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  1. #1
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    Thinking of having a wheelset built; i have some ideas, but would like opinions.

    Okay, like the title says i am going to have a custom wheelset built up, i have narrowed it down a little bit, but would like some input on what you guys think.

    - Paul hubs and mavic open pros or mavic cxp33

    - Miche Primato hubs and mavic open pros or cxp33

    - Formula hubs and same rim choices above

    I am going to be using these wheels for commuting back and forth to work (about 100 miles a week), perhaps some fixed gear debauchery like skid and skip stops, plus i weigh in at about 215lbs.

    Obviously the formula option is the cheapest, but is it going to be super durable and dependable?

    And finally, what about going with a set of Miche Pistards, Mavic Ellipses or Cane Creek volos?

    I know im throwing a lot out there, but i am just really undecided right now...

  2. #2
    monster
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    I ride a little over 100 miles a week on Miche hubs to CXP33s. They have taken some hits and have stayed true. I weigh in at 190lbs and they have held up just fine.

    Formula hubs are great and I can't see why to not go with Formula hubs to the 33s.

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the pointless reply...

  4. #4
    on Baby Charlie Concept~ muckymucky's Avatar
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  5. #5
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    i'm about 215 and i've been riding the IRO wheelset(formula hub and whatever the rim is, rebranded velocity?) for over a year in a town with really bad roads and a ton of old brick roads and i've had no problems whatsoever.

  6. #6
    175mm crank of love RichinPeoria's Avatar
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    Use the CXP33s

    Why dont you build them yourself?

    Go to the DT Spoke length calculator and put in the hubs, rims, spoke count, and cross number.
    Take those numbers over to Lickbike.com and buy the spokes.
    Buy a Park Spoke tension gauge, a wheel truing stand that allows you to measure both sides of the rim at the same time, and a spoke wrench
    Google "Sheldon Brown wheel building" and print out the directions on how to build wheels.
    Buy beer of your choice
    Take your time, and it will be a very rewarding experience.
    Charge $40.00 a pr + parts two or three times to some of your SS/fixie friends to build up nice wheels like you have and you have paid for the tools.
    Plus when you eventually run into a car or other solid object you can rebuild your own wheels ( and add a front brake )
    Last edited by RichinPeoria; 03-31-09 at 09:36 AM.
    Have a good day and htfu you big baby, Rich
    Quote Originally Posted by coasting View Post
    So I step away from BF for a day and this thread takes a nose dive! .....
    The only good bit is RichPeoria's yummy food pics again! Congratulations Rich; you are a king amongst fools

  7. #7
    Not a dick. Guvna's Avatar
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    imho, formulas are as nice a hub as most people need for commuting and typical fixed gear noodling around. I have a low flange paul up front right now that I'm very happy with too though.
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

  8. #8
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    For commuting, here's my 2 cents

    Loose ball hubs, hands down. Fully rebuildable, cheap, and perform very well. For the front hub, try and pick up an older Shimano XT, or Ultegra hub. Rear, I'm not so sure who makes a loose ball except the Dura Ace track hub, but that isn't meant for commuting, and it is dam expensive.

    Rims, if you're running brakes, try and pick up a set of Mavic ceramic rims, or at least one for the front, truely awesome stopping power, otherwise, open pro's or open sports are great, solid rims.

    Unless you have quite a bit of mechanical ability, DO NOT try and lace them yourself, it will cost more, and give you a headache like you can't imagine. Shops don't charge all that much for a basic cross 2 or 3 pattern, and it will be well worth it.

  9. #9
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Some of the advice on this thread is wrong, pointless and/or just misguided. Wheels are pretty easy to build, but it just takes some time and patience to get it right.

    Other comments suggesting you go with looseball bearings and ceramic rims are really just very minor points. Personally, I wouldn't advise either for commuting, but these are really very minor points and not very important in the grand scheme of things.

    Here my take on this, based on my own experience with these parts and building wheels in general...

    1. Stock wheels such as the Mavic Ellipses are overpriced for what they are. You'll end up with better wheels if you go custom, and if you don't blow wads of cash on worthless bling hubs, will cost you less money.

    2. Put your money where it counts..get quality rims, good double butted spokes. Don't waste your money on worthless bling hubs, or at least don't expect them to make you wheel any better. In my experience Formulas are as durable and spin as smoothly or better than hubs I have used that cost up to 6 times as much. If you happen to need replacement bearings or other hub hardware, it will cost you pennies.

    3. You can't pick a better rim than CXP33s...very easy to get a true wheel with good even tension. They are a tad bit heavier than OPs, but stronger and more durable. I've built two wheelsets with them, one road and one FG, and both turned out really great. I weigh 205 and I've never needed to true or retension any of them and I've put some pretty extreme loads on both wheelsets.

    4. Whether you build them yourself or have a wheelsmith build them for you, be proactive in making sure they are built well. Some builders aren't very good and even very good ones probably won't spend much more than an hour on your wheels and will **** things up once in a while. If you read up a bit on wheelbuilding you should know enough to determine the quality of the build. A quality build is more important than any of the individual wheel components or even the number of spokes. If you want a good riding wheel that will last, make sure its built right...I cannot emphasize this last point enough...
    Last edited by mihlbach; 03-31-09 at 12:21 PM.

  10. #10
    175mm crank of love RichinPeoria's Avatar
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    I think it takes more skill and attention to detail to text message and drive/ride or to play most modern day video games than to lace wheels. Painting a frame is alot more work than building a bicycle wheel imho and Ive done both a couple times.

    If you can read directions, have patience to turn a spoke wrench 1/4 turn at a time and see which way the rim moved you can build a (really good) wheel that you will be proud of.
    Have a good day and htfu you big baby, Rich
    Quote Originally Posted by coasting View Post
    So I step away from BF for a day and this thread takes a nose dive! .....
    The only good bit is RichPeoria's yummy food pics again! Congratulations Rich; you are a king amongst fools

  11. #11
    Senior Member bigvegan's Avatar
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    Why dont you build them yourself?
    +1.

    Or just order some pre-made. Unless you're buying something really cool, paying somebody to build up a mid-grade wheelset is kind of a waste of $.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
    Some of the advice on this thread is wrong, pointless and/or just misguided. Wheels are pretty easy to build, but it just takes some time and patience to get it right.

    Other comments suggesting you go with looseball bearings and ceramic rims are really just very minor points. Personally, I wouldn't advise either for commuting, but these are really very minor points and not very important in the grand scheme of things.
    Minor points? How so? Why wouldn't advise ceramic rims? They last forever and have far superior stopping ability.

    Depending on the OP's weight, the ceramic/open pro's would be right, but if he's your weight, the cxp's are more appropriate.

    Double butted spokes are a bit over kill, for a solid commuting rim, straight guage is fine.

    Loose bearing hubs are far easier to service, and actually get better as they wear in, so for commuting they are ideal.

    Formula hubs are cheap, but so are older shimano loose bearing hubs.

  13. #13
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigvegan View Post
    +1.

    Or just order some pre-made. Unless you're buying something really cool, paying somebody to build up a mid-grade wheelset is kind of a waste of $.
    Not really. If you want a low-grade wheelset, its cheaper to buy a pre-made. Once you start getting into the mid-high range, building yourself is cheaper. I've built wheeelsets that are lighter, stronger, and more aero than mid-grade Mavic and Cane Creek wheels for hundreds of dollars less. Plus, if you know what your are doing, you are getting exactly what you want...a wheel built specifically for your body weight and your riding style.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
    Not really. If you want a low-grade wheelset, its cheaper to buy a pre-made. Once you start getting into the mid-high range, building yourself is cheaper. I've built wheeelsets that are lighter, stronger, and more aero than mid-grade Mavic and Cane Creek wheels for hundreds of dollars less. Plus, if you know what your are doing, you are getting exactly what you want...a wheel built specifically for your body weight and your riding style.
    You talk as if building a wheelset isn't a challenge. I know they get easier the more you build (I've got a few sets under my belt), but there are too many idiots on this board who will take your advise the wrong way.

  15. #15
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendon_ak View Post
    Minor points? How so? Why wouldn't advise ceramic rims? They last forever and have far superior stopping ability.

    Depending on the OP's weight, the ceramic/open pro's would be right, but if he's your weight, the cxp's are more appropriate.

    Double butted spokes are a bit over kill, for a solid commuting rim, straight guage is fine.

    Loose bearing hubs are far easier to service, and actually get better as they wear in, so for commuting they are ideal.

    Formula hubs are cheap, but so are older shimano loose bearing hubs.
    Ceramic rims are fine, but not necessary. There are many other more important aspects of rim design to first consider.

    Looseball hubs do spin smoother (when set up correctly), but require more servicing and not the best option if you ride a lot in nasty weather, but either way, sealed vs. looseball matters very little to how the wheel rides.

    Double butted spokes are superior to straight gauge. They are lighter, more durable, and don't cost much more. Double butted spokes are a win-win, especially for symmetrically dished ss/fg wheels where stiffness is not really an issue.

  16. #16
    Gentlemen. ADSR's Avatar
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    I went with ProWheelBuilder.com and I couldn't be happier. Fast turnaround, good customer service, and a quality product for a great price. I paid just a little more than I would have for your standard DeepV/Formula set and got exactly what I wanted.

    My next project is to build my own wheels though.
    The bums will always lose.

  17. #17
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brendon_ak View Post
    You talk as if building a wheelset isn't a challenge. I know they get easier the more you build (I've got a few sets under my belt), but there are too many idiots on this board who will take your advise the wrong way.
    Wheelbuilding requires patience and some common sense, but I don't consider it to be much of a challenge, especially for a non-dished ss/fg wheel. Its pretty hard to **** it up.

    Speak for yourself about the idiots comment. I think the rest of us should take that as an insult. I've offered advice to hundreds of people on this forum and elsewhere about wheelbuilding, always with good results. Maybe you are less capable of offering good advice.

  18. #18
    175mm crank of love RichinPeoria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    FYI

    DIY culture + internet is driving small business out of business.

    Small businesses (apparently the heartbeat of American commerce) lose customers for two reasons:
    1) Large stores (Performance, Walmart, Target) pricing them out due to volume discounts and product availability.
    2) DIY + Internet is eliminating using stores altogether.

    Support your local economy. Pay a professional wheel builder.
    I paid the above mentioned bike shop $50.00 to build a set of wheels for me from new parts. After the 2nd or 3rd ride I had to retrue and tension them myself (<100 miles) . I found later the rear drive side spokes were laced backwards as well. After rebuilding that wheel set a "pro" did for me I decided I could do it better myself.
    Have a good day and htfu you big baby, Rich
    Quote Originally Posted by coasting View Post
    So I step away from BF for a day and this thread takes a nose dive! .....
    The only good bit is RichPeoria's yummy food pics again! Congratulations Rich; you are a king amongst fools

  19. #19
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    FYI

    DIY culture + internet is driving small business out of business.

    Small businesses (apparently the heartbeat of American commerce) lose customers for two reasons:
    1) Large stores (Performance, Walmart, Target) pricing them out due to volume discounts and product availability.
    2) DIY + Internet is eliminating using stores altogether.

    Support your local economy. Pay a professional wheel builder.

    This is just a bogus arguement, apparently meant to go along with your apparent aversion to having to touch a wrench. I guess we should just stay dumb, keep our thumbs in our mouths, and pay people to do everything for us. Hey everyone, DIY is killing the world! Oh please, give me a freaking break. Thats the most absurd then I've read in awhile.

    For what its worth, I've bought a lot of wheel parts and wheel building tools from the LBS. And you should also realize that a lot of online shops are not big corporate entities...many of them are small shops that have adapted their business model to deal with the internet. I've mail ordered a lot of stuff from smaller shops. If a lot of crappy shops that can't adapt are going under, so be it. I'd rather do it myself than pay some shop $80 to have some high school drop out lace my wheels for me.

    Another thing you fail to realize, is that cycling hobbyists, like many on this forum who order lots of parts online and DIY, are a rare breed. Furthermore, we are not the people driving LBSs out. I order online as much as I possibly can, and DIY as much as possible, and I STILL spend way way more at my LBS then most customers. They love me there.
    Last edited by mihlbach; 03-31-09 at 02:52 PM.

  20. #20
    Not a dick. Guvna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    FYI

    DIY culture + internet is driving small business out of business.
    I think the current surge in popularity of cycling is compensating for a couple hundred people learning how to build their own wheels. In New York, at least, it seems like a new shop or boutique opens every month.
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

  21. #21
    Large Member Geordi Laforge's Avatar
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    mihlbach: what is your opinion on low-flange hubs paired with low profile / box rims? I am looking to build up a pair of open pros with low-flange miche hubs mainly for aesthetics, but I am wondering if the wheels will be flexy or not as tough as a high-flange or a deeper rim. Ideally, I'd like durable but lightweight, but if such a wheelset would be weaker, I'd put aesthetic desires aside and go for something stronger.

  22. #22
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guvna View Post
    I think the current surge in popularity of cycling is compensating for a couple hundred people learning how to build their own wheels. In New York, at least, it seems like a new shop or boutique opens every month.
    Not to mention those couple hundred people who have invested enough interest in cycling to learn to build their own wheels probably dump way more money into the cycling industry then most other people who own and ride bikes.

  23. #23
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geordi Laforge View Post
    mihlbach: what is your opinion on low-flange hubs paired with low profile / box rims? I am looking to build up a pair of open pros with low-flange miche hubs mainly for aesthetics, but I am wondering if the wheels will be flexy or not as tough as a high-flange or a deeper rim. Ideally, I'd like durable but lightweight, but if such a wheelset would be weaker, I'd put aesthetic desires aside and go for something stronger.

    Theoretically speaking, a low flange hub will result in a laterally more flexy wheel, but the differences are minor if even noticable. Wheel stiffness is a serious issue with heavily dished wheels, and you can do all sorts of tricks, such using a hub with a very high drive side flange, to add a little stiffness. Stiffness is just not a major issue for basic 32 spoke undished track wheels, since the wheel is symmetrical and the spokes on both sides have a strong angle of approach, regardless of flange height. I don't even bother with high flange front hubs anymore...I use superlight low flange road hubs and my front wheels are plenty stiff. I still use high flange rear hubs, but thats because Formulas are so cheap. If you want to use low flange, I wouldn't be concerned about it at all.

    As for rims...deeper rims increase the spoke angle and thus increase stiffness to a degree similar to a high flange hub. Also, deeper rims are definately stiffer vertically. ou can get away with fewer spokes using a deeper rim because the upward force exerted on the wheel from the road is distributed further along the rim, to more spokes.

    If you are planing on the basic 32 spoke 3-cross build, then a low profile rim with low flange hubs should be more than adequate, but a high flange hub combined with a high profile rim will increase the stiffness. If you are more into low-spoke-count wheels, then you should go with a deeper rim.
    Last edited by mihlbach; 03-31-09 at 03:03 PM.

  24. #24
    Large Member Geordi Laforge's Avatar
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    thanks
    yeah, 32 3x is the plan.

  25. #25
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Good luck!

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