banerjek

I'm new to the forum, so flame away if this has been answered a billion times in the past. I want to add an urban commuter to my stable, but unless I want to drop a buttload of cash, the weights on the affordable SS and fixies are nearly equal to my touring bike and significantly heavier than my bents and racer.

What gives? I know that decent steel and AL frames exist, and it would seem that stripping the components off would make things light. But the prices I'm seeing stink.

zerosiah

mercier kilo TT - 19lb stock
it's cheap and people seem to like them

charlesduke

Soma, IRO, and Jamis have some offerings that are made of Reynolds 631. Presumably, they're pretty light, but I do not know offhand.

Would Reynolds 631 be much lighter than the 520 that the Kilo is made of? If not, maybe the Kilo is what you're looking for...

psirue

631 would be lighter, yes.

charlesduke

What kind of weight difference are we looking at between a 520 frame and a 631 frame?

zerosiah

essentially you are asking "what is the weight difference between two types of drinking glasses?"

weight mainly lies upon the thickness of the tubes (among other things), just as the weight differs from one type of glass to another.

PedallingATX

The weight difference b/w 520 and 631 is not that much, actually

IRO has a MARK V frameset that is pretty similar to their Angus frameset. Mark V is made out of 520 and Angus is made out of 631. They are the same weight.

The difference b/w 520 and 631 will be more in the feel of the bike than anything else. 631 feels "snappier" and more responsive, IMO.

mihlbach

Up to a pound of the excessive weight in fg/ss bikes comes from the absurdly heavy wheels, usually with boat anchor track hubs, 32-36 straight gauge spokes, and low end deep rims.

SS/FG drivetrain parts are much heavier than road parts (and also more durable). For instance, the cogs are thick steel, and if you have a flip flop with two cogs and lockrings, thats probably more than the weight of a cassette. SS freewheels are even heavier.

Naturally, steel frames and forks, regardless of quality, are also going to add pounds compared to high end carbon and alu road bikes.

Given these constraints, there isn't much you can do if on a tight budget. I've spent nearly $2000 on my 58cm EAI Bareknuckle (steel track frameset) and have it down to about 19.5 pounds, which includes front brake, bottle cage, lighter custom wheels, and all fairly high end light weight parts (stem, bars, seat, post, pedals). There's really not much I can do to get it much lighter without removing the brake, bottle cage, or other radically expensive upgrades. At this point, my only options for significant weight loss would be a carbon fork, tubular rims, or ditch the Sugino 75 crank and BB for a more weight weenie road crank and bb. None of these upgrades are worth the cost. A carbon fork might be the best option, but I'm simply not going to find one with the correct geometry for my frame, nor do I want to sacrifice the uber-stiffness of my steel track fork, since I spend a lot of time on this bike hammering out of the saddle.

However, I don't see the point of the weight concern if its for commuting. I certainly don't notice the 3 pound difference between my road and FG bike. Actually the FG feels lighter because its much much stiffer..the excessive stiffness of the steel track frame and fork (and non-dished rear wheel) adds weight but creates the illusion of lightness. The tradeoff is worth it IMHO, if you sprint or climb hills on it with a vein poppingly high gear ratio.

charlesduke

What's the weight difference between a deep v and a good lightweight wheel?

mihlbach

For example, a deep-v with phil hubs and 32 SG spokes is going to weigh something near 2300gms. My wheels with a road front hub and skewer, formula rear track hub, 30mm Kinlin Niobium rims, and 24/28 CX ray spokes is 1550 grams. Thats basically 1.5 pound difference. One can easily build a sub 1500 gram track wheelset, using road wheel parts (except the rear hub) that will be both strong and stiff for much less than a Phil/Deep V wheelset.

adriano 

phil woods rule the world. you cant be serious.

psirue

dumb question: what's the point of dishing a wheel?

jollysnowman

Long story short, multiple gear clusters are wider than single cogs.

das_pyrate

leaders are cheap and light, if you don't mind aluminum frames. everyone on this forum seem to hate them tho. i think they're perfectly fine.

mihlbach

To accomodate the wide multi-geared cassette of a geared bike. Its not required on a SS or FG.

Triple8Sol

Does anyone know the weight of a Motobecane Messenger? I guess it would be about the same as the Windsor Clockwork/Windsor Hour/Fuji Track, give or take a bit since the first two come with front/rear brakes while the last two don't.

mihlbach

My friends Dawes 52cm SST was about 22 pounds stock..with two brakes and unbutted frame. The Messenger is basically the same thing, but with a butted frame, so I imagine that its somewhere around 20-21 lbs, depending on size.

adriano 

weight is the only real difference between 520 and 631, and its not very drastic. its the geometry that will make the most noticeable difference.

PedallingATX

I don't think that's true. Theoretically, yes. 631 is stronger, so the tubes SHOULD be thinner and lighter, but I don't really notice the weight difference as much as the feel.

adriano 

im sure they feel very different, but that would be due to the geometry as opposed to the tubing.

TheDL

"An urban commuter"

I assume you want racks and fenders, and rims with more than 28 spokes? I think most of the commuting minded are more concerned about being bombproof rather than featherweight.

If you can be patient enough to wait for a fantastic CL deal to come along and convert it, that may be the way to go.

toytech

my leder 720tr frame weighs about 3.25 lbs in 51cm, pretty easy to build light off that, 19.5lbs with cheap parts and the boat anchor rolls seat. My new seat will shave 200 grams by itself, and when I get around to building a nice wheel set it will be a nice light bike. (feels pretty light right now compared to my dual suspension MTB)

Jswift369

Buy a crosslake sales bike off ebay. weighs nothing and its still going strong for me after a year of almost daily riding. Its also the cheapest bike available pretty much.

palladio

I've got a Soma Rush with Mavic Open Sport clincher rims and Maxxis Refuse tires. It weighs just over 19lbs. I also recently built up an 80's Colnago Super frame with tubulars. I haven't weighed the Colnago yet, but I suspect it's close to the weight of the Soma. However it feels much lighter and more responsive when riding. This is probably due to the lighter wheels. If you're looking for a light bike I'd focus on reducing rotating weight with the wheels/tires as you will likely notice this much more than saving a weight on a frame/fork.

Saddle Up

I find it hard to believe the Kilo comes in under 20lbs.