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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 12-08-09, 08:51 PM   #1
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Hypothetcially speaking...

If you were to get a set of Sun M13s, would you go for 32 or 36 spokes? Do 4 spokes really make that much of a difference?
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Old 12-08-09, 08:57 PM   #2
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They will make it 4 spokes stronger and your choice of hubs will be narrowed slightly. I would get the 32h rims just for the hub selection.
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Old 12-08-09, 09:01 PM   #3
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My reason for asking is that I put a set of M13s/Formulas from VeloMine on my Xmas list (my wife rules) and didn't realize they came built up both ways. I was thinking 32 as well.
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Old 12-08-09, 09:43 PM   #4
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I see. Velo Mine wheels are hand built, correct? If that's true I'm pretty sure 32 will be plenty enough. I have handbuilt Velocity rims (Fusion front, radial laced/DeepV rear, 3x) that take a 220-lb man bombing off of curbs all the time, and have not been touched in any way since they were bought in February. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't Sun rims also known for being sturdy?
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Old 12-08-09, 09:46 PM   #5
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If you can have it either way, with no consequence, I'd do the 36. Yeah, it's only 4 spokes stronger, but sometimes that's just enough.

When you start getting into 40 and up, then hub and rim selection is so limited there is a major disadvantage.
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Old 12-08-09, 09:57 PM   #6
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aren't Sun rims also known for being sturdy?
They are. That's why I wasn't sure which way to go (or if would even really matter all that much). My scale teeters between 190-200 lbs and while the roads aren't necessarily bad in the little beach town I reside in, I definitely like my wheels to be as strong as they can be.

At least the most stressful thing in my life at the moment is deciding whether or not I really need those four spokes...
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Old 12-08-09, 10:01 PM   #7
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Well if it's a matter of the roads I'd just get some 25 or 28c tires with a high TPI casing. Smoove sailing for sure.
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Old 12-08-09, 10:30 PM   #8
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32 is penty strong enough and weight really wont manner so in the end i think it comes down to looks.

3x front, stick to 32

radial front, go 36

real world there wont be any other differeance...
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Old 12-08-09, 10:35 PM   #9
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those 4 spokes won't matter for you. I rode a 28 rear wheel for a long time at 150lbs doing tricks and all that with no issues. The way wheels are built these days, and with spokes being stronger than ever, you can ride less of em just fine.
I have never heard of somebody riding a 16 spoke campy shamal having an issue.
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Old 12-09-09, 05:03 AM   #10
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Pick what hub you want then snag the rim that matches.

If the hub comes in either drilling- go with the 36 holes- if you ever go to sell the bike you can make note of how super-ultra-mega strong the wheels are because of the extra spokes.
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Old 12-09-09, 06:13 AM   #11
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It's not a matter of picking hubs...they come built up with Formulas. I...I mean Santa Claus...is going with 36. I know strength-wise there really won't be much difference. I'm building up a porteur-inspired bike and think the 36s will look pretty classic.
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Old 12-09-09, 07:39 AM   #12
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+1 for the classic look. how will they be laced?
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Old 12-09-09, 08:29 AM   #13
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Nothing fancy. Standard 3X works fine for me.
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Old 12-09-09, 09:07 AM   #14
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Any reason you chose the M13's vs the (seemingly) more popular CR-18's?
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Old 12-09-09, 09:22 AM   #15
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"I definitely like my wheels to be as strong as they can be"

That says 36 right there. I'm just waiting to order my spokes for my Ambrosio Excellights to IRO hubs. I'm only 145-155lbs, but then I carry a laptop everyday and other crap, and on city streets..... unless making a race wheel I'll go with a 36 every time.
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Old 12-09-09, 09:47 AM   #16
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Any reason you chose the M13's vs the (seemingly) more popular CR-18's?
I was torn on that too, but figure I'll go with the M13s because I prefer 23-25mm tires and they're a few mm thinner than CR18s. Is that dumb? Would I be better off with CR18s?
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Old 12-09-09, 09:53 AM   #17
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what spokes are you using? spokes can make or break the wheels. no matter how great hubs or rims you have, bad spokes will give you bad wheels.
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Old 12-09-09, 10:26 AM   #18
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That's ridiculous. Spokes are cold formed wires, nothing more. Sure, a crappy spoke may break at the J-bend under extreme circumstances, but assuming they're tensioned right, a "bad" spoke does not equate to a bad wheel.

I think you're confused with bladed, butted, dbl butted, etc.

OP, if you have the option of a 3x 36h setup, go for it. The nominal weight difference isn't really comparable to the increase in strength you'll get.
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Old 12-09-09, 10:38 AM   #19
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Right on Yo! Thanks. I'm not too concerned with weight here so yeah, 36 is where I'm headed. Now I'm busy rethinking CR18s over M13s!
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Old 12-09-09, 10:41 AM   #20
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I was torn on that too, but figure I'll go with the M13s because I prefer 23-25mm tires and they're a few mm thinner than CR18s. Is that dumb? Would I be better off with CR18s?
I think M13's should be perfectly fine for your build. I'm just partial to the CR-18's because I'm a fatty so I like bigger tires (28mm minimum).
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Old 12-09-09, 10:43 AM   #21
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I'm building up a porteur-inspired bike and think the 36s will look pretty classic.
Definitely 36 if it's going to be a load carrying bike.
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Old 12-09-09, 10:43 AM   #22
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Im running a Sun CR18 rim, DT Champion 2.0 spokes, formula hubs laced 3X with 36h drilling. They are not that heavy and feel super solid. Id say get the 36h.
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Old 12-09-09, 10:58 AM   #23
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What size tires are you running on those Deshi? Will CR18s work with 23s?
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Old 12-09-09, 11:06 AM   #24
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Definitely 36 if it's going to be a load carrying bike.
It won't be so much heavy load-carrying, but have a bit of classic porteur style.
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Old 12-09-09, 12:28 PM   #25
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Will CR18s work with 23s?
I believe you _can_ run 23's but if you are purchasing new tires anyway you might stick with 25's or greater. The CR-18's internal diameter is 17.5mm so they were intended for use with wider tires.
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