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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 06-12-04, 03:25 PM   #1
skitbraviking
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current subject of bike drool

http://www.santacruzbicycles.com/bicycles/roadster.php

Can be set up as SS/fixed or as a standard road bike. I really like the versatility. Plus when I get old and wanna road bike, there is it.
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Old 06-12-04, 04:36 PM   #2
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Very cool. I've always thought it made a huge amount of sense to have interchangeable dropouts to allow you to switch between track and road setups, but this is the only bike I can remember ever seeing the feature on. Does anyone else do this?
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Old 06-12-04, 05:09 PM   #3
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Not that I know of. But yea, it does make sense.
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Old 06-12-04, 06:32 PM   #4
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http://www.kavikbicycles.com/dropout.htm

modular dropouts...
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Old 06-12-04, 07:24 PM   #5
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The mountainbikes in Giants 1991 range had bolt on dropouts, so did the SR Litage frames of the same era. The Kavik style design is okay, one minor problem - the bottom bolt is in sheer, so don't use an Aluminium bolt there. Broke a couple on my FS bike.

FYI, modular dropouts or not, that SC isn't steel. You're out of the club.
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Old 06-12-04, 10:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thylacine
The mountainbikes in Giants 1991 range had bolt on dropouts, so did the SR Litage frames of the same era. The Kavik style design is okay, one minor problem - the bottom bolt is in sheer, so don't use an Aluminium bolt there. Broke a couple on my FS bike.

FYI, modular dropouts or not, that SC isn't steel. You're out of the club.
Aren't many of your models aluminum?
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Old 06-12-04, 11:15 PM   #7
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no. thylacine's bikes are all either steel or ti.

the gios "compact" is steel with bolt-on dropouts.
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Old 06-12-04, 11:22 PM   #8
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also, if it's interchangeable road/track dropouts, the spacing is still gonna be 130, which is 10mm wider than track spacing, which means that your hub choices are somewhat limited....this is the same reason why i don't "get" the cervelo p2k and the p3....
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Old 06-13-04, 01:05 AM   #9
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what dont you get about them? why they have mini track ends rather than dropouts?

cervelo is big on aerodynamics. in order to get the rear wheel as close to the seat tube as possible, they need the track ends. they certainly could get by with vertical dropouts, but then everyone would have to use the same size/model of tire, basically.

if they design the length of the stays to give 2mm clearance with 700x20s, if you decide to switch to 700x25 the tires may rub. alternatively, if they design for 2mm clearance with 700x25s, you'll have a much larger gap if you switch to 700x20. the track ends let you position the wheel as close as possible regardless of tire size.

the p2t model (their track frame) uses a 120mm spacing.
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Old 06-13-04, 12:12 PM   #10
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interesting, but it still doesn't outweigh the concern that the bike is ugly.
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Old 06-13-04, 12:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manboy
interesting, but it still doesn't outweigh the concern that the bike is ugly.
Listen boyman, it's a sleek look. I don't normally go for this kind of bike. Besides beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder. And you don't behold much.
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Old 06-13-04, 04:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fore
what dont you get about them? why they have mini track ends rather than dropouts?

cervelo is big on aerodynamics. in order to get the rear wheel as close to the seat tube as possible, they need the track ends. they certainly could get by with vertical dropouts, but then everyone would have to use the same size/model of tire, basically.

if they design the length of the stays to give 2mm clearance with 700x20s, if you decide to switch to 700x25 the tires may rub. alternatively, if they design for 2mm clearance with 700x25s, you'll have a much larger gap if you switch to 700x20. the track ends let you position the wheel as close as possible regardless of tire size.

the p2t model (their track frame) uses a 120mm spacing.
well...i understand that the horizontal dropouts are to get the wheel closer to the seat tube, what i don't get is why they advertise it as "OMG YOU CAN USE IT AS A TRACK BIKE OMGOMGOMG!!" when, while you CAN use it as a track bike, you have to fork over the money for A, a 130mm spaced track hub, and B, you'll probably have to have the wheel dished all funky for it to sit properly between the dropouts, due to the offset stays on most road bikes...

i'm just being nit-picky...i understand the design, and think it's pretty gosh darn cool, but they're definitely not going to work very well for a track set up...and one thing that i just now thought about: it would be a ***** to pull the rear wheel out of horizontal dropouts with a derailleur back there... eh...
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Old 06-13-04, 05:37 PM   #13
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Don't you think this is a better setup for someone who is training on a fix, not racing on a track. This was the first thing I thought of. How cool it would be to be able to have a winter fixed gear trainer and a full geared road bike in one. Santa Cruz has done this before with a MTB called the chameleon. I applaud the multiple uses for one bike.


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Old 06-13-04, 08:44 PM   #14
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I have 2 singlespeeds, I never think about gearing them. But anyway, if you want horizontal dropouts with a derailleur hanger, no biggie. After doing them myself, I like the idea, but I'm not happy with any of the designs out there. Steel is cool because there already are a couple of off the shelf designs that are horizontal with a derailleur hanger.
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Old 06-13-04, 10:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OneTinSloth
well...i understand that the horizontal dropouts are to get the wheel closer to the seat tube, what i don't get is why they advertise it as "OMG YOU CAN USE IT AS A TRACK BIKE OMGOMGOMG!!" when, while you CAN use it as a track bike, you have to fork over the money for A, a 130mm spaced track hub, and B, you'll probably have to have the wheel dished all funky for it to sit properly between the dropouts, due to the offset stays on most road bikes...

i'm just being nit-picky...i understand the design, and think it's pretty gosh darn cool, but they're definitely not going to work very well for a track set up...and one thing that i just now thought about: it would be a ***** to pull the rear wheel out of horizontal dropouts with a derailleur back there... eh...
as far as removing the wheel with a derailler, it's not that bad. klein uses rear-facing dropouts on their bikes, and once you figure it out ("wtf? why isnt't the wheel coming out? ooooooh. i see.") it's not so bad.

i've never seen cervelo advertise the possibility of using those two models as a track frame, but maybe i haven't looked well enough.

surly makes a 130mm fixed hub that'll work just fine. i raced on surly hubs last year, no complaints really. i dont understand why you'd have to have the wheel dished any different than normal. i'm also not sure i understand what you mean by offset stays. if the stays weren't aligned symmetrically the bike would handle like poo.
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Old 06-13-04, 11:56 PM   #16
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i know that on my road bike, the drive-side stays are farther out than the non-drive side stays, and i've seen that on a few other bikes as well. my bike handles great, BTW...although, my rear 9 speed wheel isn't dished the way most normal road wheels are dished (mine is more centered than usual, despite using a dishing tool to align it).

i though i saw cevelo advertising that the p2k and p3 could be used as track frames like last year or something, but they've since updated their website. i know that the excel sports catalogs that i've gotten say that the frame can double as a track frame...and i know that surly, phil, white industries, and paul make track hubs in 130, and even 135mm spacing, but...it still limits the choices...

i just think it would be annoying, trying to take the chain off the cassette to pull the wheel and having the RD continue to take up the slack, effectively keeping the chain tension on the cogs as you're trying to pull it out...must be murder trying to change a flat during a race...

i didn't mean to start an argument. i was just sayin' is all...
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Old 06-14-04, 01:37 AM   #17
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I agree with manboy that bike is just plain ugly, just my opinion though.
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Old 06-14-04, 03:49 AM   #18
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i was thinking of getting one of those a little while ago....

don't come up on ebay that often though, and they're pretty expensive when they do.

the old ones also had a habit of failing at the bb welds. but they've fixed that now.

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Old 06-14-04, 05:43 AM   #19
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We're all talking modular this and that, bla bla bla....
Back in the day bikes didn't have derauleur hangers, remember? They had those little thingies that fit in the long horizontal dropouts that the derauleur hooked onto that kept in it place when you pulled the wheel etc... Is there any reason at all that somebody can't fab up a small piece that does the same thing in a track end? Small, cheap, and as effective as they ever were. Why is this a worse idea than all the goofieness and expense of modular dropouts? Not that I want gears, but still........
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Old 06-14-04, 06:57 AM   #20
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I agree, three.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manboy
interesting, but it still doesn't outweigh the concern that the bike is ugly.
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Old 06-14-04, 09:44 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p3ntuprage
i was thinking of getting one of those a little while ago....

don't come up on ebay that often though, and they're pretty expensive when they do.

the old ones also had a habit of failing at the bb welds. but they've fixed that now.

fssb
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thanks, good to know
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Old 06-16-04, 09:38 AM   #22
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" This was the first thing I thought of. How cool it would be to be able to have a winter fixed gear trainer and a full geared road bike in one... I applaud the multiple uses for one bike. "

Yeah, it's called 'horizontal drops'. Unfortuantely, todays consumer fails to see many of todays 'advancements' as being the restrictors that they are.
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Old 06-16-04, 08:00 PM   #23
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Unfortuantely, todays consumer fails to see many of todays 'advancements' as being the restrictors that they are.
The restrictions being...?
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Old 06-17-04, 12:00 PM   #24
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"The restrictions being...?"

ok...thought they were pretty obvious based on the post.... but....

'Vertical drops'. Only serve to save 1 second in changing your tire. As a tradeoff, the biek is restricted to a drivechain with a chain-tensioning device.


Also,

2. Light frames - to save a few grams, which really only wins close races, you get tight tolerences, which restricts tire size, loose eyelits, which restrict fack/fender mounting, and lighterweight tubing restricts longevity. Lightweight wheels restrict rider weight, and minimal-spoke wheels (when combined with tight tolerences) restirct riding on a wheel with a broken spoke.

3. Threadless headsets. Restrict dynamic handlebar height.

4. Indexing - restricts componentry by forcing compatiblity.

5. Clipless - restricts ones eagerness to use the bike for errands, etc. Restricts the bike from being borrowed by other riders.

....
....
....
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Old 06-17-04, 06:59 PM   #25
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You sound cranky. Someone give this man a Steamroller...
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