Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 25 of 25
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Which framesets have the longest trail?

    Pardon my ignorance, but it seems to me that despite fork rake and/or head tube angle, the thing that matters most when analyzing the two is the trail. Shorter fork rake can make up for a larger head tube angle and vice versa. I guess I could go to all the websites and do the math but I am hoping someone else already has!

    Basically, I am in the market for a new track frameset and want something that is "less" responsive to steering but more stable in terms of going in a straight line. The primary reason for this is because I am more interested in comfortable long distance riding than tricking around. I do however like the "skidding" aspect for fixie riding and do that quite often.

    What are people's thoughts on this? Is my thinking correct or am I totally off? What are some good framesets with long trail and good for long distance riding? Perhaps even, good track bikes with relaxed geometry!?

  2. #2
    Breakfast in America pancake4life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    379
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Why not take a old road frame with horizontal drop outs and convert it?

    Also i think Windsor clockwork from Bikes direct is pretty relaxed. http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/.../clockwork.htm

  3. #3
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Between the mountains and the lake.
    My Bikes
    8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
    Posts
    16,745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by freshvalley View Post
    Basically, I am in the market for a new track frameset[snip]

    I am more interested in comfortable long distance riding than tricking around.
    I don't think you're interested in a track frame.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,134
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'm not a fixed gear guy but geom., all things bicycle interest me. I agree with these fellows; you don't want a track bike, they've very sharp handling. Hor. drop out other bikes as well as non-track originally equipt as fixed gears hold your best choices. Frame angles dictate overall stability and to some extent, handling but the for rake overall, including fork curvature will more than any other single feature mske it a "hands off" handling bike.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I don't think you're interested in a track frame.
    Okay maybe not a "track" frame but a single speed frame with horizontal drop outs. I just like the classic track look with the very thin steel tubing. I'm 6'4 and just want to find something that I can go really fast and long distances with. Comfort isnt huge but I am just assuming that a longer trail will equal a bit of a more comfy ride...

  6. #6

  7. #7
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Between the mountains and the lake.
    My Bikes
    8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
    Posts
    16,745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by freshvalley View Post
    Okay maybe not a "track" frame but a single speed frame with horizontal drop outs. I just like the classic track look with the very thin steel tubing. I'm 6'4 and just want to find something that I can go really fast and long distances with. Comfort isnt huge but I am just assuming that a longer trail will equal a bit of a more comfy ride...
    What's your budget? I got a steel Wabi Classic, and it's a super clean, uncluttered bike, (almost no logos at all) that has nice geometry for long distance riding. And you get to spec stem, bars, cranks, and gearing when ordering.

  8. #8
    chickenosaurus j3ffr3y's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Boston, MA
    My Bikes
    2010 Motobecane Team Track, 1997 GT Edge, 2012 Kilo TT Stripper
    Posts
    1,189
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My madison feels quite relaxed (at least with my risers on it) and the logos can easily be stripped off to leave a fully chrome bike if you like that look.
    2010 Motobecane Team Track
    1997 GT Edge
    2012 Kilo TT Stripper

  9. #9
    Senior Member beeftech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Brooklyn finally.
    My Bikes
    Bianchi San Jose, fixed
    Posts
    832
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'd recommend a san jose.
    Mine literally rode it self. It was such a predictable smooth ride.
    Add some bigger tires and it's supper plush.

  10. #10
    Senior Member filtersweep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    2,615
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    May I suggest some reading: Urban Velo

    And Dave Moultan.

    I kept these articles on speed dial when I was buying a new frame--- but I was leaning the other direction.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Between the mountains and the lake.
    My Bikes
    8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
    Posts
    16,745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by filtersweep View Post
    May I suggest some reading: Urban Velo

    And Dave Moultan.

    I kept these articles on speed dial when I was buying a new frame--- but I was leaning the other direction.
    At least spell his name right. Excellent interview with Dave Moulton here.

  12. #12
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    6,364
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Any cyclocross or road-oriented frame with track ends or horizontal dropouts will do. I wouldn't go all out trying to find the slackest frame ever...something with good road-oriented geometry should suit you best.
    Off the top of my head...Surly Steamroller, Cross Check, Motobecane Fantom Cross Unu, Redline 925, many BD offerings except the Kilo TT or Motobecane Pro Track. Look at IRO frames as well. There are many others. Just avoid anything described as having track geometry and you should be fine.

    For what its worth, I've ridden several 100+ mile road rides on stiff, quick handing track frames, and I don't find them to be more or less comfortable than any of my road, cyclocross, or touring bikes. Having the proper bar height, cockpit length, a comfortable saddle, and the right shoe/pedal combo are more important for long-distance comfort. Geometry is secondary IMO, unless you are carrying large loads or riding on rough or technically challenging terrain..then geometry is far more important.

  13. #13
    Senior Member filtersweep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    2,615
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Where? I do not see any reference to frame geometry, trail, rake, etc....

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    At least spell his name right. Excellent interview with Dave Moulton here.

  14. #14
    * adriano's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Baltimore
    My Bikes
    http://velospace.org/node/18951
    Posts
    6,890
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    try a time trial frame.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Between the mountains and the lake.
    My Bikes
    8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
    Posts
    16,745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by filtersweep View Post
    Where? I do not see any reference to frame geometry, trail, rake, etc....
    I didn't say there was anything about frames specs, just that it's an excellent interview from the perspective of someone with quite a bit of experience with frame building. Of particular note is his comments about comfort.

  16. #16
    gainesville fixed gear
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Gainesville, FL
    Posts
    7
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I didn't say there was anything about frames specs, just that it's an excellent interview from the perspective of someone with quite a bit of experience with frame building. Of particular note is his comments about comfort.
    It really is a great article, whether or not it is relevant to the thread. I subscribed to his blog as well. Thanks to both of you for posting

  17. #17
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    What's your budget? I got a steel Wabi Classic, and it's a super clean, uncluttered bike, (almost no logos at all) that has nice geometry for long distance riding. And you get to spec stem, bars, cranks, and gearing when ordering.
    Cool, first time I've heard of Wabi bikes. They look nice and I like the ability to add your own options. That is around my price range although I'd be willing to spend a little more on a lugged steel frame. I am big on NJS frames from Japan and have been having a hard time finding a similar type US built frame without needing to spend $1500 on a cinelli frame or something. And the japanese ones are hard to find in a 61cm frame plus cost a lot to ship. Sounds impossible to find a good 61cm thin lugged steel frame with good geometry and good steel for $600-$800

  18. #18
    Breakfast in America pancake4life's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    379
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    You don't want a njs frame. probably wouldn't be comfortable for any long ride.

    The wabi looks like a good choice

  19. #19
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    At least spell his name right. Excellent interview with Dave Moulton here.
    Just read the urban velo article and ive read the moulton site. The urbanvelo site is really good and gives a new perspective to different types of singlespeed bike geometries. From reading that, I think my style is right in the middle of twitchy and stable. I'd want to be able to lean forward without the bike getting too twitchy or sluggish but I wouldnt want to be uncomfortable when I ride. I think I am even more confused now! It probably sounds like I need to just test ride a bunch of bikes before making my decision. Only problem is a lot of LBS in my area dont have 61cm bikes readily available for purchase.

  20. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by pancake4life View Post
    You don't want a njs frame. probably wouldn't be comfortable for any long ride.

    The wabi looks like a good choice
    I'll definitely consider it in my search. Thanks for the recommendation

  21. #21
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Between the mountains and the lake.
    My Bikes
    8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
    Posts
    16,745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by freshvalley View Post
    Cool, first time I've heard of Wabi bikes. They look nice and I like the ability to add your own options. That is around my price range although I'd be willing to spend a little more on a lugged steel frame. I am big on NJS frames from Japan and have been having a hard time finding a similar type US built frame without needing to spend $1500 on a cinelli frame or something. And the japanese ones are hard to find in a 61cm frame plus cost a lot to ship. Sounds impossible to find a good 61cm thin lugged steel frame with good geometry and good steel for $600-$800
    I should point out that the options I mentioned are sizing options - bar width, stem length, crank length, and chainring/cog sizes. I've made a few changes to mine, but they were mostly unnecessary. It's light, smooth, and comfortable right out of the box. And while there are pretty much no brand names to be found anywhere on the bike, don't be fooled. It's tight. My girlfriend got me a Windsor The Hour from Bikesdirect around the same time. While The Hour is certainly a bargain at less than half the price, a quick ride around the block on both easily justifies spending the extra money.

    I'm fortunate to have both. One is my long distance bike for hanging shiny bits I don't need off of, the other is my bad weather, bad manners, swap parts because it's so inexpensive bike.
    Last edited by Brian; 12-02-09 at 05:21 PM.

  22. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian View Post
    I should point out that the options I mentioned are sizing options - bar width, stem length, crank length, and chainring/cog sizes. I've made a few changes to mine, but they were mostly unnecessary. It's light, smooth, and comfortable right out of the box. And while there are pretty much no brand names to be found anywhere on the bike, don't be fooled. It's tight. My girlfriend got me a Windsor The Hour from Bikesdirect around the same time. While The Hour is certainly a bargain at less than half the price, a quick ride around the block on both easily justifies spending the extra money. I'm fortunate to have both. One is my long distance bike for hanging shiny bits I don't need off of, the other is my bad weather, bad manners, swap parts because it's so inexpensive bike.
    Do you notice any difference in weight factor? The Wabi seems like it'd be lighter with its reynolds steel and the Windsor heavier being 4130. I am just assuming 4130 is heavier because I've picked up my friends KHS which is 4130 and thought is was much heavier compared to some Reynolds steel bikes ive picked up. If I am correct, what differences do you notice when riding each that could be related to weight?

  23. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    California
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Wow thanks for all the input guys. This is a great forum. Everyone has so much experience and ideas. I am probably more confused about what I want now that I've read everyones replies and sent articles but I think I now have abetter idea of what I want. I think I just might start a new thread with all my different requirements and see what suggestions come out of that. Thanks again!

  24. #24
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Between the mountains and the lake.
    My Bikes
    8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
    Posts
    16,745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by freshvalley View Post
    Do you notice any difference in weight factor? The Wabi seems like it'd be lighter with its reynolds steel and the Windsor heavier being 4130. I am just assuming 4130 is heavier because I've picked up my friends KHS which is 4130 and thought is was much heavier compared to some Reynolds steel bikes ive picked up. If I am correct, what differences do you notice when riding each that could be related to weight?
    The Windsor is probably about 3 pounds heavier, but it's not just the frame. The Wabi has a very light wheelset with sealed hubs. Even though I have them geared the same, you can feel a very noticeable difference with the lighter wheels. Less rotating weight means you get up to speed faster, and it handles better too. I can't explain what "lively" means when it comes to how a bike feels, but if you get a chance to ride both frame materials, the differences are readily apparent.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Brian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Between the mountains and the lake.
    My Bikes
    8 bikes - one for each day of the week!
    Posts
    16,745
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by freshvalley View Post
    Wow thanks for all the input guys. This is a great forum. Everyone has so much experience and ideas. I am probably more confused about what I want now that I've read everyones replies and sent articles but I think I now have abetter idea of what I want. I think I just might start a new thread with all my different requirements and see what suggestions come out of that. Thanks again!
    Go ride some bikes. If you still have questions, come back and ask.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •