Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
Reload this Page >

Lacing Patterns for Tubulars

Notices
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

Lacing Patterns for Tubulars

Old 09-23-09, 12:50 PM
  #1  
It's vintage, bro
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Lacing Patterns for Tubulars

I have a set of Campagnolo Record Crono tubular rims for my LF Suzue Pro Max hubs. Both are 36H.

I understand these rims are very delicate compared to the Strada's so I need the lacing pattern to be strong.

What's the strongest lacing pattern for minimal use on the street? I'd like 4x cross for the rear and radial on the front. Radial being as its bling factor since the wheels won't be for daily use anyways.
Darwin401k is offline  
Old 09-23-09, 01:30 PM
  #2  
Yo!
Senior Member
 
Yo!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,047

Bikes: Panasonic NJS Keirin x2, Level Professional, Bianchi CUSS, GT Pulse

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I'd build 3x on LF. I think 4x is a bit overkill for your application if you're running your gearing on the high side and you have no hub brake, and especially if you're not riding this on street.
Yo! is offline  
Old 09-23-09, 01:44 PM
  #3  
curmudgeon
 
psirue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
3x

I'd avoid the radial w/ LF.
psirue is offline  
Old 09-23-09, 01:55 PM
  #4  
It's vintage, bro
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Sorry I mistakenly said "LF" when I meant "large flange".

My hubs are high flange NJS Suzue Pro Max hubs.
Darwin401k is offline  
Old 09-23-09, 01:58 PM
  #5  
Yo!
Senior Member
 
Yo!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,047

Bikes: Panasonic NJS Keirin x2, Level Professional, Bianchi CUSS, GT Pulse

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Darwin401k
Sorry I mistakenly said "LF" when I meant "large flange".

My hubs are high flange NJS Suzue Pro Max hubs.
I still say 3x.
Yo! is offline  
Old 09-23-09, 02:27 PM
  #6  
Team Beer
 
Cynikal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sacramento CA
Posts: 6,338

Bikes: Too Many

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 113 Post(s)
Liked 157 Times in 103 Posts
Another vote for 3x. With a 36 hole symmetrical build will be plenty strong.
__________________
I'm not one for fawning over bicycles, but I do believe that our bikes communicate with us, and what this bike is saying is, "You're an idiot." BikeSnobNYC
Cynikal is offline  
Old 09-23-09, 06:47 PM
  #7  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 114
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
3 cross vs. 4 cross

3 cross is plenty enough angle to handle the torque

What is claimed reason for four cross? Slightly softer ride due to longer spokes?

One person somewhere once claimed 4-cross made a wheel prone to taco. (Rim distorts to a Pringle's potato chip shape without provocation such as a crash.)
dogsridewith is offline  
Old 09-23-09, 09:27 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
mugatu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
do not lace that front radially
mugatu is offline  
Old 09-23-09, 09:38 PM
  #9  
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,936

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3571 Post(s)
Liked 3,368 Times in 1,916 Posts
Originally Posted by psirue
3x

I'd avoid the radial w/ LF.
+1 this.

If you want the radial front for "bling" buy some crap components to make it. You'll just destroy it anyway.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 09-23-09, 10:36 PM
  #10  
It's vintage, bro
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Why stay away from radial fronts on a high flange hub with the thin tubular rim?
Darwin401k is offline  
Old 09-23-09, 11:04 PM
  #11  
It's vintage, bro
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post




Darwin401k is offline  
Old 09-23-09, 11:16 PM
  #12  
curmudgeon
 
psirue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 646
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
radial is fine (we thought you meant LF as in low-flange -- who says "large flange"?)

but I thought you wanted a strong wheel build?
psirue is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 07:43 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Business810's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 613
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I would do 3x front and rear. It will be strong and will have a classic look - which you may or may not want, but I would assume that would fit with high flange hubs and tubular rims.
Business810 is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 07:50 AM
  #14  
*
 
adriano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 6,876

Bikes: https://velospace.org/node/18951

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
i dislike the look of radial.
__________________

α
adriano is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 08:43 AM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
beeftech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brooklyn finally.
Posts: 832

Bikes: Bianchi San Jose, fixed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Radial only looks good on spoke counts below 28.
beeftech is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 09:00 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Retro Grouch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: St Peters, Missouri
Posts: 30,225

Bikes: Catrike 559 I own some others but they don't get ridden very much.

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1572 Post(s)
Liked 642 Times in 363 Posts
Originally Posted by Darwin401k
What's the strongest lacing pattern for minimal use on the street? I'd like 4x cross for the rear and radial on the front. Radial being as its bling factor since the wheels won't be for daily use anyways.
I wouldn't do radial unless the hub was designed for it. Hubs with the flange broken out don't have much bling.
Retro Grouch is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 09:10 AM
  #17  
Yo!
Senior Member
 
Yo!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,047

Bikes: Panasonic NJS Keirin x2, Level Professional, Bianchi CUSS, GT Pulse

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
But the OP said he's not using these on street; I say radial would be fine, especially for track use. Does Suzue warranty flange failures from radial lacing?

I run radial lacing on my phil/velocity wheelset bc phil warranties radial lacing should anything ever go wrong.

On the contrary, my formula/mavic wheelset is laced 3x front and rear.
Yo! is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 09:14 AM
  #18  
It's vintage, bro
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
All the wheels I've owned are 3x laced. I want to make it a little exotic this time with a radial front.

Wouldn't the radial front be stronger vertically because of the no flexibility on the spokes thus resulting in a stronger front wheel?

I would like to be able to ride this bike every Sunday or super nice day at least once a week or so.
Darwin401k is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 09:45 AM
  #19  
Yo!
Senior Member
 
Yo!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,047

Bikes: Panasonic NJS Keirin x2, Level Professional, Bianchi CUSS, GT Pulse

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Radials are stronger laterally, which will give you added stiffness in sprints etc.

"Since the spokes are directly in line with the main force vectors that shape the wheel, a radially laced wheel is stiffer and has greater lateral strength than any cross pattern."
Yo! is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 10:10 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: nashville/conway
Posts: 623

Bikes: late 2009 leader 721tr, 1992 trek oclv with da, 2010 specialized tarmac expert, QR Lucero Lite, NS Suburban 24''

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have a suzue radially laced on the front to a mavic and it has been true for a year now and all my riding is on the street. Now I know our rims are comparably different but I think it looks pretty sweet and has held up great.

edit: pm me if you want a pic of the wheels
bmcginn is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 10:23 AM
  #21  
Veteran Racer
 
TejanoTrackie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,757

Bikes: 32 frames + 80 wheels

Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1331 Post(s)
Liked 762 Times in 431 Posts
Originally Posted by Yo!
Radials are stronger laterally, which will give you added stiffness in sprints etc.

"Since the spokes are directly in line with the main force vectors that shape the wheel, a radially laced wheel is stiffer and has greater lateral strength than any cross pattern."
Exactly. That is why many modern rear wheels use a radial spoke lacing pattern on the left non-pulling side. The only reason to cross spokes is to permit the transfer of forces from the hub to the rim. Even on road bikes with front rim brakes a radial pattern can be used, however, it's a definite no-no with hub-mounted brakes.
TejanoTrackie is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 12:57 PM
  #22  
AEO
Senior Member
 
AEO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: A Coffin Called Earth. or Toronto, ON
Posts: 12,258

Bikes: Bianchi, Miyata, Dahon, Rossin

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by dogsridewith
3 cross is plenty enough angle to handle the torque

What is claimed reason for four cross? Slightly softer ride due to longer spokes?

One person somewhere once claimed 4-cross made a wheel prone to taco. (Rim distorts to a Pringle's potato chip shape without provocation such as a crash.)
someone must have been talking out of their ass.
the only reason why you'd want to avoid 4x on a 36h is when the spokes cross over the spoke heads causing increased stress, which speeds up metal fatigue in the spokes.

the number of crossings possible is totally dependant on the amount of spokes and distance between flange and rim. for 700c wheels, it's generally 1x 16h, 2x 20/24/28h, 3x 28/32/36h, 4x 36/40/48h


as for exotic patterns 3-trailing/3-leading or crow's foot are also exotic.

you don't want radial if the hub isn't built for it. radial for high flange and/or forged hubs only.
__________________
Food for thought: if you aren't dead by 2050, you and your entire family will be within a few years from starvation. Now that is a cruel gift to leave for your offspring. ;)
https://sanfrancisco.ibtimes.com/arti...ger-photos.htm
AEO is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 03:40 PM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
mugatu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DFW
Posts: 1,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
mugatu is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 04:00 PM
  #24  
Yo!
Senior Member
 
Yo!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 1,047

Bikes: Panasonic NJS Keirin x2, Level Professional, Bianchi CUSS, GT Pulse

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Mugatu you currently in Dallas?

Come to the Fixed City Screening tonight at the cavern. Meeting in mockingbird station for a group ride at 8pm. BE THERE.
Yo! is offline  
Old 09-24-09, 06:30 PM
  #25  
It's vintage, bro
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 169
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by mugatu
****, that doesn't look good at all. Anybody else have Suzue Pro Max hubs with radially laced fronts? I want to know how well they can stand up to the stress.
Darwin401k is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.