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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 08-29-10, 11:55 AM   #1
Dr. Banzai
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wheelsets and blasphemy

Your typical Nishiki conversion can handle some purple deep Vs. Kilo TTs can have a nice black on black DP18 set with formula hubs.

Now if you had a really nice Italian track bike that would once in a while go for a street ride but spend %90 of the time on the track what would you do to find a set that was light and affordable? My bontrager select track wheels are under 2000g and I'd like to keep it that way on the new build.

Under 2100 grams for the pair - no cog/ring.
All black or at least silver hubs. No machining
30mm V
radial laced front
off the shelf clinchers
Under $400 shipped for both.

The Miche Pistard from PBK is very affordable but only in tubular right now from them.
Ambrosio Pista Track is very appealing


The blasphemy part? I held a set of the VUELTA Pista XRP Track in my hands recently and some weird part of me really liekd the wheels. Vuelta seems to have their act together these days and the wheelset is light, meets all my requirements but just has no cachet I guess. Yes, there is nobody to appease here other than me but I'd like some sage advice as to something I'm potentially missing. There are many on here far wiser than I and I'd like some schooling on wheelsets that might not be mainstream. Also why the mention of PBK? I'm buying a whack of stuff from them and would like it to all come in one box but hey, I gotta be flexible.

thanks to Vixtor for already hearing me whine about this.
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Old 08-29-10, 12:11 PM   #2
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Tubulars
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Old 08-29-10, 12:30 PM   #3
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Velocity Aerohead? Rims are 405g.
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Old 08-29-10, 01:07 PM   #4
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I love my miche hubs laced to a set of Matrix track tubulars. I have no doubt that you would love the miche wheels. And tubulars are definatly the way to go on a race bike. Switch over either of the wheels you have now, or build some formula to whatever training wheels.
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Old 08-29-10, 01:33 PM   #5
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Tubulars

I hear yeah TT. I just have never had experience with them and I'll admit I will take this bike out for casual rides with my 3mph wife on her beach cruiser once or twice a month.

Do you honestly feel the weight savings and rolling resistance will be worth it for a guy who is about 190 on a super tight wooden track? So you're saying Miche is a good choice?
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Old 08-29-10, 02:03 PM   #6
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I hear yeah TT. I just have never had experience with them and I'll admit I will take this bike out for casual rides with my 3mph wife on her beach cruiser once or twice a month.

Do you honestly feel the weight savings and rolling resistance will be worth it for a guy who is about 190 on a super tight wooden track? So you're saying Miche is a good choice?
Yes and yes. Tubulars are much better than clinchers an a smooth track, because they can be inflated to much higher pressures to reduce rolling resistance and improve responsiveness. The weight savings is just a bonus. Also, if you flat a clincher on a steep track, you are going to crash, but you have a chance to save it if you flat on a properly glued-on tubular. If you are going to ride occasionally on the road, just get some road tubulars like Conti Sprinters. The Miche Pistards are a great value in quality track tubulars and just the right combination of light weight and sturdiness. I like the 24/32 front/rear spoke count, not too much and not too little. Those wheels are an easy match for your 190 lb weight, and can handle much heavier riders. Once you try tubulars on the track, you'll never want to go back to clinchers. I even run tubulars on my road bike and one of my road FG bikes (VISP). The only caveat is to make sure the tires are glued on properly, and have a pro do it if you don't feel confident doing it yourself.
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Old 08-29-10, 02:25 PM   #7
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how often are you getting flats or needing to repair tires on your road bikes with tubulars TT?
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Old 08-29-10, 02:28 PM   #8
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I agree with TT that tubulars are difinatly the way to go, for all the reasons he has suggested, on one slight change. Set up a nice set of durable tubies on your Miche race wheels. Race witht them and do some of your track training on them(especially when getting used to the feel of the new wheels) But either swap out one of your other wheelsets, or build yourself a training wheelset out of lower end/ whatever parts. When training you dont need the fancy high end equiptment, and training on clinhers is much cheaper and easier than wearing through your nice tubies so quickly. But with the really nice boards you have it wont be as big of an issue.
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Old 08-29-10, 02:32 PM   #9
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how often are you getting flats or needing to repair tires on your road bikes with tubulars TT?
My last flat with a tubular tire on the road was 5 years and 14000 miles ago. However, I don't ride tubulars in urban areas where there is really nasty debris; instead I ride urban bikes with heavy fat clinchers at least equivalent to 700x32c.
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Old 08-29-10, 11:55 PM   #10
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So if you had new hoops and tubulars would you go tape or glue?
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Old 08-30-10, 12:01 AM   #11
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i think you know.
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Old 08-30-10, 12:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TejanoTrackie View Post
Yes and yes. Tubulars are much better than clinchers an a smooth track, because they can be inflated to much higher pressures to reduce rolling resistance and improve responsiveness. The weight savings is just a bonus. Also, if you flat a clincher on a steep track, you are going to crash, but you have a chance to save it if you flat on a properly glued-on tubular. If you are going to ride occasionally on the road, just get some road tubulars like Conti Sprinters. The Miche Pistards are a great value in quality track tubulars and just the right combination of light weight and sturdiness. I like the 24/32 front/rear spoke count, not too much and not too little. Those wheels are an easy match for your 190 lb weight, and can handle much heavier riders. Once you try tubulars on the track, you'll never want to go back to clinchers. I even run tubulars on my road bike and one of my road FG bikes (VISP). The only caveat is to make sure the tires are glued on properly, and have a pro do it if you don't feel confident doing it yourself.
I think TT will suggest gluing it.
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Old 08-30-10, 01:27 AM   #13
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Tape won't go on glue residue. That's why I specified new wheels. And since I've never glued a set it might be worth trying out as a tubular rookie.
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Old 08-30-10, 07:07 AM   #14
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Tape won't go on glue residue. That's why I specified new wheels. And since I've never glued a set it might be worth trying out as a tubular rookie.
I've only used glue all my life, because when I began using tubulars almost 40 years ago, tape was unreliable and in fact was forbidden for racing. I realize that the newer Tufo tape is better, but I'm used to glue and know how to use it so that's what I use. I do know that just about everyone who races on the track uses glue rather than tape, and that the Tufo Extreme tape can hold like 3m Fast Tack trim adhesive, such that tire removal on the road for a flat can be almost impossible and you can actually tear the base tape right off the tire in the process. That's exactly what happened to me once when I bought a used wheel that included a tire mounted with Tufo Extreme tape. When I removed it the tire base tape was completely torn off, ruining the tire, and the base tape and Tufo tape remained attached to the wheel. It was almost impossible to remove, and since it was a carbon wheel, I couldn't scrape it off with a screwdriver. Also, Tufo tape is designed to be used with Tufo tires and may not work well with other brands of tires that have different base tape compositions. PM me if you want more details on using glue to mount tubulars.
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Old 08-30-10, 08:20 AM   #15
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This was my first season using tubies, and I tried tape applied by a profession but didnt like it, there was some movement of the tubie. Not pull apart just rolling around a bit. We removed it and put on glue and I loved it.
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Old 08-30-10, 08:28 AM   #16
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This was my first season using tubies, and I tried tape applied by a profession but didnt like it, there was some movement of the tubie. Not pull apart just rolling around a bit. We removed it and put on glue and I loved it.
As I said, Tufo tape is designed to work with Tufo tubulars, which have a seamless construction such that they lie very flat in the rim and apply an even force on the rim when they are inflated. This is important, because the Tufo tape has a glue in it that is activated by pressure, and might not get properly activated at the edges if the tire does not press down sufficiently. Also, the tape creates a gap between the tire and rim that can cause some squirming. Anyway, glue works great provided it is used correctly.
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Old 08-30-10, 09:43 AM   #17
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Awesome. Great advice guys. Thanks.
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Old 08-30-10, 10:40 AM   #18
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the feel of modern clinchers is getting quite close to tubulars. if youre not racing, clincher convenience trumps.
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Old 08-30-10, 10:58 AM   #19
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He said this bike will spend 90% of its time on the track. Plus no clincher tire will ever be able to hold 180lbs, hold onto the rim in case of a flat, and hold tight around steep boards like a tubie will.
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Old 08-30-10, 11:00 AM   #20
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the feel of modern clinchers is getting quite close to tubulars. if youre not racing, clincher convenience trumps.
He's riding / racing it primarily on the track, where even the best clinchers can't compare to tubulars. I agree that on the road, the difference is less pronounced.
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Old 08-30-10, 11:13 AM   #21
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i fail at reading.
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