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  1. #1
    Junior Member
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    Raleigh Conversion Budget build (kinda)

    Hello,
    Glad I found this wonderful spot, you guys(&girls) seem to know just about everything. I've been lurking for a while and soaking up info like a sponge. It's really annoying when the new kids on the block shine a spotlight on their ignorance by creating "tell me what to do" threads, so I'll try to keep this from going that direction.

    On to the pt. Here's my plan (& budget), any glaring problems you see that I've overlooked please enlighten me. Hopefully, the next batch of users with Raleigh BB and "list every part on a bike" questions can benefit from this too.

    1978 lugged Raleigh Super Grand Prix frame in good condition, 58 ctc - $45 from LBS in Philly
    (71mm BB shell)
    >solid Fit Calculator
    Used front fork from LBS, also Raleigh (nice!) - $15
    No-name headset - $10
    Mavic CXP 700cc Black Rims w/ Formula Sealed Bearings (Fixed/Free Hub) - $165 + 22 shipping

    Surly Dingle (double) cog, 17/20t - $36
    2 5mm cog spacers - $1 each
    Black 3/32" quality chain; Izumi, Sram ~$10
    Lockring - ??
    Black 165mm Cranks (< foot scrape); Bulletproof, IRO, ect. ~$40
    Dual chainring, black - ??
    Generic cartridge BB, 110mm spindle- $25
    >retapping 26tpi [Made in England] Raleigh threads to 24tpi @ LBS for no future hassels
    >edit: done! $20

    Cheap Metal Pedals(black) + Toe Straps ~25
    Front brake + cable + new pads, Used ~$25
    Seatpost - free @ bikechurch co-op
    Saddle (not Brooks) ~$25
    Stem(black) - free @ bikechurch
    Bullhorns, chopped - free @ bikechurch
    Candy Apple Green powdercoat + sandblast + clearcoat (frame+fork)~ $150
    >Don't have the space or materials for DIY rattle can in my new place, otherwise I'd do it myself

    >great design tool
    1 roll Green tape ~$5
    1 roll Black tape (harlequin wrap) ~$5
    Tires + tubes ~$30 @Nashbar closeout

    Already bought the first bit. I'd love some direction on the dual chainrings upfront and BB purchases, any recommendations? I haven't figured out BB spindle size on 24tpi, 71mm yet. Will resurfacing be mandatory?

    Thanks
    sleepless
    Last edited by sleepless; 09-23-09 at 11:52 PM.

  2. #2
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    sounds like it's gonna be an awesome bike! not too sure about the dual chainrings though. PICS!

  3. #3
    Pants are for suckaz HandsomeRyan's Avatar
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    Whats up with the dual chainring? You'll need 2 chains if you go this way.

  4. #4
    Rustbelt Rider mkeller234's Avatar
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    Do you have the old bottom bracket cups? Or were they not included with the frame? If you have the old ones I would use them if possible.
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  5. #5
    Senior Member Retro Grouch's Avatar
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    Budget build? Sounds to me like a TON of money to spend on a 1978 Raleigh Super Grand Prix conversion.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
    Whats up with the dual chainring? You'll need 2 chains if you go this way.
    Surly Dingle
    As long as the tooth difference is the same front and back, I can just pop the chain over for flatland(road) vs hilly(trails). i.e. 17-44, 20-41 or something along those lines

    I picked up the frame, no bells and whistles. The fixed cup is still on there, which will be a ***** to take off but I'll manage.

    The goal in mind is budget beater but i don't mind missing that target, i've got a few bones to drop. The build is half the fun (mech engineer here).

  7. #7
    Pants are for suckaz HandsomeRyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    Surly Dingle
    As long as the tooth difference is the same front and back, I can just pop the chain over for flatland(road) vs hilly(trails). i.e. 17-44, 20-41 or something along those lines

    I picked up the frame, no bells and whistles. The fixed cup is still on there, which will be a ***** to take off but I'll manage.

    The goal in mind is budget beater but i don't mind missing that target, i've got a few bones to drop. The build is half the fun (mech engineer here).
    It seems like you'd save weight, cost, and complexity by just getting a fixed/fixed flip-flop hub and 2 cogs. What kind of riding are you planning on doing that requires [roughly*] 70 gear inches and [roughly*] 55 gear inches?

    *estimates based on 42/44 chainrings, 165mm cranks, and a 700x25mm tire.

    /I'm not trying to hate on your build, I'm trying to understand the "why" behind it.

  8. #8
    Senior Member seau grateau's Avatar
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    Run two chains. It'll be so sick.

  9. #9
    Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
    It seems like you'd save weight, cost, and complexity by just getting a fixed/fixed flip-flop hub and 2 cogs. What kind of riding are you planning on doing that requires [roughly*] 70 gear inches and [roughly*] 55 gear inches?
    As much as the fg is touted as being "not practical" for anything beyond relatively mild terrain and fast jaunts through traffic, I love its simplicity and efficiency in power transfer. The fixed gear bike is a beautiful machine. Add a freewheel AND dual cogs and you have a versatile beast that retains its direct connection to the road. Granted it may be overkill, but I like options. If you have strong arguments against, I welcome the discussion.

    "The project for today is to convert the [prim and proper Raleigh SGP] into a Swiss Army bicycle of category crushing death."
    Last edited by sleepless; 09-22-09 at 01:13 PM.

  10. #10
    Pants are for suckaz HandsomeRyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    "The project for today is to convert the [prim and proper Raleigh SGP] into a Swiss Army bicycle of category crushing death."
    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    If you have strong arguments against, I welcome the discussion.
    What you need is the (yet unreleased) S.S.A. S3X 3 speed fixed gear hub. Just thinking about the awesome this hub will unleash upon the world in a couple months is enough to take your breath away.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
    What you need is the (yet unreleased) S.S.A. S3X 3 speed fixed gear hub. Just thinking about the awesome this hub will unleash upon the world in a couple months is enough to take your breath away.
    Ahh, interesting thought. Though this does add shifting to the mix, it looks like they've packaged it up nice. I have no knowledge of multi-speed hubs, how do they go about changing the gear ratio?

  12. #12
    Pants are for suckaz HandsomeRyan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    Ahh, interesting thought. Though this does add shifting to the mix, it looks like they've packaged it up nice. I have no knowledge of multi-speed hubs, how do they go about changing the gear ratio?
    Shifting = ability to change ratios on the fly.
    Your current proposed setup = a wrench and a few minutes off the bike to change ratios and greasy finger when you are finished.

    The hubs have magic elves that live inside them (much like the Keebler cookie factory inside a tree trunk). No one really understands how they work because if you crack one open the elves use their magic to turn into a series of planetary gears and linkages.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
    The hubs have magic elves that live inside them (much like the Keebler cookie factory inside a tree trunk). No one really understands how they work because if you crack one open the elves use their magic to turn into a series of planetary gears and linkages.
    quoted more for posterity than anything else.
    Damitt, I must know their secrets! Wait, what if they wear out, get old, or -knock on wood- DIE? Can i get replacement elves??


    Retapped the BB today! piece o cake, done in 20 minutes. I wish I had their tools *drool*
    110 mm spindle takes out one variable in teh pick-a-crankset equation. How big of a difference do you think I'd get with a dingle and only ONE chainring?

    Also found out the headset I bought isn't the right threading. Should've guessed Raleigh's had different fork threading too..

    Next up: powder coating mmm

  14. #14
    沒有腳踏車的居民 PluperfectArson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
    greasy finger when you are finished.
    Handlebar tape makes a nice napkin.

    I had to fix my back wheel, had black hands, then rode the rest of the way to the spot. My hands were practically clean by the time I arrived.

  15. #15
    curmudgeon psirue's Avatar
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    if you're going to be changing gears, why not...uhh...put some gears on the bike?

  16. #16
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    i am. dual cog, dual chainring.

    if you meant add the ability to shift gears, then-
    because i don't need to change gears on the fly. derailers add complexity, lose efficiency, add maintenance.. everything fixed gear simplifies. I like the dirt! needing to always be clean is a character flaw.

    hive mind is strong within you young one.

  17. #17
    . bbattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    Surly Dingle
    As long as the tooth difference is the same front and back, I can just pop the chain over for flatland(road) vs hilly(trails). i.e. 17-44, 20-41 or something along those lines

    I picked up the frame, no bells and whistles. The fixed cup is still on there, which will be a ***** to take off but I'll manage.

    The goal in mind is budget beater but i don't mind missing that target, i've got a few bones to drop. The build is half the fun (mech engineer here).

    I used a Sugino RD crankset for my Dingle setup, also a Raleigh (Sprite). I used a 48-44 with the 17-20 Dingle. The long horizontal dropouts mean the difference in cog teeth doesn't have to equal the difference in the chainring teeth. I run an 18T freewheel on the other side of the hub.

    Even though I used 27" wheels, I still needed long reach brakes so check that before you buy brakes.

  18. #18
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    I like it. 17x48, 20x44 seems perfect after looking at the gear inches. btw, this is wonderful: upgrade to Sheldon's calc. Thanks for the tip. How do you like the 18t freewheel, and what kind of terrain does the Sprite see?

    I assume 'track' cranks can still hold two chainrings, right? Any cranks with the same bcd

    Edit: damm, I can't find an inexpensive crank with 130 bcd, 165 arms, 3/32, and 48t
    Last edited by sleepless; 09-24-09 at 02:15 PM.

  19. #19
    Senior Member foulmouthfool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HandsomeRyan View Post
    What you need is the (yet unreleased) S.S.A. S3X 3 speed fixed gear hub. Just thinking about the awesome this hub will unleash upon the world in a couple months is enough to take your breath away.

    I want
    Marin Hamilton 29er
    Bianchi BUSS

    Quote Originally Posted by mkadam68 View Post
    DFL is better than DNF which is better than DNS.

  20. #20
    poppawheelie
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    derailers lose efficiency.
    Since cyclists' legs are most efficient over a narrow range of pedaling speeds (cadence), a variable gear ratio helps a cyclist to maintain an optimum pedaling speed while covering varied terrain.

  21. #21
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    Update!
    After exhaustively researching every damm crank, chainring, and pedal combination... I went to my LBS and picked up everything in one fell swoop. AND they had it all in black. LBS FT(super)W.

    Picked up a decent Shimano 9-speed chain to make sure everything runs smooth. 44 & 48T 3/32 chainrings, 165 crank with a free 1/8 frisbee already on it. A decent set of metal pedals with a metal toe and black leather straps. Switched out the lugged Raleigh fork for a nice, modern welded fork to get the headset to fit. It's a bit long, I'll have to get it cut before install but there's tons of thread. Wheels should be here today, hells yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by milkcratebasket View Post
    Since cyclists' legs are most efficient over a narrow range of pedaling speeds (cadence), a variable gear ratio helps a cyclist to maintain an optimum pedaling speed while covering varied terrain.
    I agree. By inefficient I meant the variable gear system (derailer, chain tensioner, chain slack) robs the drivetrain of energy. Drive gear directly to driven gear (rear wheel) is the most efficient method to put power to the ground outside of a unicycle or penny farthing.

    Next project
    Last edited by sleepless; 09-25-09 at 01:12 PM.

  22. #22
    dsh
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    I agree. By inefficient I meant the variable gear system (derailer, chain tensioner, chain slack) robs the drivetrain of energy. Drive gear directly to driven gear (rear wheel) is the most efficient method to put power to the ground outside of a unicycle or penny farthing.
    I think his point was that, while a geared/tensioned drivetrain may only be 98% as efficient as a fixed drivetrain because of friction losses in the derailleur or whatever, you as a cyclist are a lot less efficient mashing up a hill at 40RPM (in too high a gear) than you would be at 90RPM (in the correct gear).

    Drivetrain inefficiency is more than outweighed by cadence inefficiency.

    Instead of calls of efficiency, talk about how fixies are more zen. Or the simplicity appeals to your minimalistic chi.
    Or, ya know, they're more fun and easier to pedal.

  23. #23
    Senior Member renton20's Avatar
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    the only thing that I'm confused by is why you would spend 200 bucks on a frame and powdercoat when you could just spend 200 bucks on a better quality frame

  24. #24
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    I am a dingle cog away from finishing the upgrades to my fixed touring bike... I will be using a 17-20 DC and a 48/52 chain ring with a 19 tooth on the flip side to give me three gearings.
    Last edited by Sixty Fiver; 09-25-09 at 05:39 PM.

  25. #25
    The Legitimiser Sammyboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sleepless View Post
    quoted more for posterity than anything else.
    Damitt, I must know their secrets! Wait, what if they wear out, get old, or -knock on wood- DIE? Can i get replacement elves??
    How big of a difference do you think I'd get with a dingle and only ONE chainring?
    These hubs aren't out yet, so it's hard to say, but original non-fixed 3 speed Sturmey Archer hubs are indestructible, pretty much. I have a couple that are over 50 years old and still ticking away happily.

    As far as the dingle and one chainring, you'd either need lovely long dropouts, or two chains. If you're going with the dingle, go with the double chainring too, but you'll have to make sure you get the right rings (2 teeth different - most are 42/52, which is, of course, 10 teeth different)

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