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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 07-19-10, 09:55 PM   #1
eboston
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Painting over new paint ??

Hi there I'm new to the forum and chances are this obvious question or the lengthy essay below or the incorrect placement of this thread is going to get me flamed. Bare with me.

Basically I've been wanting to spray paint my bike for a LONG time. For some reason decals really put me on edge. I bought adhesive vinyl and covered the decals and all for about a year and but now I recently bought all the required products and equitment to do a decent color job on my bike, minus paint stripper. Which leads me to the following question. Do I actually have to get my frame to become bare metal to apply primer or do I just rough up my clearcoat for bonding to occur. The stock paint job is pretty mint condition being hidden under vinyl for a year and all.

I'm perfectly fine with sanding for 4 hours or possibly inhaling toxic fumes from a paint striper. I just really need to know this answer. I've been lurking ALL over the internet for the past 3 weeks for answers and honestly I'm losing my mind and going on tilt. I'm the kind of guy that has to know all the details before committing to a project (I think its borderline disorder) and this one last problem is just plain torture.

So please, ever so kindly relieve me of this burden. Also, if you are feeling generous and would like to list a step by step process of painting a frame, please do. Thank you.

ps. The frame is 2008 Pista, not sure if that helps.
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Old 07-19-10, 10:00 PM   #2
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Step one. Streetwrapz.
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Old 07-19-10, 10:35 PM   #3
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I think you will need to remove the chrome plating first.
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Old 07-19-10, 10:37 PM   #4
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I tried to paint over paint that I had recently done and it was a waste of time. You HAVE to get back to the bare metal, wash it, wait a day, primer it, paint, then clear.
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Old 07-19-10, 11:19 PM   #5
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I painted my front rim. It was painted white ( badly ). This is what I did...

1. sanded/stripped the white paint.
2. Clean
3. Add about 3 coats of primer ( wait 30-1hr between each coat )
4. wait a day
5 Add 3-5 coats of paint of your choice ( wait between 45-1hr each coat )
6. give at least 24hr - 48hr to dry.
7. Optional**

3 coats of clear coat ( 20 min between each coat ).

I did clear coat cause it give water protection plus make it look glossy. =]]

If you want pictures of the paintjob I did let me know.


P.S- Did this with spray cans.
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Old 07-19-10, 11:34 PM   #6
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No, you don't have to go back to bare metal and you are more likely to get a better amateur paint job if you don't, in my opinion. The reason is that the hardest thing to do correctly is to get the metal properly prepped and ready to accept a good, well bonded paint surface. On your bike, if the paint is almost entirely intact, someone else has already done that for you. If you clean the bicycle well to remove all dirt, grime, wax, fingerprints, and any other contaminant and then abrade the existing paint with either 0000 steel wool or 400 wet and dry used wet, you will get a surface that new paint will bond to very well and that is also bonded very well to the frame. Any part of the frame that's not cleaned and prepped/sanded properly, the paint won't adhere to well. In most cases, you won't have a problem with the type of paint applied, but if the current paint is air-dried enamel, lacquer thinner (and lacquer) will lift the old paint. Best to use acrylic enamel for an amateur job though it's not as tough as polyurethane and it takes a long time to cure.

Alternatively, check with local powder coaters who will remove the old paint and apply new color and bake it on all for one price. Probably $75 to $150 (plus or minus) depending on what you want done. A powder coated finish may be just what you want. Tough and good looking.
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Old 07-20-10, 08:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathant53 View Post
I painted my front rim. It was painted white ( badly ). This is what I did...

1. sanded/stripped the white paint.
2. Clean
3. Add about 3 coats of primer ( wait 30-1hr between each coat )
4. wait a day
5 Add 3-5 coats of paint of your choice ( wait between 45-1hr each coat )
6. give at least 24hr - 48hr to dry.
7. Optional**

3 coats of clear coat ( 20 min between each coat ).

I did clear coat cause it give water protection plus make it look glossy. =]]

If you want pictures of the paintjob I did let me know.


P.S- Did this with spray cans.
Did essentially the same thing with my rear rim. It turned out just fine, but took quite a bit of time. I'm a little too scared to do my frame because it takes more of a beating then my rims. If I had a nicer frame, I would probably just pay to have it done professionally..

And +1 for the powder coating
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Old 07-20-10, 08:57 AM   #8
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Going down to bare metal with sandpaper will take 20-40 hours if done by hand.

Stripping is nasty and still takes a lot of work.

Rattlecanning can leave a decent job if surface is prepped properly: degreased/dewaxed, sanded properly, degreased/dewaxed, primered, sanded, cleaned, coat, sand, clean coat, sand, clean coat, cure, buff/polish.

A good rattlecan job will take a good chunk of time (think days/weeks not hours). Also, there are two part urethane spray-bombs on the market now, which if sprayed properly (on properly prepped surface), may actually leave a semi-durable finish.

Ruining your original finish (unless the paint is totally shot (like more rust than paint)) will drop the value of your bicycle severely. (Some Tarck exceptions apply).
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Old 07-20-10, 08:59 AM   #9
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thanks everyone for your input ^^

desconhecido, if I wet sand with a fine grit do I just skip primer and go straight to top coat followed by clear coat? If so then that's a bummer! because I was really giddy about trying Plastikote sandable primer.

ianjk, I don't plan on re selling my bike anytime soon I'm sort of a hoarder... but I really appreciate the process you listed but I noticed after the primer being sanded am I to clean with a wet rag or degrease dewax as in previous steps

Last edited by eboston; 07-20-10 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 07-20-10, 02:23 PM   #10
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Also, there are two part urethane spray-bombs on the market now, which if sprayed properly (on properly prepped surface), may actually leave a semi-durable finish.
what brand and name?
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Old 07-20-10, 02:39 PM   #11
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what brand and name?
http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_2_part_2k_aerosol.cfm

You don't need to go to bare metal unless the current paint is chipping or peeling or rusty. I would wet sand the old finish with 600 paper, then prime with a color close to your base coat. So if you are going black, use a black primer. The "industrial" paints are pretty durable but you don't have much choice in colors. You should be fine with 3 coats of base coat, then 3-4 coats of clear coat. The 2 part clear in the link I provided will withstand some chemicals. I just bought some to use on a gas tank. If you get orange peel or runs, you can wet sand it out with 2000 grit. Then finish normally with a clear.

this tank is 35 years old. The original clear coat lifted when the bike was removed from a 15+ year storage. I removed the original clear coat by wet sanding with 600, then masked off the original stripes and repainted the blue and black. Duplicolor orange peels alot so I wet sanded with 2000 until it was smooth. Just waiting for the clear to show up in the mail.

BTW - Duplicolor from an auto parts store is an option and you should be fine with their standard clear coat. This tank will most likely get fuel dripped on it at some point so I went with the 2 part. Use Duplicolor paints in a NON HUMID environment. It should dry in about an hour to the point you can wet sand it. I did this tank, fender and two side panels in one day - 4 coats.

I'll have details on that 2 part clear in a day or two.


Last edited by The Messenger; 07-20-10 at 02:48 PM.
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Old 07-20-10, 03:53 PM   #12
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the messenger, you just gave me the green light to actually start this project I really appreciate your help and I have a good feeling this is going to go smoothly, now all I have to do is break into my old apartments porch and use that as a spray station...i hope its still vacant. I'll post pics of the process if anyone is interested

Oh and would I just graze the clear coat that covers my decals and lay primer over it also?

Last edited by eboston; 07-20-10 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 07-20-10, 11:54 PM   #13
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thanks everyone for your input ^^

desconhecido, if I wet sand with a fine grit do I just skip primer and go straight to top coat followed by clear coat? If so then that's a bummer! because I was really giddy about trying Plastikote sandable primer.

ianjk, I don't plan on re selling my bike anytime soon I'm sort of a hoarder... but I really appreciate the process you listed but I noticed after the primer being sanded am I to clean with a wet rag or degrease dewax as in previous steps
You might no longer need my response to this, but what the heck. If you have a good prepped painted surface to apply paint to and you use a paint that is compatible with the original (and most acylic enamel will be) you can skip priming. You are basically adding more color coats.

But, using a primer surfacer designed for the color coats you will be putting on top and that is compatible with the finish underneath is probably the best way to go. A primer surfacer will adhere well to the underlying paint and will provide the ideal surface for your color coats -- assuming proper product selection.

My experience with this sort of thing is with proper spray equipment and high quality auto paint such as PPG and the surfacers and primers that they sell. I assume that you can get similar products in cans, but it may take more study to identify exactly what type of prodoct is in those cans beyond the label that says "paint" or "primer".

Last edited by desconhecido; 07-20-10 at 11:57 PM.
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Old 07-21-10, 06:36 AM   #14
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Oh and would I just graze the clear coat that covers my decals and lay primer over it also?
Just wet sand the frame with 600. You'll see the old finish turn dull, that's what you want for the new paint to 'bite' into. But 600 is fine enough that you won't see sanding marks under your new paint. You should try to sand off the old decals and stripes. If they are really burried under a thick layer of clear then that's where a prime coat is definately needed to hide those graphics. If 600 is too fine to get to the decals you can come down to 320 grit, remove the decals, then feather and smooth the area with 600. Don't flip if you hit bare metal, just hit the area with 2 coats of primer.

Take pics.

Two more things:
1) You should wear latex gloves because the oils from your hands can mess up your new finish.
B) Wear at least a dust mask or you'll have colorful boogies.
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Old 07-21-10, 08:56 AM   #15
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desconhecido, I did do a bit of research on paints before and I ended up buying: Plastikote Sandable Primer T237 (from what I've read it should work fine with acrylics) also bought Rustoleum American Accent (acrylic) colors and as a clear coat I purchased Rustoleum Painter's Touch Semi-Gloss Clear (not sure if the clear is compatable with the others). If it ends up not working I'll just try again!

the messenger, thanks for the detailed response especially the part about bare metal. I'm going to get started on this project hopefully within the next month and will post an updated thread with pictures of the process.

BTW: Painting it a muted green color so it'll match my "boogies" any how ^^
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Old 07-21-10, 10:31 AM   #16
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Cool. I just got that 2K clear in today, gonna spray the tank tonight.
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Old 07-21-10, 10:41 AM   #17
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Color sanding is the most important thing. My brother is a professional painter. he paints boats and cars. He said to get it to the point where your sand swirls are gone. he painted my bike. He used 3 coats of primer and sanded that done too...
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Old 07-22-10, 09:52 AM   #18
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That CC lays on pretty nice. I did get some orange peel but I wet sanded it down with 2k grit then polished it with Maguires polish. I think for a bicycle frame you can get away with just the CC finish. I left the finish alone on a couple other parts for this motorcycle where you can only see the peel like 2 inches from it.

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Old 07-23-10, 12:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Messenger View Post
http://www.repaintsupply.com/pd_2_part_2k_aerosol.cfm

You don't need to go to bare metal unless the current paint is chipping or peeling or rusty. I would wet sand the old finish with 600 paper, then prime with a color close to your base coat. So if you are going black, use a black primer. The "industrial" paints are pretty durable but you don't have much choice in colors. You should be fine with 3 coats of base coat, then 3-4 coats of clear coat. The 2 part clear in the link I provided will withstand some chemicals. I just bought some to use on a gas tank. If you get orange peel or runs, you can wet sand it out with 2000 grit. Then finish normally with a clear.

this tank is 35 years old. The original clear coat lifted when the bike was removed from a 15+ year storage. I removed the original clear coat by wet sanding with 600, then masked off the original stripes and repainted the blue and black. Duplicolor orange peels alot so I wet sanded with 2000 until it was smooth. Just waiting for the clear to show up in the mail.

BTW - Duplicolor from an auto parts store is an option and you should be fine with their standard clear coat. This tank will most likely get fuel dripped on it at some point so I went with the 2 part. Use Duplicolor paints in a NON HUMID environment. It should dry in about an hour to the point you can wet sand it. I did this tank, fender and two side panels in one day - 4 coats.

I'll have details on that 2 part clear in a day or two.

WOW!!!! The mighty Z1-B was my very first bike when I was a youngster stationed at Pope AFB, NC. I bought it new in Ashville. I wish I still had it. Do you have one completed? You just brought back some fond memories....thanks! (sorry for the off-topic)
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Old 07-23-10, 01:19 AM   #20
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etching primer is your friend, I like using red scotchbrite pads instead of 600grit and pick up some surface prep wipes from the auto store! and do all of this with gloves... I did my rear rim this way with an epoxy industrial paint, its holding up well... also did my front brakes too, havent tried them yet...
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Old 07-23-10, 06:15 AM   #21
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WOW!!!! The mighty Z1-B was my very first bike when I was a youngster stationed at Pope AFB, NC. I bought it new in Ashville. I wish I still had it. Do you have one completed? You just brought back some fond memories....thanks! (sorry for the off-topic)
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Old 07-23-10, 10:36 AM   #22
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Back atchya! I read the link. Nice preservation on a tight budget. Thanks for sharing budget painting tips on the bicycle, too. You've given me some ideas!
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