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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 03-16-11, 10:15 AM   #1
hwdxbassist
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please HELP!! Bottom braket for Schwinn Madison??

Hey guys i couldnt find any bottom bracket information for my 08 Schwinn Madison

I want to buy a crankset that requires a ISO taper BB spindle

will it fit?? Thanks in advance guys
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Old 03-16-11, 10:28 AM   #2
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Any 68mm English-threaded BB will fit your frame. Spindle length will depend on what crankset you plan on using.
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Old 03-16-11, 10:47 AM   #3
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well, I was hoping to buy a Paul Components Royal Flush track crankset, but im looking at their website and it says it only fits an iso
" We designed our cranks around Campagnolo 111mm width spindles, so that's what you should use"
so im guessing its not going to fit?
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Old 03-16-11, 10:50 AM   #4
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if that's what they recommend, then just buy a campy veloce..

http://store.citygrounds.com/store/p...-68x111mm-ISO/
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Old 03-16-11, 11:02 AM   #5
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WHOA!! wait a minute...so what does iso mean? i thought it was a certain size for BB's Thanks for the link btw
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Old 03-16-11, 11:03 AM   #6
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my friend just told me he could give me a Campy Chorus 115.5mm spindle, 78mm shell, english thread would that fit?
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Old 03-16-11, 11:05 AM   #7
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With a BB, there's two things for fit. One is will it physically fit in your frame (English (68) or Italian (70) for most stuff), the other is will it match the crankset (Spindle length, plus ISO vs. JIS). The information from Paul is only talking about the latter part. ISO refers to the fit-to-crank as well.

For example, here's two Veloce BB's. This one would fit, while this one would not. They have the exact same fit-to-crank, but different fit-to-bike.

The other low-cost option is Miche.
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Old 03-16-11, 11:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwdxbassist View Post
my friend just told me he could give me a Campy Chorus 115.5mm spindle, 78mm shell, english thread would that fit?
No.

You have a 68mm shell and if that particular crankset calls for a 111mm ISO spindle, that's what you should use.
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Old 03-16-11, 11:26 AM   #9
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Thanks jesse, scrod and zacked

that last message from zacked really helped clear things up on BB's i now have a better understanding on them, thanks guys i will be buying the paul crankset and probably the miche BB.
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Old 03-16-11, 11:40 AM   #10
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Dura Ace (shimano) = JIS
Campy / Sugino 75 = ISO
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Old 03-16-11, 11:48 AM   #11
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Shimano, Suntour, SR and similar brands are most likely JIS; ISO is more of an European sort of thing, like Campagolo, Miche, TA. However, Japanese Keirin cranks such as Sugino 75, Suntour Superbe Pro, Dura Ace 7600...etc etc, require an ISO bottom bracket.
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Old 03-16-11, 12:01 PM   #12
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Edit: Dura Ace 7600 = specifically, shimano dura-ace 109mm sealed njs bottom bracket

However there is a lot of grey area here. I would personally go with JIS short taper.

Last edited by macnab; 03-16-11 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 03-16-11, 12:12 PM   #13
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Link?

I'm pretty sure the last time I checked that all NJS cranks are ISO.

Velobase says it is JIS while online retailers say it is ISO.
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Old 03-16-11, 12:17 PM   #14
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Actually I have been heads-down in BB-land for the last few days. Gone through a bunch of links, some with better credentials than others. I will pull a few.
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Old 03-16-11, 12:19 PM   #15
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BB-land.

I am sorry if I sound like I'm being a dick but I just want to know things about things and things that I'm wrong about.

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Old 03-16-11, 12:49 PM   #16
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http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

Quote:
ISO vs J.I.S. Standard

Martin Trautmann posted on rec.bicycles.tech: L_right = 18 +0.5/-0 mm
L_left = 16 +0.5/-0 mm
Dimension across flat 1.5 mm from end: 12.6 mm +0.02-0.05
Spindle end to bolt seat: Loose: 3 mm
Tightened: 1.5 mm min.

Yet another source claimed that the squares of Campa, Mavic and
Stronglight (ISO) are smaller than Shimano and Suntour (J.I.S.) with the
result that J.I.S. cranks will move about 4.5 mm further in.

This may conflict with the end of the square and result in a loose fit
or braking stress. for ISO cranks on J.I.S. squares there's less contact
area between crank and spindle, since the crank does not slip perfectly
on the spindle. The result again is a higher risk of braking the crank.

But assuming those 4.5 mm and 2 deg, ISO is about 0.3 mm smaller than
J.I.S. (2 * sin 2 * 4.5 = 0.3)?
ISO cranks (Campagnolo, Stronglight, others) won't go as far onto J.I.S. spindles as they ideally should. J.I.S. cranks (most Japanese models) may bottom out if installed on ISO spindles.
In practice, you can very often get away with mixing these sizes, as long as you select an axle length that gives the desired chainline.
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-373033.html

Quote:
andre nickatina
12-26-07, 01:34 PM

there is, as you probably know, a shimano dura-ace 109mm sealed njs bottom bracket. they are the recommended bottom bracket for the DA 7600 series cranks. not dreadfully easy to find, but the best way to go if you can dig one up.

that's the thing, they're tough to find and usually come w/ the crankset.


http://picasaweb.google.com/deanlung...HEADSET7610BB#

http://www.lfgss.com/post1154436-20806.html
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wools
It's Friday afternoon so I'm reigniting this *****.

DA 7600 cranks are ISO. The 7600 and 7610 bottom brackets are ISO. Cliff from Royce says so. That means it's true.

NJS = ISO (apart from that Octalink discrepancy that Gizmond mentioned which I know nothing about).
I know people are fed up and bored with this topic. But as a final* word from me;

I think I am now of the opinion that the 7600's are between ISO and JIS - apart from this being a fairly common opinion on the web (which is no real grounds for proof), when 7600's are fitted to a campag 111mm BB, you get a perfect chainline.

If 7600's are JIS, and are supposed to be paired with a 109.5 BB, then according to Sheldons theory of mixing tapers; using an ISO 114BB would give the perfect chainline (as using and ISO BB with JIS cranks, makes the cranks sit 4.5mm further down the spindle).

Hopefully that makes sense.


*Hopefully.

Personally: I understand the argument that nearly all NJS is ISO, but Shimano is the one company that managed to get Octalink NJS-certified, and thus could also be NJS-certified with a JIS square taper BB. I can't find a tech doc on Shimano's site, and nearly everything else I read is just someone's opinion.

Edit: Still looking for links on diff between JIS and "short-taper JIS".



The 7610 BB "looks" like Phils JIS short taper / low profile.

-macnab

Last edited by macnab; 03-16-11 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 03-16-11, 12:50 PM   #17
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...and no, you didn't sound like a dick at all. It's clearly a confused area out there
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Old 03-16-11, 07:25 PM   #18
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Hey i went to my local LBS and they had an IRD or IRO? BB that would fit my frame and crankset(english thread 63mm shell 110mm splindel iso)
should i go with the miche instead? any suggestions?
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Old 03-17-11, 12:03 AM   #19
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I just ordered an IRD (75) BB for my new frame. IRD is fine with me. Aluminum cups on both sides versus the un54 that has plastic on one side.
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Old 03-17-11, 12:07 AM   #20
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Cool, the one at my lbs felt very smooth, is $30 a good price?
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Old 03-17-11, 12:53 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macnab View Post
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-373033.html



http://picasaweb.google.com/deanlung...HEADSET7610BB#

http://www.lfgss.com/post1154436-20806.html
Personally: I understand the argument that nearly all NJS is ISO, but Shimano is the one company that managed to get Octalink NJS-certified, and thus could also be NJS-certified with a JIS square taper BB. I can't find a tech doc on Shimano's site, and nearly everything else I read is just someone's opinion.

Edit: Still looking for links on diff between JIS and "short-taper JIS".



The 7610 BB "looks" like Phils JIS short taper / low profile.

-macnab
This is extremely helpful to me. A friend of mine just bought a set of 7600 tonight and she's not sure what taper it is as well. Thanks for the links macnab!

From this picture:


It looks definitely like the JIS low profile taper but like you, I can find the info about their compatibility with a JIS.

Last edited by Squirrelli; 03-17-11 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 03-17-11, 01:45 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hwdxbassist View Post
Cool, the one at my lbs felt very smooth, is $30 a good price?
Yep I am paying 40 at lbs (for the 75).
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Old 03-17-11, 12:57 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macnab View Post
Yep I am paying 40 at lbs (for the 75).
Cool, im looking forward to getting a new BB and crankset, my old BB has been feeling really weird lately, has anyone had any experience using Paul Components cranksets?

also what kind of chain is that? on the picture? ive seen them before but i know nothing about them, are they stronger?
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Old 03-17-11, 02:04 PM   #24
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That's a half link chain, there is not much proof that they are stronger... and paul components are overpriced for what you get IMO.
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Old 03-17-11, 02:14 PM   #25
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i got this picture from Craigslist and I was thinking of buying the set with the chain included and pedals for $125
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