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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 06-08-04, 09:01 PM   #1
brunning
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which would be immune to stripping threads from skidding and sprinting.

the body would not be threaded, but would have splines like a freehub body. then, a specially made cog could slide on one way and not turn, and would then be secured with a lockring.

tradition and standards are valid concerns, but track riders don't have to worry about regular skid stops.

Last edited by brunning; 06-08-04 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 06-08-04, 09:06 PM   #2
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didja strip yours today?
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Old 06-08-04, 09:06 PM   #3
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I was under the impression that something to this end existed. I could be completely mistaken, though.
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Old 06-08-04, 09:08 PM   #4
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somebody does make a splined fixed gear hub.....i think miche maybe? not positive though....
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Old 06-08-04, 09:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunning
which would be immune to stripping threads from skidding and sprinting.

the body could be threaded with splines like a freehub body is. then, a specially made cog could slide on one way and not turn, and would then be secured with a lockring.

tradition and standards are valid concerns, but track riders don't have to worry about regular skid stops.
This guy is doing it, saw one at the East Coast SS Champs last week. I've got one on the way for testing. Look for a report once I've logged some miles on it.
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Old 06-08-04, 09:33 PM   #6
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well well... i guess i spoke too soon.

i didn't strip my hub, but i came very close and thought about what an outmoded design this is as i tightened down.
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Old 06-08-04, 09:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riderx
This guy is doing it, saw one at the East Coast SS Champs last week. I've got one on the way for testing. Look for a report once I've logged some miles on it.
Holy crap. I want it.
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Old 06-08-04, 10:03 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Fugazi Dave
Holy crap. I want it.
I read riderx's post from the singlespeed forum at MTBR.com and shot Level Components an email. Here's the reply I got from Scott Hansen...

Hello James,

thanks for your inquiry.

the hub in question is $220 US. it comes with a 16tooth cog and is available in 120mm and 135mm spacing. 32 hole and 36 hole as well. it comes with both spacers for now. that was one of the design criteria; to be able to swap the hub from track bike to mtb, swap the spacers, flip the cog over and have everything line up. so, really you are getting two hubs in one. other design criteria were for same spoke length front and rear, left and right; high flanges so you can repair a broken spoke on the drive side even if you are running a large cog and to be completely servicable using standard tools ( you can press the bearing in with the cog in an emergency situation)......i am currently using the same hub for both my SSmtb and my track frame. i machine everything, or have the CNC Guru do the major stuff, at a local machine shop in small batches. the idea of going overseas to get the production costs down doesn't appeal to me....nice choice of rims (I told him I was building a rear wheel using Mavic Open Pros). i have a messenger in Wash D.C. riding that same setup and loves it. his down time is virtully nil now because of the ability to service the hub himself without having to hoof it cross town to the bike shop....

Looking Forward,

Scott Hansen
LeVeL Components
Cape Cod Mass



Sounds pretty interesting...expensive...but interesting...
riderx, let us know more once you get some decent miles on that thing...now why couldn't I have swung a test hub? Some guys get all the luck!
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Old 06-08-04, 11:28 PM   #9
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If the quality is there, I think I'd pay that price for something that is intelligently designed by someone who does it for the love of it.
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Old 06-08-04, 11:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunning
well well... i guess i spoke too soon.

i didn't strip my hub, but i came very close and thought about what an outmoded design this is as i tightened down.
Just a dumb question.....How do you know that you came close to stripping your hub?
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Old 06-09-04, 01:32 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by progre-ss
i machine everything, or have the CNC Guru do the major stuff, at a local machine shop in small batches.
I don't want to be a component snob, but aren't CNC'ed hubs inferior to cold forged hubs? When Campy advises against using track hubs on the street due to potential flange failure, I look more and more into the types of materials being used.

While the idea behind the hub has merit, I would rather spend the money for this hub on a tried and true set of forged Phil Wood hubs over a single rear hub of which no longer term data is available.

edit: Almost forgot to mention the Miche splined sprocket system. Here's a link to business cycles which carries it: http://www.businesscycles.com/tcog-miche.htm

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Old 06-09-04, 06:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunning
which would be immune to stripping threads from skidding and sprinting.

the body would not be threaded, but would have splines like a freehub body. then, a specially made cog could slide on one way and not turn, and would then be secured with a lockring.

tradition and standards are valid concerns, but track riders don't have to worry about regular skid stops.

I can understand the concern about stripping the threads from sprinting.
But please explain to me how you would strip the threads from skidding. By it's very nature, s/s hubs use a free wheel and thereby preclude skidding with the hub as is done with fixed gear. Maybe my 35 plus years of riding s/s and fixed gear have been all wrong, but I don't think so.

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Old 06-09-04, 06:19 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fixedgearhead
I can understand the concern about stripping the threads from sprinting.
But please explain to me how you would strip the threads from skidding. By it's very nature, s/s hubs use a free wheel and thereby preclude skidding with the hub as is done with fixed gear. Maybe my 35 plus years of riding s/s and fixed gear have been all wrong, but I don't think so.

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I think it was just a mistake in using the wrong terminology by the original poster.
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Old 06-09-04, 06:25 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panasoanic
I don't want to be a component snob, but aren't CNC'ed hubs inferior to cold forged hubs?
Here is an interesting article on forged vs. machined. Not pertaining to bike parts, but the info should still apply. I take it that using the proper material for whichever process is being used is probably the greatest factor in determining strength, along with design, and not whether it was forged or machined.
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Old 06-09-04, 06:41 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by riderx
This guy is doing it, saw one at the East Coast SS Champs last week. I've got one on the way for testing. Look for a report once I've logged some miles on it.
look sweet. I'll see how they last out there b4 dropping 220 large. I remember when the Chub first came out. I have only heard one good review from xcutterx on that one.
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Old 06-09-04, 06:43 AM   #16
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I think it was just a mistake in using the wrong terminology by the original poster.
yes. fixed gear is what i'm implying here.
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Old 06-09-04, 06:44 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cynikal
Just a dumb question.....How do you know that you came close to stripping your hub?

cause i pulled the lockring and cog off and saw the visible wear on the threads from the cog being pulled back and forth as i skidded and accelerated.

the cog threaded back on and i used a heavier loc-tite, but if there was any more wear, it might have been a lost cause.
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Old 06-09-04, 06:49 AM   #18
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Very cool stuff, I think he might actually be on to something there. If you read the Leigh High Velodrome press release on his website they say that one of the main advantages is the ability to quickly change cogs between races with only simple tools and no fear of really screwing it up. I like the idea that in 10 minutes with only a torx wrench I could swap cogs before a ride. My big concern is buying a $220 hub and a few cogs and then having the company fold and not being able to get more cogs after a certain point.
I'd certainly be willing to pay that much for a hub though for an uber wheelset. A Phil hub is already $140, another $80 thrown onto a $500 wheelset wouldn't make me too sad if it was really a better design, I also really like the fact that it's made locally (to him anyway) that's starting to matter to me. Maybe in a year when I'm ready for a set of uber wheels I'll get one.
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Old 06-09-04, 06:55 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brunning
cause i pulled the lockring and cog off and saw the visible wear on the threads from the cog being pulled back and forth as i skidded and accelerated.

the cog threaded back on and i used a heavier loc-tite, but if there was any more wear, it might have been a lost cause.
If you don't run a front brake, you might want to consider it. I've got one for emergency situations and had a hub strip on me as I went back pedal to stop at an intersection. Luckily I had that front brake so I didn't fly into the busy intersection since I was moving pretty fast.
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Old 06-09-04, 08:02 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riderx
If you don't run a front brake, you might want to consider it. I've got one for emergency situations and had a hub strip on me as I went back pedal to stop at an intersection. Luckily I had that front brake so I didn't fly into the busy intersection since I was moving pretty fast.
blasphemy!

no, i do ride a front brake in the winter time when the roads are wetter, but i like everything about riding brakeless as well, and ride a gearing in the mid-60s for easy starting and stopping. i check my equipment pretty regularly and realize this probably wouldn't have happened so easily if i'd used loc-tite last time.
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Old 06-09-04, 08:22 AM   #21
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miche makes a track hub with a splined interface.

http://www.worldclasscycles.com/miche_track_cogs.htm

i think that carrier converts hubs to allow for the splined interface. i've seen pictures of their hubs without a splined interface though, so their hubs might require this carrier as well. i'm not sure if they make a hub that has those splines built in...
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Old 06-09-04, 08:58 AM   #22
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I think this LeVel guy reinvented the wheel as far as the cog mounting design is concerned. I much rather prefer someone make a fixie hub that uses Shimano splines (individual cogs are cheap and easy to obtain) that take a Shimano cassette type lockring. This way one does not have to worry if the company folds down and the special cogs become unavailable, or to pay for overpriced cogs. Besides, the spline system looks cleaner, not to mention Shimano stuff is top notch and reasonably priced. One of the supposed advantages of his cogs is that it is easier to do trailside repair since you use common torx wrench. But this should be a very rare occurance to warrant a proprietary cog design.
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Old 06-09-04, 09:41 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by commander_taco
One of the supposed advantages of his cogs is that it is easier to do trailside repair since you use common torx wrench. But this should be a very rare occurance to warrant a proprietary cog design.
Also, I did not think of this last night, but I think the main benefit of such a hub would be the ability to micro adjust the chainline.

The web site mentions this:

Quote:
Fixed Gear cog with eye2knuckle interface. Sizes 15 thru 20 tooth. Asymmetrical stepped InI cog allows for micro-chainline adjustment.
and

Quote:
The chain line is most important. The cogs are custom laterally asymmetrically designed so you can adjust the chain line from the minimum (44.2mm) to a theoretical max (51.30).
I think this is just a function of being able to flip the cog facing the drive side or the non drive side. If you look at the following picture you can see that you can flip the cog and how that would effect the chainline.



It would be great if they could design the "knuckle" interface to stick out a bit more so that one could add something like washers behind the bolts to get an exact chainline down to the mm. It seems that flipping the cog is probably too great of a change when one wants to dial in just 2 or 3 mm of chainline difference.
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Old 06-09-04, 11:57 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by [165]
look sweet. I'll see how they last out there b4 dropping 220 large. I remember when the Chub first came out. I have only heard one good review from xcutterx on that one.
Excuse me but it looks like they have a track cog bolted to that hub. I still question how you "skid" a freewheel single speed hub by back peddling. If they somehow can bolt a freewheel to that hub it becomes, by it's very nature, a freewheeling single speed hub and therefore can't be skidded.

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Old 06-09-04, 12:08 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by fixedgearhead
Excuse me but it looks like they have a track cog bolted to that hub. I still question how you "skid" a freewheel single speed hub by back peddling. If they somehow can bolt a freewheel to that hub it becomes, by it's very nature, a freewheeling single speed hub and therefore can't be skidded.

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You've been sleeping in class again. Please review the above posts.
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