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  1. #1
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    Stealing is sometimes Ethical

    In Manhattan, in Soho, there is a beautiful bianchi pista single speed locked up in front of this dance studio I go to with my fiancee. After every dance class, I see the bike locked up in the same place. I figured it belonged to our instructor. Even after a late performance the bike was still out there. I was like "wow, it's pretty late to leave a nice bike like that on the street"

    This is the exact bike I want to buy my fiance, every time we walk by it, I'm like "that bike is going to be perfect for you. we should buy it." I could tell just by looking at the frame that it is about her size.

    Conspicuously, the bike never ever moved. So one day we walk by, and that **** is totally stripped, pedals, seat, head, handles, backtire. Only the front tire and the frame are left, they are attached to the bike stand with one of those kryptonite NY locks.

    I said, "whoever owns that is going to be really upset. That is a nice bike". A week later, the bike frame and tire are still there, sadly locked to the bike stand. What happens next in NY is this: people will step on the frame as they crowd in shopping, just destroying it. there must be hundreds of these carcasses all over the city. Obviously, no one gives a **** about this bike, some stupid super model bought it on a whim and then got bored with it.

    So I went back with a hacksaw and tried to get through that lock, but man, that hardened steel is tough. I could even get any kind of purchase with the teeth after sawing for a half hour at noon on a sunday. I mean, if the police stopped me, I would have just pleaded my case for the poor bianchi frame doomed to die. but, no one stopped me, even though a lot of people stared, and I couldn't get through it anyway. Now, I guess the only thing to do is get an angle grinder with a long extension cord, so I guess it isn't worth it, but it sure is a shame. I've considered asking the police if they would cut the lock for me. What do you think I should do? Just leave it for dead?

  2. #2
    Senior Member nelzar13's Avatar
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    So how long has i been there total? if a month , i say give it new life !

  3. #3
    Living 'n Dying in ¾-Time JBHoren's Avatar
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    There's probably a video camera trained on that bicycle, which has been taking-and-storing pictures every 10 seconds and streaming them on someone's website. Are YOU ready for your "15-minutes of fame"?

  4. #4
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    Hey, you don't have to find ways to justify you stealing other peoples bikes to us, we aren't the theives.
    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    Dude, when you live by the Tarck sword, you die by the Tarck sword. Ashes to ashes and dust to dust.

  5. #5
    Senior Member TheBikeRollsOn's Avatar
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    You should have tried stealing it before everyone beat you to it.

  6. #6
    Senior Member TheBikeRollsOn's Avatar
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    That was a joke btw.

  7. #7
    Baka dakara supercub's Avatar
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    One problem with stealing the bike: you might get arrested for theft.

  8. #8
    Live without dead time
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    true story from around here;

    A few of us on the toronto fixed boards noticed a custom handmade lugged fixed gear locked in an area notorious for bike theft. It was there for a week before parts started going missing. Campy drivetrain, real nice stuff, stripped. We freaked, thinking how ridiculous it was that someone left such a nice bike locked out like that.

    Turns out, the guy had gotten hit by a car and someone locked his bike up for him while he went to the hospital. Having gotten injured pretty bad, he wasn't able to retrieve his bike.

    And I guess the moral of the story is that it's too bad some dude like you with an angle grinder wasn't around. Because instead of being able to salvage the frame when he finally was able to get out of the hospital and pick the bike up, YOU coulda had the chance to just steal the whole bike since it woulda just gotten stolen anyway...
    Rich

  9. #9
    Ride for Life wearyourtruth's Avatar
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    maybe i'm just feeling philosophical tonight, but i think people's thoughts for or against removing an abandoned bike hinge from their own answers to subtlety in definition. is stealing "taking what's not yours" or is it "taking something that belongs to someone else?" by definition stealing can be interpreted either way. theft, however, is "taking something that belongs to someone else". what is property? what is ownership? these become funny words. is something that someone has abandoned still theirs? at what point is it no longer their property? at what point are they no longer in ownership? i think we all agree that nothing abandoned belongs to the abandoner indefinitely, so the question becomes a matter of time. some would say that that question cannot be answered, and so you should never touch the bike. so, then, should all things that are not someone's property become the property of the state? (i.e. the cops come clip it)


    i do love how every time this question is brought up, everyone in the forum becomes a blood-thirsty capitalist. not a single hippy dippy native american "we shouldn't put so much emphasis on ownership, man. nothing can truly be owned, only borrowed" no, no. we all think very strongly that what is mine is mine and what is yours is yours and we should all keep our ****in hands to ourselves.
    before posting, a "noob" should always ask themselves "could this have been answered by first visiting Sheldon Brown

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  10. #10
    Senior Member howl's Avatar
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    think of it as adopting an unwanted orphan

  11. #11
    Ths Hipstr Kills Masheenz cc700's Avatar
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    is it yours? no.

    you're just helping the people who stole the **** off of it make the crime complete.

    the only ethical stealing is if the pista owner is using it to kill poor defenseless babies and you're going to steal it to use to grind oatmeal to feed poor defenseless babies.

    and i'm sorry but there's just no way you will be able to prove that's the case.

  12. #12
    Baka dakara supercub's Avatar
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    Is it ethical to steal a loaf of bread to feed your family? Yes, yes it is.

    Maybe he's going to feed the bike to his children. Did you think of that possibility?

  13. #13
    Comanche Racing PedallingATX's Avatar
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    take it and leave an I.O.U. for 1 pista frame.
    skinnytire

  14. #14
    uke
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    (Sub "Pista" for "Property")

    JesseDuncan:I just love how "cars will be forced to cross the double yellow lines on dangerous limited visibility roads".

    I don't want to have a head on but oh god, I HAVE to fling myself into oncoming traffic to pass, theres no alternative!!!

  15. #15
    Senior Member maddyfish's Avatar
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    1. Take out the hacksaw
    2. Place it against your left wrist
    3. Cut off your hand

    Since you failed to steal the bike, you get to keep one of your hands.
    Not too much to say here

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by wearyourtruth View Post
    i do love how every time this question is brought up, everyone in the forum becomes a blood-thirsty capitalist. not a single hippy dippy native american "we shouldn't put so much emphasis on ownership, man. nothing can truly be owned, only borrowed" no, no. we all think very strongly that what is mine is mine and what is yours is yours and we should all keep our ****in hands to ourselves.
    You should put a piece of masking tape over your top tube with your address and a note that says "hey, bring this back when you're done if you don't mind" and then leave your bike out for whoever to take. You know, since you wouldn't want to be a "blood thirsty capitalist" and you can't really "own" a bike and all.
    Rich

  17. #17
    Comanche Racing PedallingATX's Avatar
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    wearyourtruth---the difference b/w taking this pista and taking a bike frame from say, a junkyard, is that at the junkyard the owner has intentionally discarded the item. Anything that has been purposefully given up is, in my book, fair game to take. Something that is still locked up while the owner just happens to be M.I.A....that's a different story. Like Twitcho said...you have no idea what the circumstances are surrounding this bike.
    skinnytire

  18. #18
    Large Member Geordi Laforge's Avatar
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    +1

    Perhaps this person is in a hospital or jail -- no one knows. I'd rather come out of the hospital or jail and retrieve my frame sans components than nothing at all.

    would you want someone to take your frame?

  19. #19
    Señor Member Understanding's Avatar
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    well, no matter the circumstances, i feel if i locked a bike in nyc for that long, i'd expect it to be gone.
    Quote Originally Posted by Geordi Laforge View Post
    the C&V forum sure is going to suck in 20 years.

  20. #20
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tetraopteryx View Post
    In Manhattan, in Soho, there is a beautiful bianchi pista single speed locked up in front of this dance studio I go to with my fiancee. After every dance class, I see the bike locked up in the same place. I figured it belonged to our instructor. Even after a late performance the bike was still out there. I was like "wow, it's pretty late to leave a nice bike like that on the street"

    This is the exact bike I want to buy my fiance, every time we walk by it, I'm like "that bike is going to be perfect for you. we should buy it." I could tell just by looking at the frame that it is about her size.

    Conspicuously, the bike never ever moved. So one day we walk by, and that **** is totally stripped, pedals, seat, head, handles, backtire. Only the front tire and the frame are left, they are attached to the bike stand with one of those kryptonite NY locks.

    I said, "whoever owns that is going to be really upset. That is a nice bike". A week later, the bike frame and tire are still there, sadly locked to the bike stand. What happens next in NY is this: people will step on the frame as they crowd in shopping, just destroying it. there must be hundreds of these carcasses all over the city. Obviously, no one gives a **** about this bike, some stupid super model bought it on a whim and then got bored with it.

    So I went back with a hacksaw and tried to get through that lock, but man, that hardened steel is tough. I could even get any kind of purchase with the teeth after sawing for a half hour at noon on a sunday. I mean, if the police stopped me, I would have just pleaded my case for the poor bianchi frame doomed to die. but, no one stopped me, even though a lot of people stared, and I couldn't get through it anyway. Now, I guess the only thing to do is get an angle grinder with a long extension cord, so I guess it isn't worth it, but it sure is a shame. I've considered asking the police if they would cut the lock for me. What do you think I should do? Just leave it for dead?

    Honestly, if you have to do this much ******** explaining then you, too, know that it's wrong.




    Here's how karma will kick you in the nuts:

    A year from now your GF goes to register the bike's serial number in some database (with the city, college or whatever) and guess what? DING! The number comes back "stolen". Now she is in possession of the SOLE serialized part of the bicycle. Therefore she gets convicted of the entire crime.

    Then you have to repeat that SAME story that you wrote above as it falls on deaf ears. All for a frame that's worth $100 tops.

    Yeah, that's a brilliant idea.

  21. #21
    Fixed-gear roadie JacoKierkegaard's Avatar
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    Congratulations! You're a ******bag!

    2008 Masi Speciale Fixed

  22. #22
    frequent rider jeanHTX's Avatar
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    why's everyone so against op taking this frame? i thought i'd at least see a 50/50 in terms of opinion.

    anyways, my $0.02, take it.
    i'm only happy when i'm riding my bike

  23. #23
    uke
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    it's easy if you let it. uke's Avatar
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    I'm debating turning part of this into a sig...it's almost surreal in its brazen, confessional nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by failed bike thief
    So I went back with a hacksaw and tried to get through that lock, but man, that hardened steel is tough. I could even get any kind of purchase with the teeth after sawing for a half hour at noon on a sunday. I mean, if the police stopped me, I would have just pleaded my case for the poor bianchi frame doomed to die. but, no one stopped me, even though a lot of people stared, and I couldn't get through it anyway. Now, I guess the only thing to do is get an angle grinder with a long extension cord, so I guess it isn't worth it, but it sure is a shame.

    JesseDuncan:I just love how "cars will be forced to cross the double yellow lines on dangerous limited visibility roads".

    I don't want to have a head on but oh god, I HAVE to fling myself into oncoming traffic to pass, theres no alternative!!!

  24. #24
    Fixed-gear roadie JacoKierkegaard's Avatar
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    I just think that not taking things that aren't yours is pretty much always the best policy, a great example being the scenarios mentioned where somebody gets injured and the bike has to be left. They obviously cared about it enough to lock it with a Krypto NY, at any rate. The owner's lost enough as it is with the bike being stripped, don't make things worse.
    2008 Masi Speciale Fixed

  25. #25
    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanatx View Post
    why's everyone so against op taking this frame? i thought i'd at least see a 50/50 in terms of opinion.

    anyways, my $0.02, take it.

    Everyone in jail ALSO had a good reason for doing what they did to get arrested and convicted.


    Here's the thing. It's not like finding a $100 bill on the ground. Even then, you are supposed to report the find to the police and wait a certain amount of time for someone to claim it. That's what you do when you find an envelope with $20,000 cash and no contact info (yes, this HAS happened). After a defined amount of time, it's yours. But, you MUST go through the process.

    This bike is not abandoned, lost, in a dumpster, on the side of a building, in an alley. This bike is locked to a pole.

    If a bike is so much like a car, how would you feel if you locked your car and went away for 2 weeks and came back and found it stripped sitting on bricks?...and the OP was pulling out the last salvageable bits because someone else started the job.

    Wrong is wrong.

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