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  1. #1
    Senior Member icelemmings's Avatar
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    MASH Tour of California

    Honestly, how do their knees hold up to that? Skidding to speed-check down a massive hill when they are spinning at what looks to be easily 150+

    They are an extremely adept group of riders. I am not questioning that. But, really, even so, their knees must all be getting wrecked. Is there anything they are doing to keep them in shape?

  2. #2
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    No matter what speed you are going, all you have to do is break the traction of the rear tire and then you are in a skid. It's not going to hurt your knees any more than holding a coaster brake. I would imagine it's the transition from spin to lock and back that is where skill and finesse come into the picture.

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    Senior Member icelemmings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kersnert View Post
    No matter what speed you are going, all you have to do is break the traction of the rear tire and then you are in a skid. It's not going to hurt your knees any more than holding a coaster brake. I would imagine it's the transition from spin to lock and back that is where skill and finesse come into the picture.
    True. I still wonder about those climbs. That said, I don't know the route they took.

    And, agreed, getting back into their cadence without batting an eye after skidding mid-hill was always impressive.

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    * adriano's Avatar
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    it must be their airblaster leashes.

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    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kersnert View Post
    No matter what speed you are going, all you have to do is break the traction of the rear tire and then you are in a skid. It's not going to hurt your knees any more than holding a coaster brake. I would imagine it's the transition from spin to lock and back that is where skill and finesse come into the picture.
    Not necessarily true about the not harming the knees. Skidding is a function of torque vs the friction of the tire on the ground.

    High torque (low gear) + low friction (wet pavement) = Easy to skid
    High torque (low gear) + high friction (grippy rubber and dry cement) = Moderate skids
    Low torque (high gear) + low friction (wet pavement) = Moderate skids
    Low torque (high gear) + high friction (grippy rubber and dry cement) = Hard to skid

    It requires very little force to active a coaster brake. The back pedaling simply engages a mechanical system. You could activate a coaster brake with your big toe.

    The riders likely had a moderate gear ratio and yeah, their knees probably took a beating.

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    Senior Member
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    If i remember correctly they installed brakes for the tour, so they weren't relying on skidding all the time.

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    hey happytruck's Avatar
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  8. #8
    jpdesjar
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    Ah yes, the old ted shred.
    I see that the chain has been thrown here.

  9. #9
    Senior Member icelemmings's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adriano View Post
    it must be their airblaster leashes.
    Man, you can pack SO many gel packets in the leg bags. They are releasing a new MASH x Airblaster bag next season. Super aero too.

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    DRUNKDRIVER Zachee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    High torque (low gear) + low friction (wet pavement) = Easy to skid
    High torque (low gear) + high friction (grippy rubber and dry cement) = Moderate skids
    Low torque (high gear) + low friction (wet pavement) = Moderate skids
    Low torque (high gear) + high friction (grippy rubber and dry cement) = Hard to skid
    I'm not really understanding what you are saying with the torque? With a higher gear you have to apply more torque to lock up the back wheel.

  11. #11
    Ride for Life wearyourtruth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jpdesjar View Post
    Ah yes, the old ted shred.
    I see that the chain has been thrown here.
    it would have to be. it's hard to ted shred fixed when your other foot has to keep pedaling (unless you double shredded!)
    before posting, a "noob" should always ask themselves "could this have been answered by first visiting Sheldon Brown

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    DRUNKDRIVER Zachee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wearyourtruth View Post
    it would have to be. it's hard to ted shred fixed when your other foot has to keep pedaling (unless you double shredded!)
    The infamous double shred!!? impossible.

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    Elitist carleton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachee View Post
    I'm not really understanding what you are saying with the torque? With a higher gear you have to apply more torque to lock up the back wheel.
    My terms are probably wrong. I'm not a physicist.

    Think of a 18 wheeler. That 18 wheeler goes through like 5 gears just to get to 30MPH. 5 low gears to move the heavy weight without taxing the engine, but the speed gains are small.

    Same applies to bikes. The use of small gears require less force to start (or stop) the mass.

    Take a road bike for example: Try to do a wheelie in a large gear. Now try it in the small gear. Which one moved the mass (you) faster?

  14. #14
    DRUNKDRIVER Zachee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carleton View Post
    My terms are probably wrong. I'm not a physicist.

    Think of a 18 wheeler. That 18 wheeler goes through like 5 gears just to get to 30MPH. 5 low gears to move the heavy weight without taxing the engine, but the speed gains are small.

    Same applies to bikes. The use of small gears require less force to start (or stop) the mass.

    Take a road bike for example: Try to do a wheelie in a large gear. Now try it in the small gear. Which one moved the mass (you) faster?
    Yea that makes sense. Sorry for trying to correct you, I am an engineer lol. But yea mashing up a hill with a higher gear will require more torque and more taxing on your knees and similarly stopping with a higher gear will also require more torque than a lower gear at the same speed.

  15. #15
    I just wanna ride stryper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wearyourtruth View Post
    it would have to be. it's hard to ted shred fixed when your other foot has to keep pedaling (unless you double shredded!)
    In a proper ted shred you would be using your toes, not your heel (although shoes with clips would get in the way) and you lock up the tire same as with any other slide, so your other foot doesn't continue to rotate.

    But that picture is a perfect example of why a brake less rider should know how to ted stop. If your chain breaks or derails and you need to stop... who ya gonna call, GHOSTBUSTERS.

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    Ride for Life wearyourtruth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stryper View Post
    In a proper ted shred you would be using your toes, not your heel (although shoes with clips would get in the way) and you lock up the tire same as with any other slide, so your other foot doesn't continue to rotate.
    i beg to differ. first of all, riding a fixed gear and locking up the rear wheel means that putting your other foot on the tire isn't doing **** because the wheel is already stopped. also, in a "proper" ted shred, provided doing it "proper" means doing it the way he does it, he is using his heel, definitely not his toe, and it is most definitely a freewheel.

    i cite exhibit A, exhibit B, and exhibit C.
    before posting, a "noob" should always ask themselves "could this have been answered by first visiting Sheldon Brown

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  17. #17
    Senior Member beeftech's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by happytruck View Post
    Nothing like having to put a gap in $250 shoes that only serve the purpose of riding a bike.

    Also skidding with clipless is crazy easier than clips, I'm sure the mash guy's knees are fine.

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    Tires blowing out would worry me more than murdering my shoe soles...

  19. #19
    JuNKie! bike junkie! sniks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beeftech View Post
    Nothing like having to put a gap in $250 shoes that only serve the purpose of riding a bike.

    Also skidding with clipless is crazy easier than clips, I'm sure the mash guy's knees are fine.
    $250 shoe with holes are better than crashing and losing teeth when you throw a chain

  20. #20
    hey happytruck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sniks View Post
    $250 shoe with holes are better than crashing and losing teeth when you throw a chain
    Yep. But how about a brake or two?

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    DRUNKDRIVER Zachee's Avatar
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    If I were to do that raced fixed (which I wouldn't and couldn't) I would be using two brakes. But hey those MASH guys have something to prove.

  22. #22
    steel lover
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    Anyone think maybe he derailed the chain to coast the downhill? I've seen some people just unclip... but at some speeds, I'd MUCH rather have the pedals stopped.

    If there is a LOT of decending coming up, and you've just mashed a hill... I think I'd take the time to coast, and leave myself a stationary pedal to balance on.

    (BTW, I have no knowledge of it... it just makes sense to me)
    No lugs, no care.

  23. #23
    Comanche Racing PedallingATX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevy42083 View Post
    Anyone think maybe he derailed the chain to coast the downhill? I've seen some people just unclip... but at some speeds, I'd MUCH rather have the pedals stopped.

    If there is a LOT of decending coming up, and you've just mashed a hill... I think I'd take the time to coast, and leave myself a stationary pedal to balance on.

    (BTW, I have no knowledge of it... it just makes sense to me)
    Definitely not. That's a DANGEROUS way to get a breather. If you need to take a break on a fixed gear bike, you just let your legs go limp. then they spin like yarn in a sewing machine and it doesn't require effort on your part. Not quite as good as coasting, but it's what I do on nearly every downhill since I have a brake.
    skinnytire

  24. #24
    * adriano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PedallingATX View Post
    Definitely not. That's a DANGEROUS way to get a breather. If you need to take a break on a fixed gear bike, you just let your legs go limp. then they spin like yarn in a sewing machine and it doesn't require effort on your part. Not quite as good as coasting, but it's what I do on nearly every downhill since I have a brake.
    in some instances, its even better than coasting.

  25. #25
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    If only there was some sort of a one-way clutch you could install that would allow the rear hub to overrun the drivetrain if the wheel was operating at a speed higher than the input...

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