm partners in an IS firm with four other people, three of which don't have degrees (I'm the only one with a B.S. that I only ended up getting in Dec '08), yet are all millionaires [except me... go figure] with the same type of background I have (super nerds who spent 23 hours a day in front of a computer learning various tech crap for the last 15 years). We all graduated HS in '96 and '97 and went straight to work in the Silicone Valley at various boutique tech firms in various specialties. We came together in about 2001 in the aftermath of the .com "crash" and started our own IS firm.

We're a pretty liberal and entrepreneurial bunch and firmly believe that anyone can make their way fine without a degree IF they want it bad enough. That said, when we hire people for permanent positions or even contract work we RARELY hire people without degrees. The only people, these days, that we will hire/contract with that don't have a degree are people who have been working in the industry for 15+ years. I see too many Stanford and Berkeley CS / IS degrees to take a chance on someone who doesn't have one, especially if they're in their 20s... unless they come with a strong recommendation or knowledge of a niche or emerging field with demonstrated proficiency.

Coming from someone who's 30 years old, who doesn't need a degree and didn't have one until four months ago and gets to see the resumes of people applying for 80k+ a year jobs and has input on hiring them my advice would be to get a degree... in a hard science or engineering discipline.
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Old 03-30-09, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by CliftonGK1
My ex-wife has a BA and 2 Associate degrees, as well. She works at an inbound call center taking flak from irate credit card customers because she's afraid to enter the real world and get a "grown-up job", too.
Don't blame the school system, especially at the collegiate level. Professors aren't there to coddle you and stroke your bruised ego when you get a bad grade; they're there (in the entry level courses, at least) to weed out the students who refuse to put in the work necessary to continue to higher levels.
If you filled out the application at the grocery store with the same skill level you've expressed in this thread, I'm surprised they let you touch other people's food.

Heh, you sound like a tolerant and relaxed person. I was talking about elementary/high school lvl education. I know you gotta weed out the good from the bad in college. I also believe most college is just an introduction into the debt system in this country that keeps ppl down from the get go. That everyone needs to be scared and complacent. And I don't know what kind of skills I have displayed here at all, ha, maybe they don't let me touch food.......
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Old 03-30-09, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Meepers
I am guessing you went for one degree, didn't like it, went for another, didn't like it, and settled on a third just to be done with school. along the way you earned enough credits to get 2 Associates degrees.


that's fine if it wasn't worth the money for you, for carleton it was and for myself it was. i have no problem cutting that check each month (i did get a great interest rate though).




better schooling? try going to a different school. try switching out of one class and into another if the prof wasn't good. I've had terrible professors, so i got out of that class and into another one. i went to a good school, did you?



I think you just didn't give it a fair shake. playing in a band is great, i know a lot of guys who make their living only playing in a band. one problem, you don't make it by time you 30, you're not going to make it. you'll end up being another bar cover band, that is not respected, and you can trust me on that. i don't care if i know guys who play music a few nights a week and live off of that. they are playing some one Else's music and in the end, when they look to old to play to the 21-year-olds they will no longer get booked, then what? I'm not saying this is you, but kind of giving you a heads up on what i i have seen.

Freedom is key, but when i started to play more music i needed to upgrade gear and i wanted a new guitar. that cost money, i had to work more that took away my freedom. and if you have to work 4 days a week and you are playing in a band, your time is given to those things and you are not free. i bet you work the same if not more hours a week than i do, and make less money. I'm not saying i make a killing, but i make enough. I am not going to go out and but another Gibson (unless you have a good deal on something vintage. do you?), but i have enough to support myself and my girlfriend and still enjoy my life and the freedom my degree has given me.


Wow, i don't have kids, but don't even go there.

Oh and if i get laid off from my job, i will have more doors open for me. i can use my degree for a job, and take the jobs that i don't need one for, like working in a grocery store (and i already have that experience).

oh and to the OP if you really want to be a messenger, find a place you like and try it for a few years. if you don't like it, you can go back/go to school. and i hear the Army's hiring.
Oh I went there, F' kids. And WTF do you know about music, HA, I know most programmers I know are the hippest and with it dudes going, so they must know all the ins and outs of MY industry. I have been in yours on and off for about 10 years now, and I don't pretend to know all about it, like I said, it helps to get certs and degrees in programming, but since the OP never mentioned that, then I gave blanket opinion that its a waste of time to get a degree. But I gotta say, the computer programmers/eng with degrees seem a bit bitter to me, divorce, car payments, kids, eww sounds terrible. but that's just my 2 cents. I love my easy freedom and relaxed life. me and my wife travel all over making ppl happy, with OUR music, recording our second album in the fall, I'm saying do it OP, buck the stupid American trend.

oh, and the bit about the army, priceless.
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Old 03-30-09, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Fixter
...me and my wife travel all over making ppl happy, with OUR music, recording our second album in the fall...




Just kidding, man. I wish you both the best.
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Old 03-30-09, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Fixter
A degree is way overrated. College isn't for everyone. I know to many ppl with degrees working at jobs they hate cause they hate what they got their degrees in.Its stupid to think that just cause you went to college that your educated, and you will get all these great jobs and your life will rule, its just not true. Anyone can make a living doing things that don't need degrees,and that they love, just don't be scared to work your ass off to earn it, because there's always gonna be some ****face with a degree who thinks hes better than you because he got a D in calculus, HA.
Most people I know dont work in the area their degree specializes. The degree is just a prerequisite for many higher level jobs. That isnt to say you cant start at the entry level and work up, but its a longer route, and much sketchier with so many people graduating with degrees, essentially a leg up (if you are trying to get a job that *requires* a degree).

The second part I can get behind.
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Old 03-30-09, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by TheSodaJerk
Most people I know dont work in the area their degree specializes. The degree is just a prerequisite for many higher level jobs. That isnt to say you cant start at the entry level and work up, but its a longer route, and much sketchier with so many people graduating with degrees, essentially a leg up (if you are trying to get a job that *requires* a degree).

The second part I can get behind.
I totally agree. The key is to not cruise through college, but really pay attention and find the right major for you.

I went to college to study Mechanical Engineering. After 2.5 years of honors calculus, physics, statics, etc...and talking to real engineers I realized that I didn't like it. I just picked the major because I was good at math and science and that's what people who were good at math and science did.

I switched to Computer Science (in the College of Engineering). It was just as bad. Feeling the need for a career with interactions with people I switched to Finance in the Business school. That wasn't what I got. I finally settled on Management Information Systems which was perfect. Between switching majors and Co-Oping it took my 6 years to graduate. But I hit the ground running and haven't looked back since.

So, to elaborate. Having a degree isn't the entire answer. Having the right degree for you helps.

On a related note. A good friend of mine at the same school got a degree in Health Care Management. Worked for a year and realized that wasn't what he wanted. Went back to college and got a second bachelors degree in Computer Information Systems and he also has a good career going. He realized later than I did. But he DID realized and made use of that realization.
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Old 03-30-09, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Fixter
Oh I went there, F' kids. And WTF do you know about music, HA, I know most programmers I know are the hippest and with it dudes going, so they must know all the ins and outs of MY industry. I have been in yours on and off for about 10 years now, and I don't pretend to know all about it, like I said, it helps to get certs and degrees in programming, but since the OP never mentioned that, then I gave blanket opinion that its a waste of time to get a degree. But I gotta say, the computer programmers/eng with degrees seem a bit bitter to me, divorce, car payments, kids, eww sounds terrible. but that's just my 2 cents. I love my easy freedom and relaxed life. me and my wife travel all over making ppl happy, with OUR music, recording our second album in the fall, I'm saying do it OP, buck the stupid American trend.

oh, and the bit about the army, priceless.
From over a decade in IT I would say the opposite. IT is/was one of the only major industries that's still *possible* to get into without a degree or formal training because the outside community is so strong and robust with people developing new practices and applications for tech and experience is, I believe, easier to get in IT than it is in other sciences. There are hardly any amateur bioinformaticians who have 10 years of home training with no degree or people doing genetic engineering in their basement with no formal training. On the other hand, I knew and know dozens of people who admin fairly robust databases and systems yet have no formal training. Then again I don't hang out with geneticists so there may be more basement Gregor Mendels than I'm aware of. Like I mentioned, we'll occasionally hire people with no degrees (for high paying jobs) with demonstrated proficiency in certain specialties depending on the projects we're working on.

You're not going to run into a biologist in charge of (or even being a grunt in) a lab with no BS, Masters or PhD. You know that new building you see being constructed on your way to work in the morning, I'd bet quite a bit that the senior engineer that signed off on that had at least a masters and all the grunts doing the actual math have at least a BS. Even the philosophy professor (PhD), English professor (PhD), and librarian (MLS) at my college had degrees. The guy who does my dry cleaning has an MBA from USC. The M/W/F/Sat day shift manager and at the Enterprise I rent my cars from has a BS in management. The guy that just painted my building has a BA in construction management and these are just 'normal' people competing with every other 'normal' person for their piece of the [shrinking] pie.

In the current climate, it's hardly a waste of time to get a degree--generally speaking--if you want to lead a "normal" life. I do agree with you, though. The "normal" American life isn't for me either. I don't want kids, I don't own a car and I personally don't want to get married. I couldn't do a 9-5 job so I figured out a way to make life work on my terms and it sounds like you have as well, but I don't think everyone has that capability (not to be a dick, but life in the 3rd quartile isn't easy to achieve) and a degree is a nice and fairly inexpensive contingency plan for most people; as far as contingency plans go. I haven't worked for anyone but myself in almost 10 years and I don't think I'll ever have to out of necessity. However, I still went back and got a degree in MIS (thumbs up Carleton) because mainly I wanted the option to go to law school in the next few years... it was also cheap (about $15,000 total for classes/books at a state school and community college gen ed) and easy for me.

For some people degrees a waste of time, effort, and money... just like some people can plummet 16 stories and smash into the concrete and survive... but generally they don't and generally a degree is a good idea and offers a great ROI if you pick the right field (again, science / engineering and even some foreign languages)
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Old 03-31-09, 01:54 AM
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I can't believe there is an actual debate about having a college degree vs. not having a college degree in this thread. It does amuse me that most of the people that are saying that "degrees are bs" are the ones that don't have them. A little envious, maybe?

This debate should not even be going on. Do some reading, find statistics/research/polls/etc. You will find that OVERALL people with college degrees live a much more relaxed and comfortable lifestyle, with a lot more freedom than those without degrees.
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Old 03-31-09, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Fixter
Oh I went there, F' kids. And WTF do you know about music, HA, I know most programmers I know are the hippest and with it dudes going, so they must know all the ins and outs of MY industry. I have been in yours on and off for about 10 years now, and I don't pretend to know all about it, like I said, it helps to get certs and degrees in programming, but since the OP never mentioned that, then I gave blanket opinion that its a waste of time to get a degree. But I gotta say, the computer programmers/eng with degrees seem a bit bitter to me, divorce, car payments, kids, eww sounds terrible. but that's just my 2 cents. I love my easy freedom and relaxed life. me and my wife travel all over making ppl happy, with OUR music, recording our second album in the fall, I'm saying do it OP, buck the stupid American trend.

oh, and the bit about the army, priceless.
by the way, not a programer. I work on a computer, does not mean i am a programer. but oh wait, what do i know about music. hmmmmmm i bet a little more than you think. i guess an east coast tour doesn't mean much. and making music videos don't mean much. my job is much more tame now. stupid American trend? last time i checked people all over the world get higher educations. people who don't try hard enough or don't appreciate the experience are the ones who talked down on it. personally, the people i met and the friends i made in school are worth the money i spent. i met some of the best people in my life there. I'd say that was worth a few thousand here, a couple of grand there.
Good luck with you life dude. i'm not saying your stupid about your views, maybe a little jaded. but hey we're all a little jaded. if you want to personally attack me on the internet, and say my life choice to go to school was stupid and i waisted my time and money, go ahead, you some guy on the internet. oh and the army thing, i guess you never learned about sarcasim when you were busy racking up all your degrees.

i'll take plastic.
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Old 03-31-09, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Meepers
stupid American trend? last time i checked people all over the world get higher educations.
More people from elsewhere than the USA are getting college degrees because we're hiring them. The problem with the Stupid American Trend (read it with the proper emphasis: A trend toward stupidity in America) is that it's self propagating and becomes a continuous cycle. Lackluster mediocrity and contempt towards intellectualism inspiring an ever-declining ideal.
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Old 03-31-09, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Meepers
i'll take plastic.
Hahaha!

Originally Posted by CliftonGK1
More people from elsewhere than the USA are getting college degrees because we're hiring them. The problem with the Stupid American Trend (read it with the proper emphasis: A trend toward stupidity in America) is that it's self propagating and becomes a continuous cycle. Lackluster mediocrity and contempt towards intellectualism inspiring an ever-declining ideal.
Hit the nail on the head!
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Old 03-31-09, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Fixter
Well I am a far shot older than 19. I have 3 degrees, a BA, and 2 associates(lol), and I just think that sure, your a computer tech, go for the degree dude, I did it for a couple years, trust me, not worth the money, for me at least. I just am saying this country is all crazy over college. F' that, if ppl donated the money they waste sitting around drinking and hooking up to public education, then everyone would know where they belonged after high school. The answer isn't more schooling, its BETTER schooling. Thats why I work 4 days a week at a grocery store and play in a band. I make enough to have nice things, but I'm not controlled by either job. Freedom is the key, if you want to be really happy, answer to nobody, make your own hours, who gives a **** about all the crap. Oh, one last thing, DON"T HAVE KIDS.

So as far as this thread is concerned, OP where are you from?
It sounds like you are a pretty lazy/selfish person. If you want to just scrape enough money together to enjoy as much life as you can, go ahead. Personally, I like having a job where I make a difference and actually contribute to society. Some of us actually enjoy our jobs. Freedom is absolutely not the key. I would rather be constrained to a typical office job (which I am) and do something that contributes to society than have 'freedom' and waste my life on selfish pursuits.

If you have a bachelors and 2 associates, I guess we can assume you are at least 8 years old. It is time to grow up and stop acting that age.
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Old 03-31-09, 10:32 AM
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how do you "contribute to society"? what job do you have?
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Old 03-31-09, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by hnsq
It sounds like you are a pretty lazy/selfish person. If you want to just scrape enough money together to enjoy as much life as you can, go ahead. Personally, I like having a job where I make a difference and actually contribute to society. Some of us actually enjoy our jobs. Freedom is absolutely not the key. I would rather be constrained to a typical office job (which I am) and do something that contributes to society than have 'freedom' and waste my life on selfish pursuits.

If you have a bachelors and 2 associates, I guess we can assume you are at least 8 years old. It is time to grow up and stop acting that age.
Flashback of a "conversation" between my dad and brother at Thanksgiving '07.
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Old 03-31-09, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Geordi Laforge
how do you "contribute to society"? what job do you have?

He contributes to society by being Matt Spitzer, M.D., president of the US arm of Doctors Without Borders... don't you feel stupid now?


wouldn't THAT be funny?
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Old 03-31-09, 11:48 AM
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Young adults and younger are definitely in "Generation Me". This might sum it up:

https://classact.prblogs.org/2007/06/...generation-me/
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Old 03-31-09, 12:42 PM
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lulz at counting 2 associates and 1 b.a. as "three degrees". you've only got one that matters, and apparently aren't using it. as someone pointed out, college is about proving yourself capable of jumping the academic hurdle, it's up to you to make something of yourself in the real world. job placement could certainly be better focused upon by major universities, but they entrust the competence of their graduates.

back on topic, from what I hear on the DC Fixed forums the messenger market is oversaturated in this city, but I would imagine it to be a decent place to work if you're able to land a gig.
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Old 03-31-09, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by haywireII
I'm partners in an IS firm with four other people, three of which don't have degrees (I'm the only one with a B.S. that I only ended up getting in Dec '08), yet are all millionaires [except me... go figure] with the same type of background I have (super nerds who spent 23 hours a day in front of a computer learning various tech crap for the last 15 years).
this is why i love IT.
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Old 03-31-09, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sp00ki
this is why i love IT.
Yeah, it's pretty hard to BS in the IT field. Either you know it or you don't. Those that are BSing are outed pretty quickly.

I love when people find out that I'm a software engineer and they are like, "I'm studying for my MCPD" (or whatever it's called now). I'm like, "Well do you actually use the software to build stuff?". Then they get a blank look on their faces.

There are plenty of people that play the certification game. You know, study the certification test books and pass the test. Then they get the job based on the certs and are kicked out the door within a few weeks when people realize that that person didn't know jack. What people don't realize is that if you really know the software, OS, hardware, etc... you don't need the cert study guides. You really know the material from actually using it.

My certs haven't been up to date in 10 years. Instead of providing a list of certs, I provide a list of reference-able, satisfied clients.
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Old 03-31-09, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Meepers
i'll take plastic.
heh, typical. HeBoobs always want plastic.
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Old 04-01-09, 05:52 AM
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just easier to carry up stairs to my BIG apartment. and no, that's not over exaggerating. my apartment is really big.
edit:

i had something pretty mean written here. and although you went to a place you shouldn't have gone and deserve it, i erased. but from your attitude and lack of respect, i feel i, and a lot of other people here and in the world are in a better position in life than you are. i am secure, financially, physically, mentally and i have the girl of my dreams.
you like taking trips, good for you. once i get my 2 weeks of vacation for next year, I'm taking off over seas for a week or two. who knows maybe 3 ( i can afford to take a week unpaid, that's what using you head can get you). so my hats off to you. enjoy life bagging for "HeBoobs," i'll be in Italy, England Greece, or possibly Japan next year. Maybe i'll bring my guitar along, they like American music over there. maybe i can break my own theory and get some place in my late 20's.

Last edited by Meepers; 04-01-09 at 07:38 AM.
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Old 04-06-09, 08:58 AM
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Obviously this thread is about 2 posts from heart of darkness, but it's fun! Just thought I'd weigh in one more time:

1) what's really awesome is that 2mtr, who started this thread, hasn't weighed in in ages! He probably doesn't care about any of this.

2) I think it's ok to do something you want to do for a little bit. Just because dude asks where to go to be a messenger doens't mean he's thinking about retirement.

3) that "google it for ya" **** is hilarious!
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