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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 12-16-04, 06:54 PM   #1
Ya Tu Sabes
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Italian no-lockring technique?

How do we feel about this? I have my doubts.
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Old 12-16-04, 06:58 PM   #2
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i call shenanigans

that's either a faceplant or stripped hub waiting to happen
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Old 12-16-04, 07:02 PM   #3
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what works on the track might not work on the street.
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Old 12-16-04, 07:08 PM   #4
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There's a guy over at fixedgeargallery that says he rides this setup on the street. sans brakes.
http://www.fixedgeargallery.com/foru...opic.php?t=383


I still think Darwin will eventually prevail
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Old 12-16-04, 07:29 PM   #5
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i really do want to be one of those fixie purist types (i need a fixie first)

but come on -- a lock ring? does it really matter that much?

and doesn't "(avoid applying excessive force as this may damage the threads of the hub)" basically translate to "don't do this"?
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Old 12-16-04, 07:51 PM   #6
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I'm keepin' my lockring.

But I like the idea of not have to use a chain whip!
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Old 12-16-04, 09:42 PM   #7
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I did that before(when I was dumb and stupid) it was alright til somebody jumped out in front of me and there went the cog. i still am dumb and stupid>>LOL

S/F,
CEYA!
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Old 12-16-04, 10:39 PM   #8
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same thing happened to me...going down hill...into an intersection....that was the first (of many) time that i literally bailed out and jumped off the bike so as not to die
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Old 12-16-04, 10:51 PM   #9
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i've been using a suicide wheel, (normal freewheel hub, track cog and an english BB lockring) on my street ride for a while now, lots of loctite, and i cranked down the cog before the lockring was installed, haven't had any problems and i ride pretty aggressively, lots of skids and skipping. its been solid, but i know i'm asking for trouble, and it'll fail one of these days, hopefully not before i build up a new track wheel for it.
i have tried the italian trick, and it works fine, on the track where you shouldn't have to stop fast on the street however, if
you actually have to panic stop with it, it'll thread itself right off.
if you must use it, you can, but be careful with the backpedaling.
preferably install a front brake for most of the stopping.
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Old 12-17-04, 07:40 AM   #10
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I want to see a pic of what that guy's BB shell looks like after having that chain digging into it when he tightens the cog...
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Old 12-17-04, 08:34 AM   #11
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I'm all for lockrings; maybe conventional of me, but track hubs are nice anyway and I feel like the thought of sudden death never enters my mind.
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Old 12-17-04, 09:34 AM   #12
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lockring discussion aside...why not just use a chain whip? hah..
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Old 12-17-04, 10:31 AM   #13
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What a bunch of rubbish!
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Old 12-17-04, 10:47 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stumprofig
I'm all for lockrings; maybe conventional of me, but track hubs are nice anyway and I feel like the thought of sudden death never enters my mind.
Agreed. The guy on FGG who advocates this weird method seems to think that less is more in all circumstances, suggesting that he would forego a lockring even if he had a cog with reverse threads. I am not so foolhardy, but if someone could convince me that this super-torque method really works, I might use it on a regular hub to create a low-cost fixed wheel. However, in light of several bits of first-hand negative testimony above, I'll stick with the track hubs. (Did you notice, by the way, that the guy's bike, in addition to not having a lockring, has no brakes and no toe-clips? Seems like his goal is to eliminate every possible method of stopping his bike, short of this one.)
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Old 12-17-04, 10:52 AM   #15
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Theres no room on my converted hub for a lockring, then again I have a front brake and don't even know how to skid stop so, I think I'll be alright.
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Old 12-17-04, 12:10 PM   #16
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In the context of street riding, that article is ridiculous. I admit, the method described is a nice trick for track riders who don't have a chain whip, as long as you wrap a rag around the bb shell. Think about it though: While it may be "possible to apply a tightening torque much greater than that available using a chain whip" you are never going to be able to apply more torque than you do with your legs while riding on the street, especially brakeless. That's why lockrings sometimes need to be tightened after use of a new wheel, the act of riding puts torque on the cog that you will not be able to exert with you hands. Only backpedal, skip, or skid without a lockring if you want to get hurt or die.

Last edited by Ira in Chi; 12-17-04 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 12-17-04, 12:44 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira in Chi
In the context of street riding, that article is ridiculous. I admit, the method described is a nice trick for track riders who don't have a chain whip, as long as you wrap a rag around the bb shell. Think about it though: While it may be "possible to apply a tightening torque much greater than that available using a chain whip" you are never going to be able to apply more torque than you do with your legs while riding on the street, especially brakeless. That's why lockrings sometimes need to be tightened after use of a new wheel, the act of riding puts torque on the cog that you will not be able to exert with you hands. Only backpedal, skip, or skid without a lockring if you want to get hurt or die.
And even then its not gaurenteed, its possible to get away with it, but that one time you don't...WHAM!!!
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Old 12-17-04, 01:38 PM   #18
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The handle of your chain whip clamped horizontally in the jaws of a vice wont stretch your chain or chip the paint of your BB shell or gall your dropout.
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Old 12-17-04, 01:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WorldWind
The handle of your chain whip clamped horizontally in the jaws of a vice wont stretch your chain or chip the paint of your BB shell or gall your dropout.
I would be surprised if this stretched the chain... chain "stretch" is the wearing of grooves in the pins, not an elastic property of the chain. But I don't doubt the other two
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Old 12-17-04, 01:56 PM   #20
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guys I'm pretty sure this method is more for trackracing.
On the track if you spin off your cog its not a big deal.
Me: I'd slap a lockring for the trip to the velodrome.

jeff
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Old 12-17-04, 03:18 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotambushed
i've been using a suicide wheel, (normal freewheel hub, track cog and an english BB lockring) on my street ride for a while now, lots of loctite, and i cranked down the cog before the lockring was installed, haven't had any problems and i ride pretty aggressively, lots of skids and skipping. its been solid, but i know i'm asking for trouble, and it'll fail one of these days, hopefully not before i build up a new track wheel for it.
Same setup here- and those NICE freewheel hubs are almost being given away these days... who says it will really fail someday??
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Old 12-17-04, 06:00 PM   #22
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Its possible it won't, and it may outlive me,
but, its very possible the hub will strip it the threads get to weak,
i'm not a metalurgist, so i can't say when or if it'll fail,
i'm just hoping i'm not on it if it does
agreed on the old hubs, i have several sets of high flange road copies of campy hubs, basically given to me, i think i paid 5 or 6 bucks a peice.
they work great and ride nice
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Old 12-17-04, 06:06 PM   #23
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brakeless on a suicide hub
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Old 12-17-04, 06:46 PM   #24
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I just screwed my cog on, then stuck it in a vice (so the wheel was parallel to the ground) then cranked as hard as I could.
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Old 12-17-04, 07:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwinnbikelove
I just screwed my cog on, then stuck it in a vice (so the wheel was parallel to the ground) then cranked as hard as I could.
This, along with loctite, is the method I use for old freewheel hubs where there is no room for a lockring. In a lot cases these hubs have a better chance of holding onto the cog than some of the cheap "track" hubs do. They are often built more solidly than the "jrs".


I have sacrificial wooden inserts in my vice that hold the cog very secure and then use the wheel to tighten it. Pedal all you want you will not get the cog on tighter. The cog is bottomed out. Back pedaling to slow down probably exerts more pressure on the cog than skidding does and I have yet to have one come loose from it.

Using a front brake with this setup is a viable and affordable way for some people to get into fixed gear riding.

Riding brakeless as a newbie is rediculous. Riding brakeless as a veteran is even more so. You should know better...
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