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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 04-06-10, 12:25 AM   #1
M Faircloth
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Swapping to track ends, gimme info, PLEASE!!

I'm looking to swap my dropouts for track ends. I have a old miyata, I like the frame, the tripple butted cro moly is great for dallas' crappy streets. Anyway, I contacted a local frame builder who quoted me $250 which includes alignment and paint matching, is that a high price? Wouldn't any welder do just as good a job, minus the paint, for a much cheaper price? Or is this really, really, really a job best left to a frame builder? What do I risk going through an average welder?
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Old 04-06-10, 12:28 AM   #2
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Well considering that the frame was brazed together, welding the track ends would be kind of dumb. So no, a welder shouldn't do it, beside they won't have what they need to get the ends properly aligned.


Why don't you just look for an actual track frame if you have to have track ends?
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Old 04-06-10, 12:35 AM   #3
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For $250 you can put together a decent conversion or you can buy a petty decent SS build from BD with a couple of bucks more........ what's wrong with horizontal dropouts?

I wouldn't suggest swapping the ends on a old bike unless it has lots of sentimental value to you.... as time passes older bikes are more prone to wielding/ frame failures during rides (I learned my lesson from my peugeot commuter which I recently had repaired (seat stay came off; was my grandpa's who is gone now) and retired) not to mention hidden rust under paint... you might as well have that frame builder of yours reinforce the wields or brazing if you're going to go through with your plans...
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Old 04-06-10, 01:02 AM   #4
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Yeah, what's wrong with horizontal dropouts?
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Old 04-06-10, 01:16 AM   #5
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This has to be a troll, right? Right?
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Old 04-06-10, 07:13 AM   #6
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..
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Old 04-06-10, 07:13 AM   #7
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This has to be a troll, right? Right?
Nope.
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Old 04-06-10, 08:02 AM   #8
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Are you taking the frame to David at SW Frameworks?

I'd say buy a dedicated track/fixed gear frame and save yourself the trouble.
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Old 04-06-10, 08:04 AM   #9
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... I contacted a local frame builder who quoted me $250 which includes alignment and paint matching, is that a high price? ...
That depends... how much money do you have and is having track ends really that important to you? Also, a welder is a guy who can join metal... it doesn't mean he knows how to modify a bicycle frame so don't expect a service from someone not really qualified to provide it. I mean, you wouldn't go to your proctologist and ask him to fill a cavity, would you?
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Old 04-06-10, 08:07 AM   #10
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Miyatas are really nice frames, especially if you have one with triple butted tubes and horizontal drop outs.
Why would you want to use inferior track ends?
With track ends, the wheel is harder to remove, especially if you have fenders installed and don't offer any special ability to hold the wheel in place over horizontals.
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Old 04-06-10, 08:31 AM   #11
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if it's a really nice frame and you really like it, don't listen to what everyone is saying about spending the $250 on a track frame. $250 isn't going to get you a triple-butted steel anything.

i would recommend calling other frame builders, even if they aren't in your area, and get price quotes from them. that'll give you a better idea.
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Old 04-06-10, 08:37 AM   #12
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if it's a really nice frame and you really like it, don't listen to what everyone is saying about spending the $250 on a track frame. $250 isn't going to get you a triple-butted steel anything.

i would recommend calling other frame builders, even if they aren't in your area, and get price quotes from them. that'll give you a better idea.
but track ends are simply garbage

I really hope the OP is not messing with a 1000 or Team, as those were really nice frames the way they are.
If it's a 6xx, 7xx or 9xx, might as well knock yourself out with the modification, since they cost about $150.
If you look around, you should be able to find track miyatas as well.
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Old 04-06-10, 08:46 AM   #13
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FWIW, the OP originally posted that it's a Miyata 312, and came with 27" wheels. When changing to 700c wheels, the OP asked if the hubs would be wider. So, maybe the best advice might be to not attempt to do anything.

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Old 04-06-10, 08:50 AM   #14
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shows me for not reading through.

312 came with triple butted? I always thought 312 was double butted...
oh well, total waste of money, but knock yourself out with the modifications.
and post pics when it's done.
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Old 04-06-10, 11:22 AM   #15
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What's the point?
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Old 04-06-10, 11:31 AM   #16
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I've flux-cored some track ends on an old junker road bike for fun. It holds up fine, but I wouldn't do it again.
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Old 04-06-10, 12:12 PM   #17
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Why do you want track ends? Horizontal are better in pretty much every way, except for hipster aesthetics.
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Old 04-06-10, 01:06 PM   #18
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Why do you want track ends? Horizontal are better in pretty much every way, except for hipster aesthetics.
Here comes the noob with the really stupid question: why are horizontal dropouts better? Is it because of what AEO said? I do have track ends (err, a track frame so that means track ends, right?) and don't have fenders and with a 15mm box-end I'm able to adjust my chain just fine. Or... am I making some major mistake that's going to throw my wheel way out of true...?
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Old 04-06-10, 01:15 PM   #19
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Here comes the noob with the really stupid question: why are horizontal dropouts better? Is it because of what AEO said? I do have track ends (err, a track frame so that means track ends, right?) and don't have fenders and with a 15mm box-end I'm able to adjust my chain just fine. Or... am I making some major mistake that's going to throw my wheel way out of true...?
Track ends are better for single gear bikes, because they offer a bigger range of adjustability when changing gearing, and they are somewhat safer in the event your wheel moves, since it can't fall out of the frame. They make wheel removal slightly more difficult, because you have to remove the chain from the chainring, but the difference is not worth worrying about. However, if you have a full rear fender, then rear wheel removal is far more trouble, which is why most bikes with fenders use horizontal dropouts instead.
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Old 04-06-10, 01:24 PM   #20
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Forgot to mention rear brake adjustments
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Old 04-06-10, 01:45 PM   #21
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Forgot to mention rear brake adjustments
This is correct if you are constantly changing gearing and using a rear brake. I do change gearing on my FG, but do not use a rear brake. My SS has a rear brake, but I don't change gearing. I think this might become an issue if you had a flip/flop fixed/free with different cog sizes, and had to constantly re-adjust the rear brake. Of course, this is the reason why horizontal dropouts are not truly horizontal, but slanted such that the distance from the rear wheel rim to the brake bridge doesn't change as the wheel is moved in the dropout.
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Old 04-12-10, 06:16 AM   #22
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Hmmmm, I think I'll keep it the way it is. Just for the record it's not a street cred thing, this bike has medium sized horizontals not the long ones which work so well for adjusting. Plus it's a great frame, very comfy! And while I could get a track frame, for the money, it would not be as nice as this frame is. Thanks for all the replies guys.
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