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Old 07-15-10, 08:42 PM   #1
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Tire Size: 700 x 25 v 23 v 28.

I did some searching around but couldn't really find anything on these tires. I'm planning on buying some Panaracer Paselas for my Madison but I remember reading somewhere that white 700x23 Vittoria's were noticeably thinner than the 700x25s or something like that. Does it matter what i put on my bike? What i really want is durability. I rarely but do skid when i ride so i wouldn't want these tires to wear out of me in a week...
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Old 07-15-10, 08:49 PM   #2
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I would get something like a 28. Beefier tires will prevent more flats. I remember when I rode like 23c and I got hella flats. =_=, I might even go to a 32c next time. Lol.
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Old 07-15-10, 08:51 PM   #3
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for tire durability for skidding, it matters way more what brand/model of tire than what size tire you put on your bike. also, when it comes to puncture flats, its the type of tire that makes the difference, not the size.

beyond that, larger size tires are better for heavier riders, larger loads, and (i think) better at protecting against pinch flats and such. there's also supposed handling characteristics (thinner tires are more nimble) but i've only ridden on 23s, so i can't really comment.

supposedly thinner/skinnier tires have less rolling resistance, but again, i haven't ridden larger tires so idk.

also, from a physics standpoint, i'm a bit miffed. what i was always taught was that it's the mass of the object that causes the friction, and contact surface area is negligible. (either greater pressure on a small area, or small pressure over a larger area, the resulting frictional force should still be the same)

i can say that different tire compounds will have different frictional constants, so reports that different brands of tires have better/worse rolling resistance is certainly rooted in science, based on what kind of rubber they use.

(also, i like parenthesis.)
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Old 07-15-10, 08:55 PM   #4
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for tire durability for skidding, it matters way more what brand/model of tire than what size tire you put on your bike. also, when it comes to puncture flats, its the type of tire that makes the difference, not the size.
Well, my heart is pretty much set on the Panaracer Pasela's because theyre the only tanwalled tires I could find. They come in 700x23, 25, and 28 so I was wondering which one I should get if I'm going for durability
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Old 07-15-10, 09:00 PM   #5
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+1 on what seejohnbike said.

Air pressure affects the rolling resistance quite a bit too, if tires are under-inflated, you most likely have a lot of pinch flats and you will feel like you are pedalling through a mud trench.

It's hard to find a tire with good durability + low rolling resistance + puncture protecting, find a tire that's right for your preference.

As John said, different brands/models and compounds of tire has more to deal with durability rather than the size.
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Old 07-15-10, 09:07 PM   #6
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So technically, a 700x25 and a 700x28 would have no durability differences if we're talking about the same tires?
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Old 07-15-10, 09:16 PM   #7
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I would get something like a 28. Beefier tires will prevent more flats. I remember when I rode like 23c and I got hella flats. =_=, I might even go to a 32c next time. Lol.
I want an explanation. I run 700x23's on the pista and rarely flat and run 700x22(tubulars) on the road bike and had one flat. What happened with that one would have cut down any sized tire. *knocks on wood.* As far as wider tires, I've suffered flats on a 26x2.8 michelin dh comp 32's.
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Old 07-15-10, 09:19 PM   #8
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depends on what you mean by "durable."

in terms of skidding, then the differences should be negligible.

in terms of maintenence, you may find 28's a bit more forgiving in the pinch flat department. but if you always keep your tires up to proper pressure, you'll be just fine.

oh, and keep in mind that tire clearance might also be an issue. make sure your tires will fit your frame. i don't own a madison, but i'm sure scrod will pop up shortly to set you in the right direction.

if you're really hard-set on a durable tire, i suggest you consider other tires. one of the many other tire threads will give you an idea about what people prefer for ride-quality, durability, and rolling resistance.
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Old 07-15-10, 09:24 PM   #9
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He probably has a pump with no gauge, so he doesn't know how much PSI he pumped into the tires and pinch flats everywhere he goes or his tube was never seated correctly at all.

As for sizes and wear, I think it comes down to the model/brand, tread compound and how much you weigh and ride; size shouldn't matter much.
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if you're really hard-set on a durable tire, i suggest you consider other tires. one of the many other tire threads will give you an idea about what people prefer for ride-quality, durability, and rolling resistance.
John has it down again, find a balance between all of those qualities, also put puncture resistance into consideration as well.
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Old 07-15-10, 09:24 PM   #10
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depends on what you mean by "durable."
oh, and keep in mind that tire clearance might also be an issue. make sure your tires will fit your frame. i don't own a madison, but i'm sure scrod will pop up shortly to set you in the right direction.
Hahaha, Scrod probably is the one to trust when it comes to Madisons

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if you're really hard-set on a durable tire, i suggest you consider other tires. one of the many other tire threads will give you an idea about what people prefer for ride-quality, durability, and rolling resistance.
What I'm really hard-set on is some gumwalls for the classic look... I heard Nashbar made some decent low-priced tan walled tires but they dont make em anymore :'(
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Old 07-15-10, 09:45 PM   #11
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I want an explanation. I run 700x23's on the pista and rarely flat and run 700x22(tubulars) on the road bike and had one flat. What happened with that one would have cut down any sized tire. *knocks on wood.* As far as wider tires, I've suffered flats on a 26x2.8 michelin dh comp 32's.
I ride mostly in the city, and rough rode. Once I had switched to larger tire sizes I rarely get flats. Not to mention I jump off curbs and such.
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Old 07-15-10, 09:47 PM   #12
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I ride mostly in the city, and rough rode. Once I had switched to larger tire sizes I rarely get flats. Not to mention I jump off curbs and such.
Ok, was just curious.
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Old 07-15-10, 09:47 PM   #13
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I ride mostly in the city, and rough rode. Once I had switched to larger tire sizes I rarely get flats. Not to mention I jump off curbs and such.
What kind of pump are you using? One with gauge or do you guess how much air you've pumped in?

I ride 23c, through rough roads, pot holes and gravel sometimes, and I've never had a flat.*Knock on wood*
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Old 07-15-10, 09:58 PM   #14
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I did some searching around but couldn't really find anything on these tires. I'm planning on buying some Panaracer Paselas for my Madison but I remember reading somewhere that white 700x23 Vittoria's were noticeably thinner than the 700x25s or something like that. Does it matter what i put on my bike? What i really want is durability. I rarely but do skid when i ride so i wouldn't want these tires to wear out of me in a week...
ssindosk8rss,

If durability is your sole criteria for tire width then purchase whatever size you want as there will simply be no increase/decrease due strictly to tire patch contact width. That said, you'll be more comfortable on 25's or 28's. Some folks dig the bone rattling effect of 23c tires. All personal preference. You've made your tire choice and now you know that the width of that tire has no direct correlation to longevity.
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Old 07-15-10, 10:05 PM   #15
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ssindosk8rss,

If durability is your sole criteria for tire width then purchase whatever size you want as there will simply be no increase/decrease due strictly to tire patch contact width. That said, you'll be more comfortable on 25's or 28's. Some folks dig the bone rattling effect of 23c tires. All personal preference. You've made your tire choice and now you know that the width of that tire has no direct correlation to longevity.
Thanks! Just the answer I needed
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Old 07-15-10, 10:16 PM   #16
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Hahaha, Scrod probably is the one to trust when it comes to Madisons



What I'm really hard-set on is some gumwalls for the classic look... I heard Nashbar made some decent low-priced tan walled tires but they dont make em anymore :'(
For gumwalls, try either the Panaracer Pasela TG or one of Veloflex's offerings. I got a pair of Veloflex Master 20s (700x20...mighty skinny) for $65 shipped, and they're top tier tires.

The Panaracers are twice as heavy but probably much more durable.
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Old 07-15-10, 10:25 PM   #17
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What kind of pump are you using? One with gauge or do you guess how much air you've pumped in?

I ride 23c, through rough roads, pot holes and gravel sometimes, and I've never had a flat.*Knock on wood*
Lol, I just use thoses pumps from wal mart. I just pump it till it gets pretty hard.
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Old 07-15-10, 11:10 PM   #18
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Lol, I just use thoses pumps from wal mart. I just pump it till it gets pretty hard.
You should get one with a gauge, because you could be under-inflating your tires or just buy a gauge. Having proper tire pressure is essential, you will see more flats if tire pressure is not sufficient.
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Old 07-15-10, 11:59 PM   #19
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I run rando 25s. I feel those are the standard; and for good reason! I am very happy with them
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Old 07-16-10, 02:42 AM   #20
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Are your roads bumpy or very smooth? I just ordered a pair of 25c Maxxis Re-Fuse.. I would have ordered 28c if they existed. Roads are pretty bad in some places here.
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Old 07-16-10, 07:11 AM   #21
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I've got 25c Pasela TGs on my Premium Brew and the only flat I've ever gotten was a pinch flat as a result of not being up to pressure. Awesome tire, IMO.
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Old 07-16-10, 07:43 AM   #22
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+10 on the Pasela TG. I've got them on 3 different bikes: 700 x 35c on my Kilo WT, 26 x 1.25 (32mm) on my Bridgestone MB3 rigid MTB and 27 x 1-1/8 (28mm) on my vintage R.E.W. Reynolds chrome touring bike. Zero flats to date on any of them. Basically, I only use narrower tires on my competition or fast training/touring bikes.
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Old 07-16-10, 04:18 PM   #23
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also, from a physics standpoint, i'm a bit miffed. what i was always taught was that it's the mass of the object that causes the friction, and contact surface area is negligible. (either greater pressure on a small area, or small pressure over a larger area, the resulting frictional force should still be the same)

i can say that different tire compounds will have different frictional constants, so reports that different brands of tires have better/worse rolling resistance is certainly rooted in science, based on what kind of rubber they use.

(also, i like parenthesis.)
You're right, but I would think that since the tire and road are not sliding against each other, friction isn't the culprit. I suppose the rolling resistance could come from the actual deformation of the tire - it must cost energy to do that, which must come from somewhere.

by the way - hello to everyone. I've been lurking for a while but I finally found a topic that I have some expertise in!!
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Old 07-16-10, 04:37 PM   #24
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at the same pressure, wouldnt a larger volume of air (larger tire size) actually deform less? theory aside, i'd like to see actual scientific experiment to confirm/deny the belief...

also, fyi, (although its not related to the supposed difference in resistance between tire sizes) there is still friction going on, but it's static friction, not kinetic friction.

edit: also, hi. welcome. etc.
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Old 07-16-10, 07:12 PM   #25
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I have 23s on one of my rides, and 38s on another. And , of course, they are VERY different.
38s:
pro -better ride quality (comfortable) on the streets I ride on
con -lots more rolling resistance making them overall slower

23s:
(basically the exact opposite)

My solution or "what I'm doing next time" is find something in the middle... like probably 28s. I think it would be the perfect compromise.
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