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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 07-22-09, 02:31 AM   #1
artfiend
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Toes hit front tire when i turn

I was test riding one of my friends FG bikes that i was going to buy off him but when i turn my toes hit the front tire.. Is that something I could fix by either getting smaller rims or shorter cranks? or what is the problem? anybody got any ideas?
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Old 07-22-09, 02:33 AM   #2
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Its called toe-overlap.

Common on most track frames. Just get used to it. Or try a 165mm crank.
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Old 07-22-09, 02:39 AM   #3
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aight thanks man
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Old 07-22-09, 02:40 AM   #4
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try shorter clips, too, if you're using larger platform pedals like gr-9s
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Old 07-22-09, 04:20 AM   #5
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Oh no, the track bike is too track!
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Old 07-22-09, 05:19 AM   #6
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It's not mentioned very often but this a practical reason for running a 650 in the front.
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Old 07-22-09, 06:19 AM   #7
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I've just built up my first "track" bike and ran into the same toe overlap problem. Partly, it's because my frame is so small. I've switched to a 650 up front and toe overlap is reduced.
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Old 07-22-09, 06:36 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by amor fati View Post
It's not mentioned very often but this a practical reason for running a 650 in the front.
No, it's the practical reason for learning how to ride your bike properly. Toe down or time your tight turns. Personally, I would never put a 650c wheel on a bike that I intended to ride seriously ever.

Dave Moulton said it well:
http://davesbikeblog.blogspot.com/20...o-problem.html

Toe overlap is not a problem because riding and cornering at normal speed the front wheel never turns far enough for the toe to hit the front wheel. The only time it becomes an issue is when turning sharply at a very slow speed; doing a U-turn on a very narrow road for example. Caution and common sense are all that is required when executing a tight U-turn.
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Old 07-22-09, 06:46 AM   #9
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ride faster.
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Old 07-22-09, 06:59 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
No, it's the practical reason for learning how to ride your bike properly. Toe down or time your tight turns. Personally, I would never put a 650c wheel on a bike that I intended to ride seriously ever.

Dave Moulton said it well:
http://davesbikeblog.blogspot.com/20...o-problem.html

Toe overlap is not a problem because riding and cornering at normal speed the front wheel never turns far enough for the toe to hit the front wheel. The only time it becomes an issue is when turning sharply at a very slow speed; doing a U-turn on a very narrow road for example. Caution and common sense are all that is required when executing a tight U-turn.
Well said
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Old 07-22-09, 07:19 AM   #11
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Normal, get used to it. I have toe-overlap (not much) on my road bikes (one fixed, one not).
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Old 07-22-09, 07:26 AM   #12
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easiest option to retain the integrity of the bicycle: remove toes. no toe-overlap.

seriously though, overlap happens. especially on track bikes. Ain't exactly designed for extreme angle turns.
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Old 07-22-09, 07:46 AM   #13
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Putting a 650c wheel on a bike that's designed for a larger wheel is dumb. It screws up the way your bike handles.
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Old 07-22-09, 07:55 AM   #14
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It's the natural result of a fixed gear bike meant for track racing with steep frame angles, little fork rake and a short top tube. Fixed gears meant for road use usually have more shallow frame angles, more fork rake and longer top tubes so there is plenty of toe clearance, even with long cranks and big feet. All of my road fixies have been based on relaxed geometry and have plently of toe clearance. They also ride a lot more comfortably on the road than a pure track racing bike. I never ride my track racing bikes on the road and never ride my road fixies on the track.
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Old 07-22-09, 08:07 AM   #15
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Every bike I've ever owned, road or track, has had toe overlap. Happens with small frames.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinnyland View Post
Putting a 650c wheel on a bike that's designed for a larger wheel is dumb. It screws up the way your bike handles.
Indeed. Mostly, I think, improving handling at 2mph at the expense of handling at 16-30 mph is silly. At which speed does one spend more time?
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Old 07-22-09, 08:23 AM   #16
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Yeah unless you have a pursuit frame or 650 fork, don't bother with a smaller front wheel.
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Old 07-22-09, 08:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
Every bike I've ever owned, road or track, has had toe overlap. Happens with small frames.
Curious, because I am only 5'-3" with a 27" inseam and all my frames are at most 49 cm. Yet, most of them have no toe overlap. Granted, I use 165mm cranks and have size 7.5 feet, but it still comes down to frame design. My most recent road fixie is based on a track frame that has an unusually long top tube, so in spite of a steep head angle and little fork rake, it does not have any toe overlap. So why do I care? Namely, when I mess around with it on the road, I like to be able to pull tight turns and other moves that might involve crossing the toes and wheel when the cranks are horizontal. Different strokes for different folks.

Last edited by TejanoTrackie; 07-22-09 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 07-22-09, 09:00 AM   #18
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along with my 650 front wheel, when i'm riding in circles in a parking space, i find it practical to run tiny risers so i don't hit my frame with the bars. oh and my rear aerospoke is quite practical when it comes to not having to true my wheels. of course with the 650 wheel on a 700 fork, it's not possible to run a front brake, and it's just not practical to run a rear one, so i just don't.

all in all, i think i have a very practical bike.
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Old 07-22-09, 09:04 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
Curious, because I am only 5'-3" with a 27" inseam and all my frames are at most 49 cm. Yet, most of them have no toe overlap. Granted, I use 165mm cranks and have size 7.5 feet, but it still comes down to frame design. My most recent road fixie is based on a track frame that has an unusually long top tube, so in spite of a steep head angle and little fork rake, it does not have any toe overlap. So why do I care? Namely, when I mess around with it on the road, I like to be able to pull tight turns and other moves that might involve crossing the toes and wheel when the cranks or horizontal. Different strokes for different folks.
Even on my Felt TK2, which has foot overlap - i mean, even the pedal hits the wheel, and my crank only clears it by a few millimeters - is rideable in traffic. It's not fun, but if you're coordinated enough to point your toe down when you turn your wheel, you can do it.

Given the option, if it could be done without compromising handling and fit and crap like that, I wouldn't have toe overlap. But that's not how it works and since it can be dealt with using a modicum of coordination, making handling changes to the bike, or making bike selection decisions based on overlap, is not worth it to me.
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Old 07-22-09, 09:06 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by amor fati View Post
It's not mentioned very often but this a practical reason for running a 650 in the front.
Sage advice!!!
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Old 07-22-09, 09:21 AM   #21
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Sage advice!!!
lulz
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Old 07-22-09, 10:16 AM   #22
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toe overlap is really common my suggestion is to get used to it if you use smaller toe clips you can cause all kinds of foot discomfort and even damage to the tissues since you foot would be in an unnatural position
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Old 07-22-09, 11:31 AM   #23
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You can also replace the fork with one with a larger rake. But I agree with most of the comments here, it's common on track frames and when you learn to ride one, you'll avoid it.
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Old 07-22-09, 01:48 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queerpunk View Post
Even on my Felt TK2, which has foot overlap - i mean, even the pedal hits the wheel, and my crank only clears it by a few millimeters - is rideable in traffic. It's not fun, but if you're coordinated enough to point your toe down when you turn your wheel, you can do it.

Given the option, if it could be done without compromising handling and fit and crap like that, I wouldn't have toe overlap. But that's not how it works and since it can be dealt with using a modicum of coordination, making handling changes to the bike, or making bike selection decisions based on overlap, is not worth it to me.
Hey. The Felt TK2 is an awesome track bike designed specifically for racing on banked tracks. Several fellow track racers own a TK2 and love it, but only ride it on the track. It was never intended for road use. So, it's become the hot fad by hipsters to use pure track bikes as road fixies, and I have no problem with that, it's just not my deal. I've raced track bikes on velodromes seriously and at a pretty high level for over 30 years, and I doubt you are any more skillful a bike handler than me. I can do track stands, quick maneuvers and even jump turns, but when I'm on the road riding with other people just chilling I don't want to have to concentrate on bike skills or timing or weird body contortions. So having a bike that doesn't have a toe overlap issue is worthwhile to me. As far as your implication that a bike with no overlap might not handle or fit properly, that is sheer nonsense. As a case in point, my current track racing bike is a 2006 Bianchi Pista Concept, which is a pure serious track racer with no provision for brakes, that is very stiff and steers very quickly. It also fits me properly. I have ridden it on a steep track with 44 degree banking at over 40 mph behind a motor, and raced many match sprints on it. I never ride it on the road. So, why do I bring this up? Well, as it turns out, the Bianchi has no toe overlap. I don't know why, and it really doesn't matter on the track, but it just goes to show that it doesn't follow that unless a bike has a lot of toe overlap, it will handle like a dog and not fit right.
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Old 07-22-09, 02:05 PM   #25
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It's not mentioned very often but this a practical reason for running a 650 in the front.
leet barspins bro
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