LupinIII

1995g for the ellipse? damn son... guess weight doesn't really matter on the track vs stiffness...

well, just looking at a front wheel, open pro is about 440g, DT revolution spokes about 150g, aluminum nipples about 10g, ultegra road hub is about 140. that builds a ~750g front wheel. a rear formula is about 330g, so that makes the rear about 950g. that's a 1600g wheelset for about $300.

really the most important part to cut weight from is the outside of your wheel, so the rim in this case. rotational inertia is a funcion of mass and radial length. the further from the center of the wheel the mass is, the more effect it will have on rotational inertia. in other words, the heavier it will feel when accelerating or climbing.

mihlbach

Just for reference, the weight of the build I suggested will be between 1500-1580 grams, depending on spoke count and the hubs used.

There IS an aero-benefit to 30 mm rims. Is it as aero as a 58mm carbon rim?...no, but its better than a 19mm Open Pro. Deeper rims also allow you to use fewer spokes, which also improves aerodynamics. For aluminum clinchers, 30mm is a good compromise between weight and depth. Anything deeper than 30mm and the rim starts to become too heavy for an all-rounder road wheelset.

yokotas13

so i think i have it figured out
24H f/r
Kinlin wheels
and cxray spokes

now, how do i know what spoke length i need to get? is there some kind of calculator? Ive never built a wheel before, and i dont intend on starting now, BUT i can get all the parts so the shop down the road can lace them up
and where the hell do i find a 24h track hub
i foudn roads, but the only rear i can find is phil, which is heavy and dumb expensive

xxguitarist

You can probably have the shop calculate & order the spokes if you take them the hubs/rims.

yokotas13

and pay twice what i would in the states
its bad enough i pay 80.00 per wheel to haev it laced

mihlbach

To calculate spoke length, you need to know.
1. effective rim diameter (ERD), which for the 30mm Kinlin rims is 577mm.
2. the flange diameter (the diameter of the circle made by the spoke holes) of the hubs you choose.
3. the distance of the hub flanges from the midline of the hub (be careful, sometimes its not the same on the right and left side)
3. the number of spokes and lacing pattern.

plug those into a spoke calculator, such as....https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/spocalc.htm


and that will give you the required spoke length. The hub specs are usually very easy to find on the web. They are usually posted where the hubs are for sale and/or on the manufacturer's webpage. Any decent LBS that builds wheels should be able to figure out spoke length as well, and its always a good idea to double check your own calculations with someone else's.

Good luck!

yokotas13

i really wish there was an easier way, like tell a shop i want this, this, this and this and them mail me a damn wheel.
stupid intranet

mihlbach

Look around enough and I'm sure you can find someone who can do that. I don't know whats available in Japan, but you might try Psimet.com. He's a regular on the roadforum and has an unblemished reputation. I know he works with Kinlin rims and can probably built you exactly what you want. Its just a question of what sort of hubs he can get.

jtgotsjets

if you average 18 mph, get a better engine. weight weenie wheels aren't going to change anything.

the_don

I just put together a wheelset using www.prowheelbuilder.com and this is what I came up with.

I chose moderately priced components that have as low a weight as possible. With a low spoke count. The hubs are a little pricey, but American Classic are renowned for good quality and are very light and have lots of drilling options. I tried to choose rims that have a good reputation for strength, but are also light, so I went with aeroheads. And to finish off I went with CX Ray bladed spokes for aero.

AMERICAN CLASSIC MIRO 58 BLACK Front HUB
Color: Black
Drillings: 18 $130.00
58 grams

AMERICAN CLASSIC TRACK REAR HUB
Color: Black
Drillings: 24 $163.00
180 grams

VELOCITY AEROHEAD MSW ROAD BLACK RIM
Size: 700c
Color: Black
Drillings: 18 $60.00
405 grams

VELOCITY AEROHEAD MSW ROAD BLACK RIM
Size: 700c
Color: Black
Drillings: 24 $60.00
405 grams

CX RAY BLACK BLADED SPOKES

Manufacturer: Sapim
Weight: 4.35 grams
Price: $3.30

78.3g
104.4g

TOTALS:

Cost: $416.30
Weight: 1,232.6 grams

CliftonGK1

+1

I average 17+ for 100k to centuries on my beater Trek 400 conversion, with 32 spoke wheels. SON28 to DT RR1.1 with Champion 2.0 spokes up front, IRO high flange fix/fix to 1991 Wolber T410 Alpine with Champion 2.0 in back.
If you want to climb better, save your $400 and work on hill repeats.

mihlbach

Getting a better engine is not the topic of the thread. Furthermore, improving fitness and upgrading wheels are not mutually exclusive. Maybe the OP is doing both...how do you know? An average of 18mph on a very hilly ride with a FG or SS is damn fast. You have no idea what sort of conditions the OP is riding in.
Posts like this betray genuine ignorance, stupidity, and arrogance.

jtgotsjets

Clearly you have some extrasensory knowledge of these conditions. My apologies, great Jedi warrior.

Everyone! Defer to the vast knowledge of mihlbach, no matter how annoying he may be, for he has the True Vision and a solution to All Problems.

/thread

yokotas13

mountains. freaking mountains is what i was riding in.
and i think that 18mph for someone that hasnt ridden a bike in 8 or so months, and before that only downhill in the mountains isnt that bad. Im not conditioned for this yet, im not used to it. Can i improve? YES, by a ton. but would i like some lighter wheels so i can keep up a little easier, therefore ride a little longer with the road guys i have to ride with since there arent any FG guys around that want to do fitness rides? Yes i would love some better wheels.

this isnt just about wanting the lightest parts. Its about making the bike lighter, so i can ride a little bit longer since its a small degree easier, increasing the amount of time my heartrate is up, and the workout i get.

mihlbach

+1!

the_don

If you built up the American Classic rims with H+Son Rims (24h 615g), for deep aero action.

Wheelset will come in at about 1,678.5g. Still pretty lightweight (much less than prebuilt track wheelsets) and deep enough to get blown by side winds. (And hot chicks who can't resist you because of your deep section rims)

yokotas13

if i ran a disk front (which i am debating) i could. but otherwise i want a braking surface

the_don

H+son SL42 has braking surface.





The formation face is the one with no braking surface

mihlbach

615gms! YIKES!

the_don

Yeah, 200g more than the aero heads, but they are deep. Similar weight to DT Swiss 30mm rims.

indiglow

Y,
Just wanted to chime in here and say that when I started trying to figure out my next wheel set I scoured this place for days. In the end I ended up with DT Swiss 1.2 rims (20H F&R), CX ray spokes (as per Milbach's advice if I recall correctly), and (I kind of regret it now) Phil Hubs. I too, am in Japan, and I basically brought my hubs and rims to Nalashima Friend (a damn good roadie shop in Harajuku/Shibuya: https://www.nalsimafrend.jp/shop/index.html ) and said I need spokes, so order them and build it. I week later I picked up my new wheel set. I have yet to ride these, but they sure do look nice, and don't feel crazy heavy although they are not particularly light I guess.

the_don

How much did they you charge for building them? I am guessing a shop in that location, about ¥8000 a wheel.

Anyone have a picture of H+Son on a scale? I wanted to confirm the weight. they DT Swiss are 585g± 5%. H+Son advertise 615g (no variablity provided).

mihlbach

F that. I'll stick with Niobiom 30mms - 460gms.

bryyando

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/fo...er=asc&start=0


anywho i really do like how deep hplusson is and compared to b43's they are light. b43s according to velocity is 770g.

the_don

Yeah, it's weird how those Weight Weenie forum dudes seem to love the H+Son rims, calling them high quality and laughing at how Tarcksters use deep v's for comparison.

Quote from the thread when they are talking about people in a Fixie forum talking about the rims.

hockinsk wrote:
"Sounds like some of the members there need educating. Expecting lightweight thin-walled very deep section rims to perform like MTB wheels is just stupid logic proven by how they are comparing them to Velocity Deep V which are heavy, medium section thick-walled rims of poor quality, almost the exact opposite type of rim in many ways. Essentially Formation Face is an aero track rim and SL42 is a road/tt rim. Fixies only buy them because of their looks. Fashion never beats funtion in my eyes when it comes to wheels."


Some day I will build a nice wheelset using them Hopefully they will offer 16h rims for the front by then and 20h for the rear.