Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-21-09, 11:14 PM   #1
sleepless
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly
Bikes: Raleigh SGP soon to be fixed
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Raleigh Conversion Budget build (kinda)

Hello,
Glad I found this wonderful spot, you guys(&girls) seem to know just about everything. I've been lurking for a while and soaking up info like a sponge. It's really annoying when the new kids on the block shine a spotlight on their ignorance by creating "tell me what to do" threads, so I'll try to keep this from going that direction.

On to the pt. Here's my plan (& budget), any glaring problems you see that I've overlooked please enlighten me. Hopefully, the next batch of users with Raleigh BB and "list every part on a bike" questions can benefit from this too.

1978 lugged Raleigh Super Grand Prix frame in good condition, 58 ctc - $45 from LBS in Philly
(71mm BB shell)
>solid Fit Calculator
Used front fork from LBS, also Raleigh (nice!) - $15
No-name headset - $10
Mavic CXP 700cc Black Rims w/ Formula Sealed Bearings (Fixed/Free Hub) - $165 + 22 shipping

Surly Dingle (double) cog, 17/20t - $36
2 5mm cog spacers - $1 each
Black 3/32" quality chain; Izumi, Sram ~$10
Lockring - ??
Black 165mm Cranks (< foot scrape); Bulletproof, IRO, ect. ~$40
Dual chainring, black - ??
Generic cartridge BB, 110mm spindle- $25
>retapping 26tpi [Made in England] Raleigh threads to 24tpi @ LBS for no future hassels
>edit: done! $20

Cheap Metal Pedals(black) + Toe Straps ~25
Front brake + cable + new pads, Used ~$25
Seatpost - free @ bikechurch co-op
Saddle (not Brooks) ~$25
Stem(black) - free @ bikechurch
Bullhorns, chopped - free @ bikechurch
Candy Apple Green powdercoat + sandblast + clearcoat (frame+fork)~ $150
>Don't have the space or materials for DIY rattle can in my new place, otherwise I'd do it myself

>great design tool
1 roll Green tape ~$5
1 roll Black tape (harlequin wrap) ~$5
Tires + tubes ~$30 @Nashbar closeout

Already bought the first bit. I'd love some direction on the dual chainrings upfront and BB purchases, any recommendations? I haven't figured out BB spindle size on 24tpi, 71mm yet. Will resurfacing be mandatory?

Thanks
sleepless

Last edited by sleepless; 09-23-09 at 11:52 PM.
sleepless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-09, 03:06 AM   #2
suspencer
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cola, SC
Bikes: IRO Mark V Pro
Posts: 4
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
sounds like it's gonna be an awesome bike! not too sure about the dual chainrings though. PICS!
suspencer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-09, 03:46 AM   #3
HandsomeRyan
Pants are for suckaz
 
HandsomeRyan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mt. Airy, MD
Bikes: Hardtail MTB, Fixed gear, and Commuter bike
Posts: 2,578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Whats up with the dual chainring? You'll need 2 chains if you go this way.
HandsomeRyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-09, 06:25 AM   #4
mkeller234
Rustbelt Rider
 
mkeller234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Canton, OH
Bikes: 1990 Trek 1420 - 1978 Raleigh Professional - 1973 Schwinn Collegiate - 1974 Schwinn Suburban
Posts: 8,295
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Do you have the old bottom bracket cups? Or were they not included with the frame? If you have the old ones I would use them if possible.
__________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^| ||
|......GO.BROWNS........| ||'|";, ___.
|_..._..._______===|=||_|__|..., ] -
"(@)'(@)"""''"**|(@)(@)*****''(@)
mkeller234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-09, 06:55 AM   #5
Retro Grouch 
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Bikes: Rans Rockst (Retro rocket) Rans Enduro Sport (Retro racket) Catrike 559, Merin Bear Valley (beater bike).
Posts: 26,631
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Budget build? Sounds to me like a TON of money to spend on a 1978 Raleigh Super Grand Prix conversion.
Retro Grouch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-09, 07:54 AM   #6
sleepless
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly
Bikes: Raleigh SGP soon to be fixed
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
Whats up with the dual chainring? You'll need 2 chains if you go this way.
Surly Dingle
As long as the tooth difference is the same front and back, I can just pop the chain over for flatland(road) vs hilly(trails). i.e. 17-44, 20-41 or something along those lines

I picked up the frame, no bells and whistles. The fixed cup is still on there, which will be a ***** to take off but I'll manage.

The goal in mind is budget beater but i don't mind missing that target, i've got a few bones to drop. The build is half the fun (mech engineer here).
sleepless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-09, 08:12 AM   #7
HandsomeRyan
Pants are for suckaz
 
HandsomeRyan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mt. Airy, MD
Bikes: Hardtail MTB, Fixed gear, and Commuter bike
Posts: 2,578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
Surly Dingle
As long as the tooth difference is the same front and back, I can just pop the chain over for flatland(road) vs hilly(trails). i.e. 17-44, 20-41 or something along those lines

I picked up the frame, no bells and whistles. The fixed cup is still on there, which will be a ***** to take off but I'll manage.

The goal in mind is budget beater but i don't mind missing that target, i've got a few bones to drop. The build is half the fun (mech engineer here).
It seems like you'd save weight, cost, and complexity by just getting a fixed/fixed flip-flop hub and 2 cogs. What kind of riding are you planning on doing that requires [roughly*] 70 gear inches and [roughly*] 55 gear inches?

*estimates based on 42/44 chainrings, 165mm cranks, and a 700x25mm tire.

/I'm not trying to hate on your build, I'm trying to understand the "why" behind it.
HandsomeRyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-09, 09:55 AM   #8
seau grateau
Senior Member
 
seau grateau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: LA
Bikes: Shogun Selectra, Dolan Pre Cursa, Ridley Fenix AL
Posts: 6,985
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Run two chains. It'll be so sick.
seau grateau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-09, 01:01 PM   #9
sleepless
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly
Bikes: Raleigh SGP soon to be fixed
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
It seems like you'd save weight, cost, and complexity by just getting a fixed/fixed flip-flop hub and 2 cogs. What kind of riding are you planning on doing that requires [roughly*] 70 gear inches and [roughly*] 55 gear inches?
As much as the fg is touted as being "not practical" for anything beyond relatively mild terrain and fast jaunts through traffic, I love its simplicity and efficiency in power transfer. The fixed gear bike is a beautiful machine. Add a freewheel AND dual cogs and you have a versatile beast that retains its direct connection to the road. Granted it may be overkill, but I like options. If you have strong arguments against, I welcome the discussion.

"The project for today is to convert the [prim and proper Raleigh SGP] into a Swiss Army bicycle of category crushing death."

Last edited by sleepless; 09-22-09 at 01:13 PM.
sleepless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-09, 02:05 PM   #10
HandsomeRyan
Pants are for suckaz
 
HandsomeRyan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mt. Airy, MD
Bikes: Hardtail MTB, Fixed gear, and Commuter bike
Posts: 2,578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
"The project for today is to convert the [prim and proper Raleigh SGP] into a Swiss Army bicycle of category crushing death."
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
If you have strong arguments against, I welcome the discussion.
What you need is the (yet unreleased) S.S.A. S3X 3 speed fixed gear hub. Just thinking about the awesome this hub will unleash upon the world in a couple months is enough to take your breath away.
HandsomeRyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-22-09, 08:53 PM   #11
sleepless
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly
Bikes: Raleigh SGP soon to be fixed
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
What you need is the (yet unreleased) S.S.A. S3X 3 speed fixed gear hub. Just thinking about the awesome this hub will unleash upon the world in a couple months is enough to take your breath away.
Ahh, interesting thought. Though this does add shifting to the mix, it looks like they've packaged it up nice. I have no knowledge of multi-speed hubs, how do they go about changing the gear ratio?
sleepless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-09, 06:08 AM   #12
HandsomeRyan
Pants are for suckaz
 
HandsomeRyan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Mt. Airy, MD
Bikes: Hardtail MTB, Fixed gear, and Commuter bike
Posts: 2,578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
Ahh, interesting thought. Though this does add shifting to the mix, it looks like they've packaged it up nice. I have no knowledge of multi-speed hubs, how do they go about changing the gear ratio?
Shifting = ability to change ratios on the fly.
Your current proposed setup = a wrench and a few minutes off the bike to change ratios and greasy finger when you are finished.

The hubs have magic elves that live inside them (much like the Keebler cookie factory inside a tree trunk). No one really understands how they work because if you crack one open the elves use their magic to turn into a series of planetary gears and linkages.
HandsomeRyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-09, 12:01 AM   #13
sleepless
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly
Bikes: Raleigh SGP soon to be fixed
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
The hubs have magic elves that live inside them (much like the Keebler cookie factory inside a tree trunk). No one really understands how they work because if you crack one open the elves use their magic to turn into a series of planetary gears and linkages.
quoted more for posterity than anything else.
Damitt, I must know their secrets! Wait, what if they wear out, get old, or -knock on wood- DIE? Can i get replacement elves??


Retapped the BB today! piece o cake, done in 20 minutes. I wish I had their tools *drool*
110 mm spindle takes out one variable in teh pick-a-crankset equation. How big of a difference do you think I'd get with a dingle and only ONE chainring?

Also found out the headset I bought isn't the right threading. Should've guessed Raleigh's had different fork threading too..

Next up: powder coating mmm
sleepless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-09, 12:25 AM   #14
PluperfectArson
沒有腳踏車的居民
 
PluperfectArson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Honolulu, HI
Bikes: Mericier Kilo TT Pro
Posts: 1,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
greasy finger when you are finished.
Handlebar tape makes a nice napkin.

I had to fix my back wheel, had black hands, then rode the rest of the way to the spot. My hands were practically clean by the time I arrived.
PluperfectArson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-09, 12:33 AM   #15
psirue
curmudgeon
 
psirue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NYC
Bikes:
Posts: 647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
if you're going to be changing gears, why not...uhh...put some gears on the bike?
psirue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-09, 09:46 AM   #16
sleepless
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly
Bikes: Raleigh SGP soon to be fixed
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
i am. dual cog, dual chainring.

if you meant add the ability to shift gears, then-
because i don't need to change gears on the fly. derailers add complexity, lose efficiency, add maintenance.. everything fixed gear simplifies. I like the dirt! needing to always be clean is a character flaw.

hive mind is strong within you young one.
sleepless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-09, 12:17 PM   #17
bbattle
.
 
bbattle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rocket City, No'ala
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 5.2, 1985 Pinarello Trevisio, 1991 Colnago Master, '06 Bianchi San Jose, 1987 Moulton Fuso, 1990 Gardin Shred, '82 John Howard(Dave Tesch)
Posts: 12,550
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
Surly Dingle
As long as the tooth difference is the same front and back, I can just pop the chain over for flatland(road) vs hilly(trails). i.e. 17-44, 20-41 or something along those lines

I picked up the frame, no bells and whistles. The fixed cup is still on there, which will be a ***** to take off but I'll manage.

The goal in mind is budget beater but i don't mind missing that target, i've got a few bones to drop. The build is half the fun (mech engineer here).

I used a Sugino RD crankset for my Dingle setup, also a Raleigh (Sprite). I used a 48-44 with the 17-20 Dingle. The long horizontal dropouts mean the difference in cog teeth doesn't have to equal the difference in the chainring teeth. I run an 18T freewheel on the other side of the hub.

Even though I used 27" wheels, I still needed long reach brakes so check that before you buy brakes.
bbattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-09, 01:39 PM   #18
sleepless
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly
Bikes: Raleigh SGP soon to be fixed
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I like it. 17x48, 20x44 seems perfect after looking at the gear inches. btw, this is wonderful: upgrade to Sheldon's calc. Thanks for the tip. How do you like the 18t freewheel, and what kind of terrain does the Sprite see?

I assume 'track' cranks can still hold two chainrings, right? Any cranks with the same bcd

Edit: damm, I can't find an inexpensive crank with 130 bcd, 165 arms, 3/32, and 48t

Last edited by sleepless; 09-24-09 at 02:15 PM.
sleepless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-09, 01:48 PM   #19
foulmouthfool
Senior Member
 
foulmouthfool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 63
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
What you need is the (yet unreleased) S.S.A. S3X 3 speed fixed gear hub. Just thinking about the awesome this hub will unleash upon the world in a couple months is enough to take your breath away.

I want
foulmouthfool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-09, 02:07 PM   #20
milkcratebasket
poppawheelie
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Victoria / Gifu
Bikes: Panasonic, Super Cycle
Posts: 487
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
derailers lose efficiency.
Since cyclists' legs are most efficient over a narrow range of pedaling speeds (cadence), a variable gear ratio helps a cyclist to maintain an optimum pedaling speed while covering varied terrain.
milkcratebasket is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-09, 01:04 PM   #21
sleepless
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Philly
Bikes: Raleigh SGP soon to be fixed
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Update!
After exhaustively researching every damm crank, chainring, and pedal combination... I went to my LBS and picked up everything in one fell swoop. AND they had it all in black. LBS FT(super)W.

Picked up a decent Shimano 9-speed chain to make sure everything runs smooth. 44 & 48T 3/32 chainrings, 165 crank with a free 1/8 frisbee already on it. A decent set of metal pedals with a metal toe and black leather straps. Switched out the lugged Raleigh fork for a nice, modern welded fork to get the headset to fit. It's a bit long, I'll have to get it cut before install but there's tons of thread. Wheels should be here today, hells yeah.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milkcratebasket View Post
Since cyclists' legs are most efficient over a narrow range of pedaling speeds (cadence), a variable gear ratio helps a cyclist to maintain an optimum pedaling speed while covering varied terrain.
I agree. By inefficient I meant the variable gear system (derailer, chain tensioner, chain slack) robs the drivetrain of energy. Drive gear directly to driven gear (rear wheel) is the most efficient method to put power to the ground outside of a unicycle or penny farthing.

Next project

Last edited by sleepless; 09-25-09 at 01:12 PM.
sleepless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-09, 01:48 PM   #22
dsh
Oh, you know...
 
dsh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: DC
Bikes: '74 Schwinn Sports Tourer (Polo), S-Works E5 Team Festina (Chorus 11), Trek 2200 Bonded Carbon (Fixed), Trek 920 (7 speed IGH), Chesini Olimpiade SL (1x7)
Posts: 2,835
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
I agree. By inefficient I meant the variable gear system (derailer, chain tensioner, chain slack) robs the drivetrain of energy. Drive gear directly to driven gear (rear wheel) is the most efficient method to put power to the ground outside of a unicycle or penny farthing.
I think his point was that, while a geared/tensioned drivetrain may only be 98% as efficient as a fixed drivetrain because of friction losses in the derailleur or whatever, you as a cyclist are a lot less efficient mashing up a hill at 40RPM (in too high a gear) than you would be at 90RPM (in the correct gear).

Drivetrain inefficiency is more than outweighed by cadence inefficiency.

Instead of calls of efficiency, talk about how fixies are more zen. Or the simplicity appeals to your minimalistic chi.
Or, ya know, they're more fun and easier to pedal.
dsh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-09, 02:37 PM   #23
renton20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Minneapolis
Bikes: old lotus
Posts: 322
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
the only thing that I'm confused by is why you would spend 200 bucks on a frame and powdercoat when you could just spend 200 bucks on a better quality frame
renton20 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-09, 02:47 PM   #24
Sixty Fiver
Bicycle Repair Man !!!
 
Sixty Fiver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: YEG
Bikes: See my sig...
Posts: 27,262
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
I am a dingle cog away from finishing the upgrades to my fixed touring bike... I will be using a 17-20 DC and a 48/52 chain ring with a 19 tooth on the flip side to give me three gearings.

Last edited by Sixty Fiver; 09-25-09 at 05:39 PM.
Sixty Fiver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-09, 04:04 PM   #25
Sammyboy
The Legitimiser
 
Sammyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Southampton, UK
Bikes: Gazelle Trim Trophy, EG Bates Track Bike, HR Bates Cantiflex bike, Nigel Dean fixed gear conversion, Raleigh Royal, Falcon Westminster.
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
quoted more for posterity than anything else.
Damitt, I must know their secrets! Wait, what if they wear out, get old, or -knock on wood- DIE? Can i get replacement elves??
How big of a difference do you think I'd get with a dingle and only ONE chainring?
These hubs aren't out yet, so it's hard to say, but original non-fixed 3 speed Sturmey Archer hubs are indestructible, pretty much. I have a couple that are over 50 years old and still ticking away happily.

As far as the dingle and one chainring, you'd either need lovely long dropouts, or two chains. If you're going with the dingle, go with the double chainring too, but you'll have to make sure you get the right rings (2 teeth different - most are 42/52, which is, of course, 10 teeth different)
Sammyboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:01 AM.