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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 11-25-11, 06:18 PM   #1
8bits
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Toe overlap knowledge

So I've only ridden my 53cm Leader 722TS wich I find a little too big for me. I've never understood why people were so concerned about toe overlap while reading bffgss since the 722 geometry tends to have a bigger than normal tt.

I've bought a small Affinity LoPro and while I knew that getting a "pursuit" frame would increase toe overlap it never crossed my mind that it would be this insane to ride a bike like this!
It was my first day trying to ride it, so I don't know if it is me that I'm not used to the geometry or it's really this bad for everybody.

Chime in guys! Is it that bad? How do someone ride like this?!


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Old 11-25-11, 06:21 PM   #2
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Ride faster!
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Old 11-25-11, 06:39 PM   #3
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I'm so confused.
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Old 11-25-11, 06:44 PM   #4
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sorry if I didn't made myself clear, english isn't my strong (it shows ).

What I meant is that I found really dangerous and hard not striking my pedal onto the front wheel while riding slowly. Made me think that it would be dangerous riding this bike in a traffic jam...
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Old 11-25-11, 06:46 PM   #5
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yup. ride fastaarrr
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Old 11-25-11, 07:00 PM   #6
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It also helps to pedal harder.
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Old 11-25-11, 07:01 PM   #7
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What I meant is that I found really dangerous and hard not striking my pedal onto the front wheel while riding slowly. Made me think that it would be dangerous riding this bike in a traffic jam...
Yes. That is not a good bike for that kind of riding. That's why bikes like the Leaders are designed the way they are and are much better at being road bikes. I have a small 49cm Leader 721tr with a steep head angle and a fork with only 28mm rake, yet I have very little toe / tire overlap. OTOH, I have an old steel track bike (Schwinn Paramount P14) that has even more overlap than your bike and is very tricky to ride in tight places at slow speeds. I would never dream of riding that bike in traffic like you describe.
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Old 11-25-11, 07:39 PM   #8
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Yes. That is not a good bike for that kind of riding. That's why bikes like the Leaders are designed the way they are and are much better at being road bikes. I have a small 49cm Leader 721tr with a steep head angle and a fork with only 28mm rake, yet I have very little toe / tire overlap. OTOH, I have an old steel track bike (Schwinn Paramount P14) that has even more overlap than your bike and is very tricky to ride in tight places at slow speeds. I would never dream of riding that bike in traffic like you describe.
thanks for the input tejano

the thing is, I ride in a town with one of the worst traffic in the world (12 million people living in a town does that) so it's almost impossible to not be in a dangerous situation with this kind of bike. If I knew what I know now :-/

one more thing, so a bike like a cannondale track or a pelizzoli leggenda that have a "classic" track geometry would have the same problem?
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Old 11-25-11, 07:52 PM   #9
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one more thing, so a bike like a cannondale track or a pelizzoli leggenda that have a "classic" track geometry would have the same problem?
It's hard to generalize, but in general bikes with classic track geometries will have significant toe overlap. My old Paramount is a sprint bike with a very short straight top tube, but the same 74 degree head and seat tube angle, so the distance from the bottom bracket to the front wheel is very short. It is also a very small frame with a 49cm c-t seat tube. Finally, the fork legs and head tube are also very short, reducing the clearance even further. In recent years, manufacturers like Bianchi have redesigned their track bikes like the steel Pistas, to make them more street oriented with slacker head angles and more fork rake. You need to look for something like that.
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Old 11-25-11, 08:00 PM   #10
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Quite a few bikes with a tight geometry have toe overlap. My Cannondale road bike has about as much as yours despite not being very small (60cm). But it's not as big an issue since I can always coast through a tight, low-speed turn. For riding in tight traffic situations I'd consider changing your bike to a single-speed instead of a fixed gear.
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Old 11-25-11, 08:23 PM   #11
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yeah, pretty much decided to keep this bike as a fun weekend bike and continue to use the 722 as my daily commuter

thanks guys.
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Old 11-25-11, 11:59 PM   #12
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your clips are huge.
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Old 11-26-11, 12:22 AM   #13
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I've seen worse! I don't think it's that bad. The correct advice was given, ride faster. The thing about toe-overlap is that the only people scared of it are the people that aren't used to it. In your photo you show the cage going straight out in the worst possible way. While riding, you can lean back in the saddle and point your toes upward (when riding at under 5 miles per hour) and the problem will often go away.

Besides technique changes:
* Smaller cages.
* Go clipless.
* Go single speed so you can coast around people.
* HTFU
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Old 11-26-11, 02:22 AM   #14
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If you're worried about toe overlap because you're riding in traffic, there are also three options you can consider.

1. Get a stronger core. You can balance the bike going without turning the front wheel at very slow speeds if your core muscles are good.
2. Get a smaller cage or don't ride with straps if you're good enough (run brakes, though)
3. Calculate every revolution and where you predict you will need to stop / turn the wheel so your wheel doesn't hit your toes.
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Old 11-26-11, 02:30 AM   #15
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I ride a Lo Pro almost every day, and while mine is a large there's still a good amount of toe overlap. These frames just have a really tight wheelbase and pretty short effective TT length. I'm used to it enough at this point that when my foot rubs the front tire at low speeds it doesn't bother me.
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