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    Classic. ssindosk8rss's Avatar
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    Tire Size: 700 x 25 v 23 v 28.

    I did some searching around but couldn't really find anything on these tires. I'm planning on buying some Panaracer Paselas for my Madison but I remember reading somewhere that white 700x23 Vittoria's were noticeably thinner than the 700x25s or something like that. Does it matter what i put on my bike? What i really want is durability. I rarely but do skid when i ride so i wouldn't want these tires to wear out of me in a week...

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    I would get something like a 28. Beefier tires will prevent more flats. I remember when I rode like 23c and I got hella flats. =_=, I might even go to a 32c next time. Lol.

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    Disgruntled Grad Student seejohnbike's Avatar
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    for tire durability for skidding, it matters way more what brand/model of tire than what size tire you put on your bike. also, when it comes to puncture flats, its the type of tire that makes the difference, not the size.

    beyond that, larger size tires are better for heavier riders, larger loads, and (i think) better at protecting against pinch flats and such. there's also supposed handling characteristics (thinner tires are more nimble) but i've only ridden on 23s, so i can't really comment.

    supposedly thinner/skinnier tires have less rolling resistance, but again, i haven't ridden larger tires so idk.

    also, from a physics standpoint, i'm a bit miffed. what i was always taught was that it's the mass of the object that causes the friction, and contact surface area is negligible. (either greater pressure on a small area, or small pressure over a larger area, the resulting frictional force should still be the same)

    i can say that different tire compounds will have different frictional constants, so reports that different brands of tires have better/worse rolling resistance is certainly rooted in science, based on what kind of rubber they use.

    (also, i like parenthesis.)
    If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research.

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    Classic. ssindosk8rss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seejohnbike View Post
    for tire durability for skidding, it matters way more what brand/model of tire than what size tire you put on your bike. also, when it comes to puncture flats, its the type of tire that makes the difference, not the size.
    Well, my heart is pretty much set on the Panaracer Pasela's because theyre the only tanwalled tires I could find. They come in 700x23, 25, and 28 so I was wondering which one I should get if I'm going for durability

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    +1 on what seejohnbike said.

    Air pressure affects the rolling resistance quite a bit too, if tires are under-inflated, you most likely have a lot of pinch flats and you will feel like you are pedalling through a mud trench.

    It's hard to find a tire with good durability + low rolling resistance + puncture protecting, find a tire that's right for your preference.

    As John said, different brands/models and compounds of tire has more to deal with durability rather than the size.

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    Classic. ssindosk8rss's Avatar
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    So technically, a 700x25 and a 700x28 would have no durability differences if we're talking about the same tires?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathant53 View Post
    I would get something like a 28. Beefier tires will prevent more flats. I remember when I rode like 23c and I got hella flats. =_=, I might even go to a 32c next time. Lol.
    I want an explanation. I run 700x23's on the pista and rarely flat and run 700x22(tubulars) on the road bike and had one flat. What happened with that one would have cut down any sized tire. *knocks on wood.* As far as wider tires, I've suffered flats on a 26x2.8 michelin dh comp 32's.
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    Disgruntled Grad Student seejohnbike's Avatar
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    depends on what you mean by "durable."

    in terms of skidding, then the differences should be negligible.

    in terms of maintenence, you may find 28's a bit more forgiving in the pinch flat department. but if you always keep your tires up to proper pressure, you'll be just fine.

    oh, and keep in mind that tire clearance might also be an issue. make sure your tires will fit your frame. i don't own a madison, but i'm sure scrod will pop up shortly to set you in the right direction.

    if you're really hard-set on a durable tire, i suggest you consider other tires. one of the many other tire threads will give you an idea about what people prefer for ride-quality, durability, and rolling resistance.
    If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research.

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    He probably has a pump with no gauge, so he doesn't know how much PSI he pumped into the tires and pinch flats everywhere he goes or his tube was never seated correctly at all.

    As for sizes and wear, I think it comes down to the model/brand, tread compound and how much you weigh and ride; size shouldn't matter much.
    Quote Originally Posted by seejohnbike View Post
    if you're really hard-set on a durable tire, i suggest you consider other tires. one of the many other tire threads will give you an idea about what people prefer for ride-quality, durability, and rolling resistance.
    John has it down again, find a balance between all of those qualities, also put puncture resistance into consideration as well.

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    Classic. ssindosk8rss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seejohnbike View Post
    depends on what you mean by "durable."
    oh, and keep in mind that tire clearance might also be an issue. make sure your tires will fit your frame. i don't own a madison, but i'm sure scrod will pop up shortly to set you in the right direction.
    Hahaha, Scrod probably is the one to trust when it comes to Madisons

    Quote Originally Posted by seejohnbike View Post
    if you're really hard-set on a durable tire, i suggest you consider other tires. one of the many other tire threads will give you an idea about what people prefer for ride-quality, durability, and rolling resistance.
    What I'm really hard-set on is some gumwalls for the classic look... I heard Nashbar made some decent low-priced tan walled tires but they dont make em anymore :'(

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dannihilator View Post
    I want an explanation. I run 700x23's on the pista and rarely flat and run 700x22(tubulars) on the road bike and had one flat. What happened with that one would have cut down any sized tire. *knocks on wood.* As far as wider tires, I've suffered flats on a 26x2.8 michelin dh comp 32's.
    I ride mostly in the city, and rough rode. Once I had switched to larger tire sizes I rarely get flats. Not to mention I jump off curbs and such.

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    ÖöÖöÖöÖöÖö Dannihilator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathant53 View Post
    I ride mostly in the city, and rough rode. Once I had switched to larger tire sizes I rarely get flats. Not to mention I jump off curbs and such.
    Ok, was just curious.
    Strike like an eagle and sacrifice the dove.
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    Quote Originally Posted by nathant53 View Post
    I ride mostly in the city, and rough rode. Once I had switched to larger tire sizes I rarely get flats. Not to mention I jump off curbs and such.
    What kind of pump are you using? One with gauge or do you guess how much air you've pumped in?

    I ride 23c, through rough roads, pot holes and gravel sometimes, and I've never had a flat.*Knock on wood*

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssindosk8rss View Post
    I did some searching around but couldn't really find anything on these tires. I'm planning on buying some Panaracer Paselas for my Madison but I remember reading somewhere that white 700x23 Vittoria's were noticeably thinner than the 700x25s or something like that. Does it matter what i put on my bike? What i really want is durability. I rarely but do skid when i ride so i wouldn't want these tires to wear out of me in a week...
    ssindosk8rss,

    If durability is your sole criteria for tire width then purchase whatever size you want as there will simply be no increase/decrease due strictly to tire patch contact width. That said, you'll be more comfortable on 25's or 28's. Some folks dig the bone rattling effect of 23c tires. All personal preference. You've made your tire choice and now you know that the width of that tire has no direct correlation to longevity.

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    Classic. ssindosk8rss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldfixguy View Post
    ssindosk8rss,

    If durability is your sole criteria for tire width then purchase whatever size you want as there will simply be no increase/decrease due strictly to tire patch contact width. That said, you'll be more comfortable on 25's or 28's. Some folks dig the bone rattling effect of 23c tires. All personal preference. You've made your tire choice and now you know that the width of that tire has no direct correlation to longevity.
    Thanks! Just the answer I needed

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    Quote Originally Posted by ssindosk8rss View Post
    Hahaha, Scrod probably is the one to trust when it comes to Madisons



    What I'm really hard-set on is some gumwalls for the classic look... I heard Nashbar made some decent low-priced tan walled tires but they dont make em anymore :'(
    For gumwalls, try either the Panaracer Pasela TG or one of Veloflex's offerings. I got a pair of Veloflex Master 20s (700x20...mighty skinny) for $65 shipped, and they're top tier tires.

    The Panaracers are twice as heavy but probably much more durable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vixtor View Post
    What kind of pump are you using? One with gauge or do you guess how much air you've pumped in?

    I ride 23c, through rough roads, pot holes and gravel sometimes, and I've never had a flat.*Knock on wood*
    Lol, I just use thoses pumps from wal mart. I just pump it till it gets pretty hard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathant53 View Post
    Lol, I just use thoses pumps from wal mart. I just pump it till it gets pretty hard.
    You should get one with a gauge, because you could be under-inflating your tires or just buy a gauge. Having proper tire pressure is essential, you will see more flats if tire pressure is not sufficient.

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    Mission Creep wmgreene85's Avatar
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    I run rando 25s. I feel those are the standard; and for good reason! I am very happy with them

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    Antarctica awaits WoundedKnee's Avatar
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    Are your roads bumpy or very smooth? I just ordered a pair of 25c Maxxis Re-Fuse.. I would have ordered 28c if they existed. Roads are pretty bad in some places here.

  21. #21
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    I've got 25c Pasela TGs on my Premium Brew and the only flat I've ever gotten was a pinch flat as a result of not being up to pressure. Awesome tire, IMO.

  22. #22
    Veteran Racer TejanoTrackie's Avatar
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    +10 on the Pasela TG. I've got them on 3 different bikes: 700 x 35c on my Kilo WT, 26 x 1.25 (32mm) on my Bridgestone MB3 rigid MTB and 27 x 1-1/8 (28mm) on my vintage R.E.W. Reynolds chrome touring bike. Zero flats to date on any of them. Basically, I only use narrower tires on my competition or fast training/touring bikes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seejohnbike View Post
    also, from a physics standpoint, i'm a bit miffed. what i was always taught was that it's the mass of the object that causes the friction, and contact surface area is negligible. (either greater pressure on a small area, or small pressure over a larger area, the resulting frictional force should still be the same)

    i can say that different tire compounds will have different frictional constants, so reports that different brands of tires have better/worse rolling resistance is certainly rooted in science, based on what kind of rubber they use.

    (also, i like parenthesis.)
    You're right, but I would think that since the tire and road are not sliding against each other, friction isn't the culprit. I suppose the rolling resistance could come from the actual deformation of the tire - it must cost energy to do that, which must come from somewhere.

    by the way - hello to everyone. I've been lurking for a while but I finally found a topic that I have some expertise in!!

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    Disgruntled Grad Student seejohnbike's Avatar
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    at the same pressure, wouldnt a larger volume of air (larger tire size) actually deform less? theory aside, i'd like to see actual scientific experiment to confirm/deny the belief...

    also, fyi, (although its not related to the supposed difference in resistance between tire sizes) there is still friction going on, but it's static friction, not kinetic friction.

    edit: also, hi. welcome. etc.
    If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be called research.

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    I have 23s on one of my rides, and 38s on another. And , of course, they are VERY different.
    38s:
    pro -better ride quality (comfortable) on the streets I ride on
    con -lots more rolling resistance making them overall slower

    23s:
    (basically the exact opposite)

    My solution or "what I'm doing next time" is find something in the middle... like probably 28s. I think it would be the perfect compromise.
    Quote Originally Posted by powers2b View Post
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