Vicelord

Hey everyone, I've never posted in this subforum before, only the road, mountain, and general forums.

I hope it's ok that my first post is starting a thread full of questions.

I'm ready to start building my single speed, to accompany my XC race bike, my carbon road bike, and my BMX. I'm not really looking for anything fancy, since I have my BMC and all, but I definitely want something I will really love and has a cool factor.

Steel is a must, vintage'y is a must, and Italian is preferred. I want to do a road bike, not a flat bar, flip flop hub, hipster special.

I looked on ebay for frames, and they appear to be a tad more expensive than I expected. My LBS has a 57 Torpado Gran Fondo in pretty good shape for $75 right now and I'm tempted, but I'd like to find a 55/56 though on ebay they are like $350 and up for an italian steel frame. The local craigslist has nothing really.

What should I expect to pay for a decent shape steel frame?

As far as wheels, cranks, etc, I don't even know where to begin looking for these things. As I indicated before, I don't want to build some fancy bike here, and I'm going to do it as frugal as I can. That said, buying parts from the LBS will end up being a very expensive build.

Where do I start looking?
What do I need to look for?
How much should I anticipate on all the necessary parts if I already have the frame?

Lastly, the bike will mostly be used as a commuter, neighborhood toy, and ocassionally a longer ride, so it will need to be something that doesn't look steal worthy either. I'm thinking I may even use platform pedals for flexibility and then just put on my SPD pedals when I want to really beat it up.

Thanks for reading, and I'm appreciative of any advice, critique, or thoughts you have for me.

Kayce

You have already found out what the market holds as far as steel frames of your standards. Do similar things for all the other parts you need. This forum has a really good list of well run sites to purchase from. Its a sticky atop the main page of the subforum. After you figure out what is out there, search through the archives to see what the popular opinion on things are.

I am not sure if you know what a flip flop hub is, but you most likely want to get one for your bike. They provide much more versitility and convience for almost no more money.

Since you are going to be doing a conversion of an italian bike, you will probably have a hard time finding a frugle budget friendly bottom bracket. Depending on the age of the frame it will not have a reverse threaded fixed cup. This will make any BB very very hard to find, and a giant pain in the butt. Newer "vintage" italian frames corrected that, but are still a different size than the standards.

homebrewk

Yes, as Kayce said, newer Italian "vintage" looking frames (ie the Bianchi Pista Via Condotti) will have the standard reverse threaded BB. Actually I know of a fellow forum member who just bought a Via Condotti for his lady and maybe he can chip in.

Vicelord

So if I were to need a reverse threaded BB, there isn't anyone who makes them for this purpose?? I'd have to source an old one?

camashtorcal

"...but I definitely want something I will really love and has a cool factor.

Steel is a must, vintage'y is a must, and Italian is preferred. I want to do a road bike, not a flat bar, flip flop hub, hipster special."

Jeez, I had no idea that standard flip flop hubs were hipsterish, thanks for the heads up. But seriously, I never thought I would be this guy but, "Kilo TT." Seriously by the time you put together your Italian framed conversion you will likely end up spending enough to have just bought a Surly Steamroller which is an awful nice stock bike and the 2011 stock setup seems perfect for the type of riding you plan on doing. If you have plans of building the Italian frame up semi-nicely and there are some rather classy conversions out there. But you used the term, "beat up" so why bother when you can just get a Kilo TT, change the tires and be done with it without all the hassle, and have your singlespeed ready to go.

boxerboxer

Normally I'd agree with this but if the guy's got the scratch for a BMC, it will probably take a little more than the kilo to satisfy him. He seems to have a decent idea (aesthetically at least) of what he wants and the Kilo TT isn't really it, nor is the steamroller. Haha, or maybe he totally changes his mind and buys both. Who knows, you might be right.

max5480

don't do a conversion.
you're a biker, you know how different bikes feel, so you should experience true track geometry. plus conversions lack the "cool factor."
vintage steel steezy track bikes look sick, but they can be as expensive as new aluminum (or steel) frames.
browse pedalroom to get an idea of what you want

Vicelord

I don't look at those bikes direct units and think how badly I want to ride them. A bike has to get my attention. I have to love looking at it as much as I love riding it.

Is it really THAT big a deal to convert the bikes? I mean, what kind of cost are we talking?? I hadn't really set a price so as long as it's within reason.

nuhtowel

I ride a conversion and I think the geometry of a track bike would be way more fun. A singlespeed is kind of like a toy, and having snappy handling will make it more fun for you

UCF Eric

The price of doing it the right way or the cheap way?

Lilcphoto

Price aside, it sounds like you want a Wabi Special:



It might not be italian, but it does have lugs, and looks way nice, has a relaxed geo, and nice toobz

Vicelord

The right way, please.

EpicSchwinn

If you want an exciting good looking fixed gear, get a track frame. Speaking as a guy who rides a conversion, they're a fun, cheapish way to get into the fixed gear scene. If you get a vintage italian road frame and convert it people will give you crap for ruining what the bike was built for (gears etc.). Conversions are fine for cool, old, but not necessarily valuable or exotic frames. Hearing what you want, you should be looking for vintage track frames and not limit yourself to italians. Keep an open mind and you'll probably find an awesome frame that excites you that isn't an italian or a road bike.

Kayce

If some one wants to build a conversion why stop them? There are lots of really nice conversions in the world. And riding a fixed gear on a road frame has a lot of advantages over riding a track frame, or a semi-track frame.

I had an atala super record conversion, that was by far my favorite bike I have ever owned. It rode great, looked nice, and was everything I wanted for a bike to ride the streets on.

boxerboxer

I really don't get the anti-conversion crowd either. You know what makes a LOT of sense? Riding a frame that was designed for the terrain you plan to ride and the mode of riding you plan to use on the bike.

Or get to a shop or co-op or somewhere you can ride a bike with track geometry and see if you like it. But all this nonsense about needing track geometry on your SSFG bike that gets ridden on the road always...

camashtorcal

I'm in no way against conversions. But usually it seems that those that want a way into the fixed gear scene eventually toss there conversions and a few months later want a trackish bike, so I was only suggesting Kilo TT or preferably the steamroller to save him some time and dollars. And the steamroller is in no way a track bike and is quite versatile with road geometry. The whole track geometry thing is silly though. Just as silly as the "Zen" thing was 6 plus years ago. Oh, and just because someone owns a BMC or any other perceived nice bike doesn't mean they are loaded and can just buy whatever. It is possible to save and get a really nice bike or bikes in time. That's what makes biking as a hobby awesome is that the bike of most of our dreams is attainable even for us poor folk if you have some patience.

EssEllSee

If you are looking for a vintage track frame, start scouring ebay. But be prepared to throw down some cash.

prooftheory

I missed that. What was the "Zen" thing?

Leukybear 

Well actually OP you shouldn't worry about uncommon/ phased out threads that much anymore... velo orange stocks the most common ones among bikes...

For example; the italian BB..

https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...thread-bb.html

As for the new "vintage" bicycles/ frames; they have since all become standardized. Considering they're all made in taiwan anyhow.

EssEllSee

Not if you want NJS for street cred!

camashtorcal

The moment right before one crashes into the back of pickup truck while bombing down a hill brakeless, one feels complete serenity and everything in front of him is clear.... don't worry about the part that happens after that, that would likely mess with your zen.

rustybrown

Sounds like you already know bieks.

So lace in a track hub on a complete that fits you and you think looks rad. Boom.

bbattle

https://sheldonbrown.com/fixed-conversion.html

https://sheldonbrown.com/deakins/how-...onversion.html

Your best bet is to patrol the local Goodwill stores daily, looking for a decent bike to start with. Or get up early Saturday mornings and go yard sailing. If you happen to live in a university town, you can find good deals on bikes at the end of the semester and/or the end of the school year. You can then use the Sheldon Brown articles to convert your bike to a fixed gear. 70's boom bikes like the Schwinn Varsity, Continental, the Raleigh Sprite, Record, Grand Prix, Peugeot UO-8, Gitane, Motobecane can still be found cheaply if you don't mind spending the time to find one. Good deals still to be found on 80's Japanese bikes like Fuji, Centurion, Bridgestone, Nishiki, Univega, Miyata. Prices will vary from region to region but with cooler weather the prices will go down.

You want horizontal dropouts so you can adjust your chain length.

Forged dropouts are the best but stamped ones are okay. I'd stay away from bikes that have crimped stays holding the dropouts(Free Spirits, X-mart bikes). Older French bikes will have French bottom brackets and sometimes hard to find dimensions on seatposts but if you get a full bike that's fine. Older bikes will have 27" wheels but you can still get good tires for them online. Steel rims don't brake as well, particularly in the rain. Might not be a problem if you decide to go brakeless, which I don't recommend. Bikes that use freewheels instead of freehubs are the easiest to convert; simply redish the wheel, remove the freewheel(the cluster of gears) and spin on a new cog and lockring. May need to use a spacer on the inside of the cog to get a good chainline but old bottom bracket rings work perfect for this. Bike shop can redish the wheel for you and it won't cost much. Bring the whole bike in with you and they'll then be able to get your chainline set.

Older cranks will often be 52-42 so you can simply remove the outer ring and use the 42 or drop the inside ring and replace the 52 with a 48. Will need shorter crank bolts.

I like to replace my brake cables and housings and also the brake pads. On most used bikes, the cables are stretched and crusty, the housings are cracked and the brake pads are like bricks. Bartape usually needs replacing, too. And the hoods on the brake levers. Saddle may or may not be usable.

If the paint job is trashed, I recommend powdercoating. It's often as cheap or cheaper than a rattle can job and is very durable. If you want to paint it yourself, strip the paint completely, remove ALL rust, prime with a rust reducing primer using several coats, and then Duplicolor Hi-Heat engine block paint. At least two cans of primer, and two cans of paint. Several thin coats and let it dry thoroughly for at least a week up in the attic or in the trunk of your car in the full sun.

Best if you will reuse old wheels and brakes, saddles, handlebars, etc. I've tried this route but it still costs me a lot of money because I won't reuse steel rims(heavy and poor braking) and cottered cranks(just personal preference). $25 frame/$600 bike From cheap Raleigh to Another money pit

JesusBananas

So actually, if you were looking for an expected price range for vintage steel frames, I would definitely ask C&V instead, since that is more their area of expertise.

Alternatively, if you just lurk/search C&V for a few days, it's easy to get an idea of the preferred frames and their general price ranges. There is also the appraisal specific subforum, if you have questions about specific models.

andrizzle

this is all i thought of while reading your post. i mean, are you this green?

no. i don't have anything more to add.