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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 04-12-11, 10:35 PM   #1
Ninjafixie
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Pace Pedaling and Skid Stopping

Hi guys! I just bought a Fuji Classic Track Fixed Gear Bike. Recently I've been pedal pacing after going real fast or down really steep hills and noticed that my rear wheel was loose. I got it tightened up today and was told by the bike repair man that pedal pacing tends to loose up the rear hub and cause the wheel to give a little play and wobble. Aside from his professional opinion, do you think that pace pedaling can cause this and if so why does the wheel become loose?

Also I've practicing skid stopping and loosened my lock ring on my rear wheel and had to get it fixed, is there anyway to prevent this from happening while skid stopping?

Id love to hear your advice and input, thanks for your time!
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Old 04-12-11, 10:39 PM   #2
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properly torque your cog and lockring and no amount of skidding will loosen it.

by pace pedalling you mean resisting so you only go so fast as you want but without breaking traction and just using the rolling resistance of the rubber, right? this can be more strenuous than people give credit for. that's how i stripped my DA hub. similarly though, a properly set axle won't develop any play no matter how much you do this for years until it breaks or the nuts and locknuts wear their surfaces down on a microscopic level.

any strong, repetitious, high-load forces will eventually work your axle loose - but if it's properly preloaded it shouldn't happen for years and years of hard riding... thousands and thousands of miles.

and all metal fatigues, so don't expect everything to last forever. that said, you should get years and years out of a regular hub without any adjustment if it's sealed bearing and it's installed properly.

sounds like you just bought some machine built wheel off the internet, it wasn't assembled well, and you rode on it until it developed some play. be glad it's not stripped and get it done right this time.

Last edited by cc700; 04-12-11 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 04-12-11, 11:17 PM   #3
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properly torque your cog and lockring and no amount of skidding will loosen it.

by pace pedalling you mean resisting so you only go so fast as you want but without breaking traction and just using the rolling resistance of the rubber, right? this can be more strenuous than people give credit for. that's how i stripped my DA hub. similarly though, a properly set axle won't develop any play no matter how much you do this for years until it breaks or the nuts and locknuts wear their surfaces down on a microscopic level.

any strong, repetitious, high-load forces will eventually work your axle loose - but if it's properly preloaded it shouldn't happen for years and years of hard riding... thousands and thousands of miles.

and all metal fatigues, so don't expect everything to last forever. that said, you should get years and years out of a regular hub without any adjustment if it's sealed bearing and it's installed properly.

sounds like you just bought some machine built wheel off the internet, it wasn't assembled well, and you rode on it until it developed some play. be glad it's not stripped and get it done right this time.
Thanks for the advice!
I'm still new to the world of bikes and fixed gears and willing to learn. But I have to ask, how do I properly torque my cog and lock ring? and what your saying is that pace pedaling will eventually strip my DA hub? and where can I learn to torque and preload axles, are their any online DIY website for these type of things?

Thanks again!
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Old 04-12-11, 11:24 PM   #4
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no.

the DA hub i referenced is a dura-ace 7600 low flange hub. a very high quality hub. it stripped while applying backpressure down a hill... going to show that ALL hubs, no matter their quality, CAN fail.

you properly torque a cog and lockring by using the right tools properly and making sure they're very tight on the hub. as hard as you can with most tools... just don't break or weaken your hub by over torquing but with most tools that's not a consideration you'll have to make. just make sure it's on extremely tight before you tighten the lockring. the amount of torque and procedure depends on the hub and interface... a 6 bolt cog has no lockring, for example. most normal lockrings just need to be nice and tight with almost all your possible arm strength with a normal tool, but different tools have different lever strengths and different hubs have different threads which will determine how tight you can put the cog and lockring on without breaking it. obviously if you're a real, true, honest to god gorilla, your arm strength is probably too much to use on a cog with a three foot lever arm chainwhip...

what i'm saying is that pace pedalling will eventually ruin any hub because no hub is perfectly invincible, all parts will break given enough time and use. if properly installed, NO hub(even junky twenty dollar ones with terrible threads made in the worst factories of all time) should develop play just from pace pedalling. just ones that haven't been properly preloaded or have bad axles.

sheldonbrown has a website that covers everything you ever need to know about bikes.

i strongly recommend researching the **** out of any question you have on www.sheldonbrown.com before asking here, because a lot of times questions like this beget responses of "squirrels!" or whatever random **** is going on that day.

I'm hoping my advice helps you not die though, so I hope you find it helpful.

also, welcome! and your lbs guy sounds like a ****. unless he was just spitting that hot fire to get you to install brakes, which you should do no matter what, at least a front for emergencies

<--- huge hypocrite, though to be fair i have been doing this a lot longer than you and know more about bicycle mechanics.

Last edited by cc700; 04-12-11 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 04-12-11, 11:24 PM   #5
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DA = Dura Ace. I'm assuming you don't have a DA hub.

To tighten your cog, you can either use a chain whip or use the Rotafix method. To tighten a lock ring, you need to use a lockring wrench or another suitable lockring specific tool (note: flathead screwdriver and hammer don't count as suitable). Remember that the cog is threaded normally (i.e. righty tighty lefty loosey) and the lockring is reverse threaded (lefty tighty righty loosey).

Sheldon Brown has plenty of information with respect to hub maintenance. It's a great site:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cone-adjustment.html

Edit: cc beat me to it

Edit again re tightening cog: To make sure my cog is tight, I like to bring a lockring wrench along with me while I ride up the steepest hill I can find, and luckily there is a super friggin steep hill at the end of my street. When I get to the top, I tighten the lockring real tight. Other people have other tricks that work pretty well, too... maybe they'll chime in.

Last edited by yummygooey; 04-12-11 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 04-12-11, 11:43 PM   #6
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you can more effectively tighten a cog with a chainwhip than by riding up a steep hill fast. you can more effectively tighten a cog by throwing your weight down onto the forward pedal while also jumping with you and your bike DOWN a steep grade backwards than by riding up a steep hill fast.

generally i don't think newbies should be trusted to actually tighten a cog enough by riding up a steep hill because 1. they don't necessarily understand the physics involved when applied to the mechanics of the lockring and 2. may not know what "steep," "hill," "tighten" or "ride" mean.
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Old 04-13-11, 06:58 AM   #7
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2. may not know what "steep," "hill," "tighten" or "ride" mean.
hahahahahaha
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Old 04-13-11, 08:33 AM   #8
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For some reason, my co-op doesn't have a 1/8" chainwhip, so I typically use a combination of light Rotafix, TT's method of putting the front wheel against a wall and putting pressure on the forward pedal, and riding up a steep hill. It's always worked for me, but I could see a n00b not knowing when to stop.
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Old 04-13-11, 04:43 PM   #9
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This is rotafix btw. not recommended for n00bz You waaaaaaaay overtighten your cog easily this way
http://204.73.203.34/fisso/eng/schpignone.htm

edit: if you do choose to rotafix, please wrap a towel around your chain where it contacts your frame. This will cushion it a little bit and prevent scratching.
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Old 04-13-11, 05:30 PM   #10
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Thanks a lot guys! This is very helpful info.
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Old 04-13-11, 07:32 PM   #11
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Also, I have a Formula Lock ring, I've read in some forums that Formula lock rings are horrible for skid stopping no matter how much torquing is done and some ppl recommend retrogression and Dura-Ace lock rings, any opinions on this people?
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Old 04-13-11, 07:43 PM   #12
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To be honest, I've never had any problems with skidding and my Formula lockring... I wouldn't go as far as to say they're "horrible", but when I compare a Formula lockring to a Dura Ace, I see why people give them crap. Even though my Formula lockring has been fine for me, I do feel much more confident when I'm riding my bike with a Dura Ace lockring. If it bothers you, go ahead and order a solid Dura Ace or Scrodring. They're only like $10-12 and you'll never have to worry about it again.

TL;DR: alloy (Formula) is weaker than steel (Dura Ace)
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Old 04-13-11, 07:48 PM   #13
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@ "Scrodring"
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Old 04-13-11, 08:20 PM   #14
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Sounds like a tool they use during a vasectomy.
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Old 04-13-11, 08:21 PM   #15
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So now that I am riding fixed gear, what are some must have tools that I should have in my possession?
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Old 04-13-11, 08:32 PM   #16
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15mm box wrench
2-3 tire levers
Lockring wrench
Chain whip
Chain tool
Multi-tool with various metrix hex wrenches (I've encountered 3, 4, 5, 6, and 8mm sizes regularly)
Pump
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Old 04-13-11, 08:44 PM   #17
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Also, spare tube and / or patch kit and CO2 inflator or mini pump.
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Old 04-13-11, 08:56 PM   #18
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Make sure you get one of those patch kits that use the rubber cement/glue stuff to bond the patch to the tube like this one:



The quick adhesive ones either don't work or only last a couple of days. If you get a kit similar to the one shown (~$3 at LBS), you can keep patching your tube until patches start overlapping.
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Old 04-13-11, 09:07 PM   #19
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Thanks! also, does track standing happen to damage a fixed geared bike in any way?
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Old 04-13-11, 09:09 PM   #20
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Assuming all your parts are installed correctly, not unless you fall over.
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Old 04-13-11, 09:22 PM   #21
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lol thanks, ive been practicing track standing and came to the assumption that if i ever master that i might as well become a tight rope walker
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Old 04-14-11, 12:22 AM   #22
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So now that I am riding fixed gear, what are some must have tools that I should have in my possession?
this...
http://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...s.php?id=29624
pedros trixie tool... btw I got mine on ebay for like $15 shipped...
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Old 04-14-11, 01:06 AM   #23
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sweeet! lmao @ "Bottle Opener"
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Old 04-14-11, 01:18 AM   #24
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this looks pretty sweet as well:

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011/...h-a-deathwish/
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Old 04-14-11, 01:48 AM   #25
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rather not carry the weight of a chainwhip around with me even if it is only slightly heavier than what i use:
http://www.treefortbikes.com/images/...hainwhip-2.jpg

much rather have a fixed/fixed hub and just have to turn the wheel around. usually dropout can't fit more than a couple tooth difference so the likely hood of needing or being able to use three different cogs without being home inbetween is very slim.
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