Ken Cox

How sad that a recent thread on skidding got closed, but I understand the "why" of closing it.

One of the participants in that thread mentioned the frequency of "skidding" threads and the same participant wondered why people don't use the search function instead of repeating the same thread over and over again.

I have participated on this forum for...I think...more than five years.

I see few familiar names here, now, compared to then.

However, I still see the same subjects come up again and again.

In the beginning, as a newbie to fixed gear bikes, I really profited from these repeated conversations because new insights would come up each time, depending on who contributed and depending on my ability to understand and absorb what I read.

After awhile, I knew enough about these repeating subjects to start adding something meaningful of my own.

Not surprisingly, in the process of organizing my thoughts on the subject for the purposes of writing about it, I would learn something from myself.

Now, every time I participate in a thread, even for the twentieth time, I learn something new, just from the process of organizing my thoughts and putting them into words for another human being.

I would suggest to my fellow forumites that, if they find a subject too mundane or overly-repeated, they simply pass on by and ignore it.

I would also suggest to my fellow forumites that they try shedding a new light on the subject, to everyone's profit including their own.

In my humble opinion, nothing good comes from rubbing someone's nose in the search function.

=====

Regarding skidding, I see skidding as an amusing trick, but a skill that has little practical use on the street.

If a person wants to learn to skid just to learn to skid, I propose the following method:

1. ride at a fast pace;

2. raise your seat above the saddle, staying back of the bike's center, and attempt to slow the bike by pushing down on (resisting) the rising aft pedal and, simultaneously, pulling up on the descending forward pedal;

3. as this becomes comfortable (although ineffective) put more weight on the handlebars by moving your hips forward a little at a time, and with each practice event continue to attempt to push down on the aft rising pedal and pull up on the forward descending pedal;

4. as you become ever more comfortable moving your hips forward, you will sense the increasing weight on the front wheel and the decreasing weight on the rear wheel;

5. as you move further and further forward with your hips, and put more weight on the front wheel and less on the rear wheel, eventually you will feel the rear wheel spin backwards a little during each revolution of the pedals; and,

6. eventually, when you unweight the rear wheel enough, the rear wheel will skid.

=====

Several other stopping options, in many ways superior to skidding, exist.

The most effective braking comes from the combination of resistance pedaling and the use of a very high quality (Dura Ace) caliper brake on the front wheel.

However, a powerful front brake has the very real potential of putting the rider over the handlebars.

The existence of a front brake does not make a bike safe at all speeds, and, in fact, a front brake can lead a rider to disaster.

I recommend a front brake for new riders and most riders; but, I also recommend that a rider attempt to ride without using his or her front brake.

Attempting to ride without using the front brake will change a rider's attitude and style, and, in the long run, will allow a rider to go faster with more safety.

the_don

Close thread and sticky it. This is 5 years of skidding BD knowledge wrapped up in a single post!

Come on Carlton, think of the children!

ichitz

to the intro part, not regarding skidding instructions... awesome! couldn't have said it any better.

+1 on sticky. This is great instruction and explanation!

amptek

Thanks for the tip!

Nuggetross

i'm sure my "lewd language" didn't help the thread lock. i just get frustrated when people ask how to skid. once you unweight the rear wheel, the work is done for you. there really isn't any nuance to it. it's nuts to stem, resist. that's it. if you still can't do it, lean farther forward and push down harder. 'nuff said.

can we move on now?

Bobby Sixkiller

I get being frustrated by being forced to click on a thread and read the posts inside of it, but the hostility is just laughable. If you'd respond the same way in person, you're an a-hole, and if you would respond less harshly, you're an internet tough guy. Lose/lose for you.

Nuggetross

haha, alright man. i don't think i was being hostile. my "lewd" remark was making fun of nuts to stem. feel free to think i'm an a-hole.

i just don't think these skid threads require step-by-step instructions. we can only take people so far along here. one has to spend some time practicing?

Bobby Sixkiller

Haha sorry, I think I came off a bit hostile myself there... my apologies!

I do agree with you that skidding is a lot easier than people make it out to be (it was for me at least.) I think a lot of people ask for how-to's before they actually go out and try it first. I'd bet that if they just used common sense and tried it out in their driveway a couple times, they'd get the hang of it pretty quickly. I learned how to skid on my second day of riding fixed (on a bike with a "suicide hub" and no foot retention) just by going out in a parking lot and trying it a couple times.

No offense to people looking for advice, I think this forum is quite valuable to cycling novices of all types and would not want to discourage people from seeking out guidance. I second the idea that a basic "Fixed Gear How-To" sticky would be quite beneficial.

mihlbach

A good post overall, Ken, but I disagree with your attitude about using a front brake. Yes, it is fine to skid and even better to master the art of managing speed with a FG drivetrain. And it is even fine to ride brakeless if you have the skill for it. However, a front brake IS AND ALWAYS WILL BE the more effective brake. Rather than encouraging people to avoid using the front brake, you should be encouraging them to master it. Masterful use of the front brake is a critical bike handling skill. It will make you a better cyclist in all areas of cycling, not just urban fixie-hipster cycling. The front brake is not a crutch or something to be shunned or avoided. Understanding how to use it will make you a much safer, faster, and more versatile rider than relying on your drivetrain alone.

Nuggetross

the ssfg section on bikeforums is so weird...pro bikesdirect and anti brakeless. my local fixie forum is the complete opposite.

carleton

I closed the thread not because of the subject. I understand that new entrants to ANY sport, hobby, or activity will always have the same questions. I don't want to dis those folks. They are the "new blood" of the sport/activity.

I closed the thread because the language was getting lewd and crude, that's all. This is a family website. We have to remember that there are *several* minors that browse here.

If enough folks want the thread reopened, I'll reopen it.

What say ye?

Bobby Sixkiller

Haha same here. If one's only exposure to the fixed gear scene were BFSSFG, you'd think all fixie riders rode properly-fitted track bikes equipped with brakes, foot retention, and always wore helmets. My local bike scene is much more diverse... people riding everything from rusty conversions to mail-order Republic Bikes to name-brand bikeshop bikes... and most of them ride brakeless without helmets, and only about 50% have foot retention.

mihlbach

The difference is only natural and is largely because this forum is composed of a geographically more disparate mixture of contributors. Many of the long-term contributors have ridden for many years and are not motivated by fashion or local scene norms. For others, the motivation for posting here has more to do directly with bike mechanics and the act of cycling, and less to do with socializing. Furthermore, a large number of people who post here either lack a local scene, or tend not to fit into one.

People who are mainly into cycling for the social aspect are not only more likely to post on a local forum than here, they are also likely to have different types of interests and ideas about bikes and cycling in generel, hence the apparent cultural differences.

Of course there are people here who fit into both categories, and there's nothing wrong with either....I'm just pointing out the differences.

carleton

I just sent a PM to MIN asking him/her to add this thread to the "Fixed Gear/Single Speed - Start Here!" sticky.

carleton

Yeah, there's definitely "Greasers" and "Socs" (sosh-es) here...and everything in-between.

Who wants to be Pony Boy Curtis?

LoRoK

This is completely backwards. At least on the faster part; I feel a truly skilled rider will be just as safe with or without a brake due to a truly skilled rider will ride within his/her limitations (brakeless being one of them). But stopping with a brake takes way less time than stopping with a drivetrain, which means ride fast, stop fast, ride fast again. Whereas brakeless it's ride kind of fast, slowly modulate speed and eventually stop, ride kind of fast again.

mihlbach

Ken clearly puts a lot of thought into what he says, and there is wisdom behind it (usually), but he rides slow with a small gear ratio, and you have to consider that his perspective is based on that.
The same goes for everyone else....I ride much faster with a much taller gear and reach speeds near 40mph regularly on downhills. If I rode brakeless as fast as I do, I'd be dead at the first busy intersection I encounter thats at the bottom of a hill.

There are other things to consider as well. For instance, if a driver plows into you, permanently maiming you, or if you hit a pedestrian, don't ever expect to win any sort of liability suit if you ride brakeless. You may think you are immune to this, but I can tell you from experience, it can happen, and in fact, is likely to happen if you spend enough time in the saddle.

Nuggetross

^i think ken is trying to say that riding brakeless will make you a better rider in the long run. you'll exceed your previous "limitations", as you say.

Nuggetross

and just to be clear, i don't ride brakeless. i'm not confident enough in my abilities to whipskid. however, i have ridden with people who do it effortlessly, including down huge hills. it's possible to do. it's not a death wish if you know what you're doing.

LoRoK

And to be clear myself, I DO ride brakeless. I do, and I recognize the huge speed disadvantage it gives me. (I also don't rely on skidding, whipped or otherwise, to stop)

mihlbach

If you know what you are doing, then you would realize that it is a deathwish, unless you can handle a rear blowout at speed, brakeless, and still manage to stop while going downhill. I'm not rabid anti-brakeless, but there are better ways to descend a hill. Reread Lorok's last post.

Nuggetross

^when's the last time you had a rear blowout?

Noir Lethal

thanks, I saved the step by step list to my notepad

erichsia

I call dibs on Two-Bit Matthews

mihlbach

A long time ago....thats because I ride good tires and don't waste them by whipskidding down big hills.