carleton

I'll be glad when SSFG stops worshiping bike messengers.

Those who are into fixed gears who admire bike messengers is like those into automobiles admiring taxi drivers.

Why not dig track racing? And not NJS stuff. That's like vintage auto racing. I'm talking about the modern stuff. Also, Keirin racing is ONE event. There are so many other events that folks don't even know about.

There are dozens of velodromes around the country, each of which hosting races several days a week. Yet, folks go nuts over bike messengers or Keirin riders in Japan. That makes no sense to me.

wroomwroomoops

I was under the strong impression, that whoever knows about keirin, also knows of a bunch of other track disciplines.

TejanoTrackie 

I think Carleton was trying to establish the nexus between NJS and Japanese pro keirin, which requires equipment conformance. Most track racing permits use of modern track equipment, whereas NJS is frozen in the past to make racing fair and solely dependent on the athlete.

carleton

Not really. For years, most of the BF crowd associated track racing with Japanese Keirin and Matched Sprints and were not familiar with the other races.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_cycling#Race_formats

Many are amused to learn that "The Madison" was named after Madison Square Garden which was originally built as a velodrome and hosted 6-day racing. It was so popular that when it would sell out, a spectators backup plan for the evening was to go to watch a Yankees game

AEO

IMO, keirin is stupid. Well okay, I don't really mean that.
Keirin is an okay gambling sport that lines the coffers of Yakuza groups, but the "NJS brand" is stupid.
Parts that are made no better than the stuff coming out of taiwan and china get this magical price bonus, because it's NJS certified.

TejanoTrackie 

That's a bit of an exageration. There are not that many active velodromes in the US, and very few that host several races per week. Furthermore, most velodromes are clustered in a few areas of the country, and most people live more than 100 miles from the nearest velodrome. I now live 60 miles from my velodrome (Superdrome), and that's the closest I've ever been to an active facility.

carleton

I stand corrected.

That's still better than flying to Japan to go watch some racing.

robertv

Most track cyclists are ten times the athlete that most messengers are. But they don't wear cut-off jeans so they aren't cool. Oh well.

It's also hard for people to get into sports that they don't see on tv all the time. I mean, watch some track racing, it looks cool, but most people have no clue whats going on. I like to watch cycling when its on tv and I've only caught just enough track racing to figure out how the sprint works. I have no idea how keirin works.

This constant association with messengers and fixed gears is also annoying. They don't all ride fixies. A lot do, just as many don't. Some ride fixies when it's raining. Some ride geared bikes year round. Some ride singlespeed mountain bikes.

Still it was amusing when I went into a shop that sells a bunch of fixed gear freestyle stuff wearing my work jersey. They definitely treated me a bit better than they otherwise would have.
They looked at me as though they thought I was pretty cool. I was laughing on the inside thinking how quickly they'd change their mind if they knew how much of a noob I am at this.

While I don't think messengers can hold a candle to professional athletes the guys I work with are pretty awesome and are great riders. Where was it that I read about the pecking order of urban cyclists? There's messengers at the top, then girls on fixies, then everyone else on fixies and then the guy with the rearview mirror and the visibility vest and then the guy with brakes on his track drops running his "track bike" as a single speed cause he decided fixed was to scary.

note... that last comment is not meant to be taken seriously at all and there is also nothing wrong with freewheels. The point is, a lot of people do see it that way. It is kind of nice that at least some people think messengers are cool. After dealing with tons of offices that use your services but still treat you like **** its nice to drop something off at a design studio and have the hipsters be real nice to you.

wroomwroomoops

OK, now that we're far removed from the topic: I love watching track races, especially sprints, pursuits (both individual and even more teams) and TTs. OTOH, not a great fan of scratch, points and madison. Anyhow... is there any website where I can watch any of the UCT or smaller events? Is any of that stuff ever available on torrent?

CB HI

Nice job coming into a messenger thread, whining about messengers and turning the thread into a whiny track thread. Did they teach you that in Mod school?

TRaffic Jammer

Most of the messengers I knew when I was in it had more than one kind of bike, and everyone mostly used a variety on the road. I preferred the SS myself, and still do in urban core traffic. The reason so many kids/hipsters have co-opt'd the messenger thing is that's the subculture they see ripping through traffic, as opposed to track racers. Maybe some of them will make to a velodrome and that can only make the sport better. Think of skateboards in the 80's and where that industry has gone to. We may just see a resurgence of North American track racing in the near future and you just might be able to thank the messengers for it. I know we're all looking forward to the new velodrome(s) that's to be build in Hamilton(near Toronto) for the Pan-Americans in 2015.

When I rode with a Pro-Tour rider on a training ride, he couldn't believe what messengers do on a day in and day out basis, nor some of the weather we rode in. Cars scared the willies of him. There's respect enough to go all round.

carleton

I don't understand why you guys think that as soon as we become moderators we become devoid of any opinion and just baby sit and clean up after idiots all day.

Are you a messenger or do you just ride messenger's jocks?

CB HI

Opinion is fine, but Mods are not expected to hijack threads.

LupinIII

this thread sucks

I laugh at the obligatory NJS comment.

I laugh at the thought that fixed gear bikes are so much less maintenance than anything else. if you can't maintain a downtube shifter actuated derailleur, then you should probably call up your parents and tell them you're moving back in. I think separating laundry is harder than setting a high and low limit on the rear derailleur.

close it down

carleton

NBC Universal had some feeds from the recent UCI Track World Championships. I'm not sure if they are viewable outside of the US, though.

https://www.universalsports.com/cycling/video/index.html

wroomwroomoops

Awesome - thanks!

Unfortunately, it requires Silverlight - which is a few degrees above my tolerance for proprietary tech. How do you, as a Mac user, watch the video on that site, carleton?

carleton

OSX 10.6.3 + Firefox + Silverlight

I hated having to use silverlight, too. But, it was a small price to pay to watch. The video quality and production values (graphics, directing, etc) is very high. In short, it's worth it. I found other feeds that were in languages that I didn't understand and the quality was terrible.

carleton

If you search around, you can find a schedule of events and then watch the feed from that particular morning or evening session and catch the events that you dig.

Sixty Fiver

Ever work as a messenger ?

I always liked watching the posengers cruise along on their shiny clown bikes while we tore it up making a living... used to do at least 20 runs in a 6 hour day as well as a set daily run that I did twice a day where I'd drop off and pick up from 15 locations in an hour or less and sometimes have to squeeze in a straight line trip while doing that.

So... about 50 drops a day.

8 drops a day is starvation unless you are getting some pretty juicy trips.

Sixty Fiver

Fail.

Mono-speeds require less upkeep than derailleur equipped bikes... parts last longer and they are much easier to keep clean. Friction is easy to set up, indexed systems take a little more skill.

Talk to your parents about how to sort laundry... it isn't that hard to do.

robertv

Trust me, with the amount of bashing around a work bike gets things do start to get hard to maintain. I'm not much of a mechanic and I am able to keep everything working, but it would be easier with a fixie. I'm also dreading the day something actually happens to the rear derailleur. It happened to a coworker last week and know hes on a heavy ass singlespeed mountain bike instead of his old road bike. His derailleur tore off and got stuck in his spokes or something to that effect.
Think about it, if you're locking up and unlocking a hundred times a day, often very quickly, that derailleur is going to get bashed into things. At the end of the day you're tired and don't want to work on the bike. So you don't, until it's absolutely necessary or too late.
It's really not necessary to act superior to every one on this forum. If we're not allowed to call you a weenie because that's a personal attack you really shouldn't be allowed to declare that anyone who thinks a derailleur involves too much maintenance should move back in with their parents, it's just as childish. You're the one that started by saying that you would want gears because speed is the priority. Speed is hardly the priority and you were wrong from the start.
Yes an old road bike with downtube shifters does make a fine work bike. But not because it's fast, it's because any decent relatively quick bike will do. Hell I know of a messenger who works on a surly 1x1. It's a pretty bullet proof bike and kinda heavy but it works well enough for him. I also know a lot of guys with singlespeeds. They're not trying to be cool by doing that, they just dont want to deal with broken derailleurs.
I also know quite a few people who've broken their derailleurs and just went and used the singleator to run it as a singlespeed. My friend who just destroyed his rear derailleur couldn't do that cause he needs a new wheel cause the derailleur tore out some spokes.


You wanna know how I know you're ideas are silly? Because I ride a fully geared bike, and probably will continue to do so for work and I fully understand why people like fixies and singlespeeds for courier work. Given the wear and tear on the bike it really is easier to just have a singlespeed. I also really miss my fixed gear when its raining.
Most of the guys I work with who ride fixies also own geared bikes, usually older road bikes that they take good care of, and they definitely know how to adjust their derailleurs, they just prefer the fixie for work. Cause speed isn't that important, having something thats not going to break down is. I've never even seen the best messenger I know moving fast. I'm sure he can, I just haven't seen it yet.

Among the guy's who ride geared bikes I've found that rather than downtube shifters being popular a lot enjoy using mtb bars with mtb shifters. There's really not much time you spend in the drops while working so mtb risers are probably more useful, keep you more upright and more visible.

Seriously, if you have a different point of view just say it. Don't insult us while you're at it. Especially when it seems you don't really know what you're talking about.

carleton

No, I haven't. Never wanted to either.

I have nothing against messengers. I'm very familiar with messengers and the ins and outs of it all.

I agree with messenger robertv's thoughts on the matter:

My point is that we are all (obviously) into bikes, yet somehow messengers have become the epitome of the fixed gear rider. A rider who (very stereotypically) doesn't use the best gear available, is utilitarian, physically untrained (relatively speaking), uncoached, and works in an uncontrolled urban environment...just like a taxi driver.

It's interesting that car enthusiasts don't aspire to be taxi drivers like some SSFG member aspired to be messengers. Remember all of the "How do I get into being a messenger?" threads of 2004-2006? Nobody in the car scene ever asks, "How do I become a taxi driver?" They do however enjoy the gear, become familiar with pro racing, and sometimes race at the local level and above.

LoRoK

Carlton, do you prefer the new hipster-fixie-freestyle trend to the old posenger trend? Also, there's a track racing subforum. Take your whining over there.

robertv

You have a point but I take issue with one part of your comparison. Many messengers ride fixed gears, to the point where most people associate them with each other quite quickly. So many people who ride fixies look up to or admire messengers cause they're probably the best fixie riders around. If there was a subset of car culture that really liked crown vic's, chipped paint, and bad wheel alignment then we'd probably see car guys admiring taxi drivers. I've seen the videos of guys like Yac and Squid and am pretty damn impressed by them. Not in the same way Cancellara impresses me, but impressed nonetheless. Also, taxi drivers are mostly known for ****ty arrogant driving that endangers most road users, which isn't that cool. Messengers are known for riding like maniacs and doing stuff that most sane people consider near suicidal. And we're also arrogant! still suicidal maniac is cooler than bad driver any day. Not that most of us do anything too ridiculous most of the time. I know I don't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9o_F...eature=related bike messengers owning the track... heh..

robertv

Oh hey, maybe someone here can help me with this. I remember reading something online about a New York Messenger who's also a pretty big contender on the track. The article also had some photos of him deadlifting some pretty serious weights and the guy was jacked, even for a track sprinter he was pretty jacked. Anyone have any idea who I might be talking about?