TurkeyPud

Ok, we all know that we should all be buying the fancy dancy elitist frames and sugino cranks and all that overpriced designer hipster snot for a custom fg/ss project, I don't want to hear it. Here's the deal, many people want a bike, don't need gears, don't care about 'street cred', and have a capped budget. with that, bikesdirect has some reasonable stuff with decent components, and performance bikes does similar stuff with slamin deals sometimes.

i was between the dawes/windsor and scattante (please don't point out the 'root word' hilarity) empire state. last week i ordered a dawes sst because it was in stock and 320. but yesterday performance just went on the deal of day with the empire state, dropping the price from 399 to 269 with 15% off. i didn't want to miss out and sorta bought the empire state too (243). i want to see which i prefer and sell the other on cl. just wondering the what's up with the two, how similar are they? how much could the scattante actually be worth? opinions? thanks yo.

cc700

they're pretty comparable. the scattante would catch more money on cl just because it's more rare.

i have no clue which you'll like more.

Mr Danw

If BD can give you free tune ups and adjustments including wheel truing go for it. See if PB has a store near you

TurkeyPud

thanks. Now i want to invite some alternative responses.

I hear so many snobs talk about BD and Performance bikes are junky. I just got the Dawes SST and threw it together yesterday and it seems pretty good quality. Same components as some more pricey bikes and same weight...same frame material. So what is it that makes this below standards for so many? Affordability? Ease? Let's have it.

frymaster

it's not that the sub-500 off-the-peg bikes are 'junky' per se, it's that as you ride more you start to notice and appreciate marginal improvements in things like components and assembly.

this leads, inevitably, to an upgrade path.... which leads, inevitably, to you spending money on new components. eventually, perhaps several years later, you realize that if you had just spent all your upgrade money on one bike back at the very beginning you would have got a better deal... and for some people this leads to remorse and bitterness which expresses itself in the trash-talking of online bike retailers.

now, me, i love the upgrade process. sure, you will spend more on a collections of parts than a pre-assembled bike of similar quality, but when you go the upgrade route you

a) get the parts you want, not the ones that came with the package and
b) get the joy of spending hours reading reviews and comparisons of various wheels or saddles or whatever. okay, maybe only i find that stuff fun...

so, i'm all in favour of you, or anyone, getting a cheapie off-das-peg bike as long as you recognize that you will want to be upgrading and are happy with that process.

xB_Nutt

You get what you pay for. It's like this for everything in life. If you are content with a BD or Performance then that is cool. I personally enjoy building from scratch. The endless hours of parts research and looking for deals is something I enjoy. I also think that it is worth it to spend more on certain parts if they provide enhanced performance. The general rule with bike parts is the lighter the part, the more money you are going to pay for it. Bottom line is ride what you like and most importantly ride!

TurkeyPud

I agree with you fry that upgrading must be great. I've actually spent countless hours researching different parts. Pretty much in the past few months i've learned more about bikes than i ever wanted. I'm building a single speed as well, from used parts at a local co-op. This is the cheapest way by far, but you're limited by availability. Therefore I wanted to build my own from several NIB parts.

But I don't agree that you get what you pay for, nutt. First of all, I can pay 50-60% less for a component if I find it on sale at chainlove or bonktown, as opposed to the local bike store. Bidding low on ebay, bikeisland...There are ways of getting the same thing for cheaper if you have time and patience. But mostly, when you pay, you pay for a name or a licensing fee. Plastering a "name brand" decal on a product doesn't change its quality. That same product could have a 'no name' decal and charge half the price. Can anyone tell me the differenct in quality between the Dawes track frame and a Bianchi track frame, besides price and appeal?

And as for building it yourself, its definitely more fun. But for example, I pay almost twice as much for just the compenents alone than if I buy them on a Performance bike. Here's an example:

Formula flip flop hub: $50
Formula front hub: $40
Alex r500 rims x2: $70
Kenda k176 tires x2: $28
64 spokes: $18
Wheelset total: $206 (buy for $135 built)
Velo Saddle: $25
FSA Vero crankset: $50
Tektro brake kit: $40
Alloy stem + post: $35
Aheadset (cheap): $15
Wellgo strap pedals:$20
Total w/o frame-fork: $394 (add min. $200 for cheap frameset)
These components on the Dawes SST for $320 or the PB SS bike for $243, most of these components on Schwinn Sprint for $999.

So, why not just buy a whole bike, strip off the components, put them on a "trendy" frame, and sell the old frame. What's the difference?

frymaster

co-ops are far and away the best place to hang out if you're looking for deals, knowledge and community and i preach the local co-op to all who will listen (which, apparently, makes me "annoying" and a "pain in the ass to be around"... at least according to my friends). and there are good deals to be had there too if you are willing to be patient. heck, i picked up a shiny set of mid-eighties modolo brakes and levers for $10 at my local co-op this year...

hm. maybe it's time to go see what's in the barrel-o-threaded-forks....

time bandit

take the wheels to a real bike shop before riding either, as both are assembled out of the box without any truing.

traitorhound

They do. So long as you buy it from one of their LBS's that they have around (Cycle Spectrum AZ,TX and FL). They gave me free maintenance for the life of the bike when I bought my Fantom Cross Uno a couple weeks ago. Granted I probably will never use maintenance since I do all my own work but its a nice gesture for people that don't really want to wrench on their own stuff.

LupinIII

I went to a local co-op because i needed a single toe clip because i broke mine. i saw that they had a lone, unpaired clip so i figured i'd pay like 3-5 bucks for it. they wanted 5 dollars for the clip and 5 dollars for shop time (even though i never touched a tool while i was there)

went on CL and got a pair of used mks clips for 5 bucks. ymmv



oh and TurkeyPud, where did you price spokes at? the ones i see usually come out to a dollar for a spoke and nipple. that said...

$40- Iro high flange hub set (basically formulas)
$20- rims off ebay (maybe some old aluminum rigidas or something. i got my aeroheads at around this price)
$60- spokes (at least what it seems to cost from places like wheelbuilder or cambria bike
$40- tires and tubes

so about $160, which i think is fair seeing as the rimset will probably be cooler and have a higher resale value than some alexrims ones. better yet, bells bike shop has some veeps to formulas for 148 shipped, which seems like a decent deal.