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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 04-16-12, 08:53 AM   #1
UCF Eric
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New Triple Triangle Frame

Anyone seen this yet? It was in an add on Facebook....

http://www.iminusd.com/breakbrake17-transfer-frame/
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Old 04-16-12, 09:11 AM   #2
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Yes we have. There was a thread about it around here somewhere, the company is a BMX company correct?
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Old 04-16-12, 09:13 AM   #3
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Oops....that's what I get for not searching first.
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Old 04-16-12, 09:17 AM   #4
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trip tri w/ downward sloping tt doesn't look the best, imo.
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Old 04-16-12, 09:36 AM   #5
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Ahhhh... more copies of stuff that used to be coveted years ago.

Why be original when you can just copy stuff that people used to like?
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 04-16-12, 09:54 AM   #6
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Looks like the GT track frame...
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Old 04-16-12, 09:57 AM   #7
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I think the frame looks sick.

Any word on price?
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Old 04-16-12, 10:17 AM   #8
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Looks like the GT track frame...
Agreed, but for that price I can acquire the frame it was based on.
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Old 04-16-12, 11:25 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by carleton View Post
Ahhhh... more copies of stuff that used to be coveted years ago.

Why be original when you can just copy stuff that people used to like?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Jarmusch
Nothing is original. Steal from anywhere that resonates with inspiration or fuels your imagination. Devour old films, new films, music, books, paintings, photographs, poems, dreams, random conversations, architecture, bridges, street signs, trees, clouds, bodies of water, light and shadows. Select only things to steal from that speak directly to your soul. If you do this, your work (and theft) will be authentic. Authenticity is invaluable; originality is nonexistent. And donít bother concealing your thievery ó celebrate it if you feel like it. In any case, always remember what Jean-Luc Godard said: ďItís not where you take things from ó itís where you take them to.Ē
#!
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Old 04-16-12, 11:39 AM   #10
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But that didn't "take" the design anywhere. They just straight up copied it and are selling it.

They weren't "inspired". They wish they had made the frame and had the rights to sell it...so they made the frame and are selling it without the rights.

The last 10 years of "inspiration" has been worse than Pop Art.

- Take something old that was unique and that people liked
- Copy it
- Change the color (or not)
- Hype it up on the internet
- ???
- Profit

And the ??? is really:
- Sell it to people who have been primed to like certain things for no other reason than that they "should" like it because of some unknown to them aesthetic that they don't have or even "get". But, by buying said item, the not only prove that they "get it" they also have "it". (But they still never "got it". But don't tell their friends that.)


The inspiration:




The problem is that it is ridiculously easy to copy, produce, and distribute any product today. So, it happens.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 04-16-12, 11:46 AM   #11
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But what if I really want a high quality GT triple triangle, but want to buy new? Instead of settling with their current selections (Gutterball lol), I would like a frame of comparable geometry but with high quality tubing. Unless I can stumble upon a NOS goldmine of Pulses and GTBs, I would be willing throw my money at some Taiwanese company that understands US marketing trends better than some US companies.

I don't really care where the creative inspiration came from. Its not like I'll feel it when I ride the thing. Or feel it when I'm soaking in the envy of having a sweet frame.
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Old 04-16-12, 11:48 AM   #12
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ALSO...Jim Jarmusch’s Golden Rules were about Directing MOVIES. Not about product design.

In literature there are 7 basic plots:

man vs. nature
man vs. the environment
man vs. machines/technology
man vs. the supernatural
man vs. self
man vs. god/religion


These can be expounded into these 36:

Supplication (in which the Supplicant must beg something from Power in authority)
Deliverance
Crime Pursued by Vengeance
Vengeance taken for kindred upon kindred
Pursuit
Disaster
Falling Prey to Cruelty of Misfortune
Revolt
Daring Enterprise
Abduction
The Enigma (temptation or a riddle)
Obtaining
Enmity of Kinsmen
Rivalry of Kinsmen
Murderous Adultery
Madness
Fatal Imprudence
Involuntary Crimes of Love (example: discovery that one has married one’s mother, sister, etc.)
Slaying of a Kinsman Unrecognized
Self-Sacrificing for an Ideal
Self-Sacrifice for Kindred
All Sacrificed for Passion
Necessity of Sacrificing Loved Ones
Rivalry of Superior and Inferior
Adultery
Crimes of Love
Discovery of the Dishonor of a Loved One
Obstacles to Love
An Enemy Loved
Ambition
Conflict with a God
Mistaken Jealousy
Erroneous Judgement
Remorse
Recovery of a Lost One
Loss of Loved Ones.


That's what Jarmusch was talking about when he says, "Nothing is original."
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 04-16-12, 11:52 AM   #13
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But what if I really want a high quality GT triple triangle, but want to buy new? Instead of settling with their current selections (Gutterball lol), I would like a frame of comparable geometry but with high quality tubing. Unless I can stumble upon a NOS goldmine of Pulses and GTBs, I would be willing throw my money at some Taiwanese company that understands US marketing trends better than some US companies.

I don't really care where the creative inspiration came from. Its not like I'll feel it when I ride the thing. Or feel it when I'm soaking in the envy of having a sweet frame.
What if I want a 1973 Porsche 911 RS? It was only made in 1973 and 1974.

What do I do? Should a Taiwanese company be allowed to make replicas inspired by that car?

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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 04-16-12, 11:54 AM   #14
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I think the "why fix what isn't broken" factor comes into play here too. I think innovation on a great frame for innovations sake is trying to change something that's already good. It's not like we have a problem with a million people making a bike that is shaped like this:


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Old 04-16-12, 11:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by GMJ View Post
But what if I really want a high quality GT triple triangle, but want to buy new? Instead of settling with their current selections (Gutterball lol), I would like a frame of comparable geometry but with high quality tubing. Unless I can stumble upon a NOS goldmine of Pulses and GTBs, I would be willing throw my money at some Taiwanese company that understands US marketing trends better than some US companies.

I don't really care where the creative inspiration came from. Its not like I'll feel it when I ride the thing. Or feel it when I'm soaking in the envy of having a sweet frame.
This is what I mean when I wrote:
Quote:
The problem is that it is ridiculously easy to copy, produce, and distribute any product today. So, it happens.
People want. People feel like they deserve to have, no matter what.

That combined with the fact this it is now easy to produce means that it happens.

And what's the effect?

The consumer gets something close to what he wants...but it's never what he really wants. And the value and prestige of the original rare bird are diminished.


Want. Want. Want.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 04-16-12, 12:18 PM   #16
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ALSO...Jim Jarmuschís Golden Rules were about Directing MOVIES. Not about product design.
...
That's what Jarmusch was talking about when he says, "Nothing is original."
Sure, specifically he's talking about movies. But I think in general he's talking about ideas.

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What if I want a 1973 Porsche 911 RS? It was only made in 1973 and 1974.

What do I do? Should a Taiwanese company be allowed to make replicas inspired by that car?
I want one too! Maybe Ruf will make one for us?

But perhaps the whole replica/kit car market is more relevant to this discussion.
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Old 04-16-12, 12:18 PM   #17
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Are you saying it's a copy because it has the triple triangle design or because it is actually a copy of the GTB or Pulse (same dimensions/geometry)?

If it's the former I guess we should start flaming Geekhouse, Yamaguchi and plenty of other high end builders for using triple triangle designs and for their lack of ingenuity. Right?
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Old 04-16-12, 12:28 PM   #18
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Sure, specifically he's talking about movies. But I think in general he's talking about ideas.



I want one too! Maybe Ruf will make one for us?

But perhaps the whole replica/kit car market is more relevant to this discussion.
I consider RUF a custom shop, not mass producing (or small batch producing) a replica.

Quote:
RUFs are built from unmarked Porsche bodies and chassis. When a chassis arrives, RUF builds their own independent work into the car. Because RUF installs many of their own-made parts (not to be confused with badge engineering), the company is recognized as a manufacturer by the German government.

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Are you saying it's a copy because it has the triple triangle design or because it is actually a copy of the GTB or Pulse (same dimensions/geometry)?

If it's the former I guess we should start flaming Geekhouse, Yamaguchi and plenty of other high end builders for using triple triangle designs and for their lack of ingenuity. Right?
It's a copy of the GTB design but using a modern fork.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 04-16-12, 12:35 PM   #19
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I guess this is a copy of the USA GT you posted as well?



And this Land Shark?



Or this Colossi?



I don't think a triple triangle design qualifies it as a "copy"...

That's like saying Bianchi Pista Concepts are copies of Leader 725TR's, which are copies of older Fuji Track Pros, which are obviously just copies of Visps.
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Old 04-16-12, 12:38 PM   #20
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I recall you saying nice things about the Affinity Kissena, isn't that just a copy of other popular track frames? Just curious why you may see that differently.
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Old 04-16-12, 01:00 PM   #21
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I recall you saying nice things about the Affinity Kissena, isn't that just a copy of other popular track frames? Just curious why you may see that differently.

In terms of a track racing bike, it's a good bike. I don't like the fact that it's an unabashed copy of Mr. Tiemeyer's designs. I think that I've also mentioned that, too.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 04-16-12, 01:02 PM   #22
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I guess this is a copy of the USA GT you posted as well?



And this Land Shark?



Or this Colossi?



I don't think a triple triangle design qualifies it as a "copy"...

That's like saying Bianchi Pista Concepts are copies of Leader 725TR's, which are copies of older Fuji Track Pros, which are obviously just copies of Visps.

Which came first?

If they came after the GTB...then they are copies.
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Roadies can run tempo all year as that's what humans were designed for. If you want to be a cheetah, lay around and lick your paws more.
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Old 04-16-12, 01:03 PM   #23
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You guys can whine all you want. It won't change the fact that these fixie boutiques are making copies of bikes and taking your money for them.
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Old 04-16-12, 01:08 PM   #24
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Oh carleton...
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Old 04-16-12, 01:33 PM   #25
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Oh carleton...
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