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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 04-30-12, 11:43 PM   #26
gigantor
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I've put some miles on both frames.

I'd definitely go with the bareknuckle. I absolutely couldn't stand the surly and sold it. I can definitely do a hundred miles on a bareknuckle, but that is just my own preference.
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Old 05-01-12, 12:47 AM   #27
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Just my opinion, and I haven't ridden either, but for longer distances I would usually opt for the most comfortable geometries. Now, that's not saying what is comfortable for me is comfortable for you. In general, a more relaxed geo is more comfortable for longer hauls. Looking at the two frames in topic, and at 58-ish sizes, the seat tube angles are similar and not too steep at 73.5 (BN)/73 (SR) degrees. The head tube angles are a degree different at 75 degree for the BN and 74 degree for the SR. (Of course wheelbase length has a factor in ride quality too but I don't know the length for the BN - the SR is )

Having said that, I also want to add that when I was shopping for my first dedicated single speed, I was concerned about more agressive frame geos. My only intent was to ride on the road for 1 to 2 hour rides. Because of this I wanted a more relaxed frame. My single speed conversion road bike has a 73 degree seat tube and a 73.5 degree head tube, which I wanted to try to stay close to when finding the dedicated single speed. The bike I ended up getting was a Madison due to the sale they had on them, and among other reasons. This bike has a 74.5/74 head/seat tube angles which concerned me about longer rides. I figured if it wasn't comfortable, it would just be a short distance/errand bike. Turns out that I have been on this bike for 2 hour rides with no complaints whatsover.

I think in the case of the one degree differences between the BN and SR may not concern you in the ride distances of them. You can always make up the degree or so in component fit setup, i.e. bar stem height/reach and saddle fore/aft.
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Old 05-01-12, 01:00 AM   #28
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I mean fatter 700c tires are going to offset any perception that one frame rides better than the other.
Umm, no. And riding 48x15 on fat tires is going to suck regardless.

The Gara, Kagero, and Super Pista are aluminum. Aluminum is seen as more fragile compared to steel. The Godzilla to my knowledge is made from really thin keirin-esque tubing. Attributes that do not correlate well with the OP's intended use of the bike he'll be building.

Everyone and their mom knows the Steamroller has the more compliant ride due to it's relaxed geometry. No one said the Bareknuckle was going to be more comfortable. That said, it doesn't mean the BK won't "feel" better. My analogy is comparing the driving feel of a luxury sedan vs a sport saloon.

Maybe I'm going too deep, I hope I didn't confuse anyone and I probably just made myself look pretty stupid.

tl;dr
I like having the feeling that I'm riding a TRACK frame.
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Old 05-01-12, 01:37 AM   #29
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Once upon a time, road bicycles that were fitted with fixed hubs were no different than the bicycles that were fitted with internal hubs or those new derailleur gears... track ends were usually reserved for track bikes and a good number of coaster equipped bicycles while most of the rest got forward facing dropouts.

If you are looking to lay some some mileage and do what might be shorter tours things like carrying capacity, fenders, and a geometry that lends itself to riding with a load will be important.

I have ridden centuries on my '55 Lenton with panniers instead of my briefcase and have been exceedingly comfortable and some of that comes from higher volume tyres and a really comfortable saddle.

As an "all rounder" I have ridden this bike stripped and used it for some old school time trialling figuring that if guys could knock down a sub hour 40 on bikes like this in the 50's, there was no reason I could not do the same thing. It is a deceptively fast bicycle.



My touring bike used to be a fixed gear and I also used it for riding long distances (fixed) and the only changes I made were to the drivetrain when it got her gears back... geometry is nearly identical to a Surly LHT which is essentially an old school touring frame.



One idea would be to get a touring frame or a road frame that would allow things like a rack, panniers, and fenders and convert it to a fixed gear drive.

Last edited by Sixty Fiver; 05-01-12 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 05-01-12, 01:43 AM   #30
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Here is what happened when I rode the EAI :

It was a very comfortable ride. The handling was wonderful. When I went chill pace with it, it was fun. When I tried to go fast, it was even more fun.


Surly :

It was a very comfortable ride. The handling was less responsive but fun. When I went chill pace with it, it was fun and comfortable. When I tried to go fast, it wasn't as fun as the EAI.

To its credit, the surly can fit 32's. You can go on dirt and stuff if that's your thing. It's also might comfortable with those bigger tires.
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Old 05-01-12, 01:46 AM   #31
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If I was looking for a distance oriented fixed gear the Steamroller would fall into the category of the Rocky Mountain Burrough... they are both nicely made bicycles with track ends but it makes me wonder why, when a company makes an urban oriented fixed gear bicycle they neglect to do those little things like add braze ons for racks and fenders.

I have a RM Burrough coming in for a refit as it's owner loves it but was a little pissed when he could not fit a rack and equip his bike with panniers... knocking down bigger miles with a backpack is no fun at all.
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Old 05-01-12, 05:57 AM   #32
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@Santaria...why did you pick those 2 frames for big mile rides like you describe?

if you have definitely narrowed your choices to only the ones in your op & if the ability to ever run bigger tires means anything to you, you have to go with the steamroller...
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Old 05-01-12, 06:15 AM   #33
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@the chain tensioner question on my Devil. Last night when I swapped out from 48x18 to 48x16 - I couldn't get the chain tensioner to slip back into the remaining dropout. I'm about 3/32nds of an inch from bottoming out the axle into the back of the dropouts, which is good. I wanted to be able to run the 48x18 on the flip-side because I will be doing some hills at the end of May up near my in-laws.

@Sixty Fiver: That's my current situation actually. I love the Devil frame I currently run which has a geometry somewhere south of the LHT but north of the cross check (for exact info, it's a 700c clone of the 93 XO-1). It's fast with my shakedown ride in the 81GI range pushing 27-and-some-change without even feeling like I was going into Elvis mode.

My N+1 moment in this whole thing is that my wife wants me to build her up a touring bike so she can keep up with me. She's convinced me to build up a more "race" oriented bike, which is what I'm looking at the numbers on.

I love my Devil, but feel like when I get up at 5 a.m. to go put down a base mile in bibs and a jersey, that I'm dressed wrong for the bike (if that makes any sense at all).
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Old 05-01-12, 06:28 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by fuji86 View Post
Have you fit this particular fellow's body ? Maybe the few degrees or millimeters on any of the dimensions and the Surly is more comfortable for him ? People come in all shapes and sizes. I mean we're talking about an inseam, body torso length, even arm length that varies. And tell me 50-150 mile ride that anyone is going to know the difference on 48/15 gearing ? I mean this is a long trip rider for 50-150 miles, it's not a few hundred or even kilo meter race on a velodrome or even on a rural paved street. I know Retrogression sells the EAI's, but what about the Dodeci Gara, Leader X Pedal Consumption or even a Toyo Godzilla at about the same price to + $ 100 more than a Bareknuckle. I guess you don't sell the Surly, so you're SOL on that sale. But I bet he might not be all that disappointed in the All City for about what he puts into a Surly frame ? Go one further, Bianchi super pista frame runs what and/or plus what the EAI's do too, depending upon where you shop ? All else being equal components wise and he can put a heck of a more comfortable seat under his butt and what is that worth ? Is it the difference in the frame pricing ? Most anything that is transportation is a system of the whole rather than just the frame. I know that you are very knowledgable and I respect that to a certain extent, but with all due respect what level rider is this fellow, maybe his legs and back are going to be screaming for mercy on any of them after riding those distances ?
Regardless of how tl;dr this post is (and your following one), it has nothing at all to do with the post I was responding to in which you foolishly stated that the BK and Steamroller were essentially the same frame and that you'd choose the Steamroller because of it's "name brand".

It may do you a sliver of good to remove your head from your buttocks.
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Old 05-01-12, 06:40 AM   #35
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I feel like I'm the only person on BFSSFG that doesn't like Surly Steamrollers. I mean I'd ride the **** out of one, but I could never envision myself buying one. It also almost seems like you may be better suited with wabi geometry?

I'd buy the BK 9.8 out of 10 times either way

and chain tensioners are semi useful but totally unnecessary. infact I notice I spend more time getting my rear wheel in on bikes with them then without them, mainly because I usually overtension it the first go around most of the time and have to readjust.
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Old 05-01-12, 07:09 AM   #36
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and chain tensioners are semi useful but totally unnecessary. infact I notice I spend more time getting my rear wheel in on bikes with them then without them, mainly because I usually overtension it the first go around most of the time and have to readjust.
I am finding this to be the case myself. I keep drawing the chain a bit too tightly on the initial setup and having to loosen everything and then reset the axle a second time - every time.

On a semi-tangent I do have to thank Scrod, Hairnet, Gig and a few others here for suggesting a bigger GI.

http://app.strava.com/rides/7676244

Without fighting the traditional Gulf Breezes (20-25 S/SSE) I figure as I adapt to the bigger gear ratio, I can probably push the Devil over the 30 MPH mark and get my average over 20 miles above the 18 MPH average.

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Old 05-01-12, 08:03 AM   #37
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Umm, no. And riding 48x15 on fat tires is going to suck regardless.
50-150 mile rides are going to suck on a regular basis unless you do something like this ?

Quote:
I have ridden centuries on my '55 Lenton with panniers instead of my briefcase and have been exceedingly comfortable and some of that comes from higher volume tyres and a really comfortable saddle.
The reality of that distance is that you will be sitting on a skinny seat for hours on end. I'd like to see anyone telling me to get my head out of my @ss to sit in an office chair for 7+ hours (20 mph x 7.5 hours = 150 miles) without getting uncomfortable and squirming in their seat ? Compound that with the fact you have to pedal & propel the bike as opposed to sitting idle. I'll say it, I have a Sports Authority atb that I bet I can be more comfortable on than either of the SS/FG bikes. Nice seat and fat tires, and it's not that appreciably slower for a duration of hours of these longer rides ?
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Old 05-01-12, 08:07 AM   #38
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I don't think you can win this one dude. The internet is too powerful.
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Old 05-01-12, 08:09 AM   #39
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50-150 mile rides are going to suck on a regular basis unless you do something like this ?



The reality of that distance is that you will be sitting on a skinny seat for hours on end. I'd like to see anyone telling me to get my head out of my @ss to sit in an office chair for 7+ hours (20 mph x 7.5 hours = 150 miles) without getting uncomfortable and squirming in their seat ? Compound that with the fact you have to pedal & propel the bike as opposed to sitting idle. I'll say it, I have a Sports Authority atb that I bet I can be more comfortable on than either of the SS/FG bikes. Nice seat and fat tires, and it's not that appreciably slower for a duration of hours of these longer rides ?
I'll concede that if it was a leisure ride with the wife and kids, then I'd just do it on a modified KM. This is base mileage. The bike is being built to train for long distance races (to keep the line of thinking straight) more than touring.

tl;dr

I have probably one of the top 3 best touring frames made (which is actually a clone of the best); long distance FG racer/trainer.
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Old 05-01-12, 08:09 AM   #40
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Regardless of how tl;dr this post is (and your following one), it has nothing at all to do with the post I was responding to in which you foolishly stated that the BK and Steamroller were essentially the same frame and that you'd choose the Steamroller because of it's "name brand".

It may do you a sliver of good to remove your head from your buttocks.
Well if you're going to hold me to what I posted verbatum, both frames are name brand and that was stated. I see little discerning the quality differences that justify paying $ 280 more. Had I reread my post I would have realized I hit the send button before editing that, sometimes that happens. But I still stand that the Surly is the better value 2 name brand frames, regardless of hand built or otherwise, there are some very good to excellent items being manufactured by machines.
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Old 05-01-12, 08:24 AM   #41
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Yea, like the Kilo TT.

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Old 05-01-12, 08:46 AM   #42
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Well if you're going to hold me to what I posted verbatum, both frames are name brand and that was stated. I see little discerning the quality differences that justify paying $ 280 more. Had I reread my post I would have realized I hit the send button before editing that, sometimes that happens. But I still stand that the Surly is the better value 2 name brand frames, regardless of hand built or otherwise, there are some very good to excellent items being manufactured by machines.
Of course I'm commenting on what you said verbatim. It is - after all - what you said and it makes no sense.

Here, let's have a look at it again:

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I'd go with the Steamroller because it's essentially the same geometry, cost & quality are similar & is name brand.
In case you haven't bothered to look at charts, the geo is quite different.

I'm not knocking a Steamroller because I think they're great frames - but it seemed like you were trying to put apples and coconuts in the same basket.
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Old 05-01-12, 10:26 AM   #43
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i like coconuts.
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Old 05-01-12, 11:22 AM   #44
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I like whatever the BK is.
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Old 05-01-12, 11:46 AM   #45
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I want a BK now. But I want a keirin frame more.
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Old 05-01-12, 11:49 AM   #46
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BK all the way. NJS is dead.
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Old 05-01-12, 11:59 AM   #47
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No way. Long live NJS. I'm gonna do a "neo NJS" build. It's the future. NJS frame, newer parts, SRAM brake levers, drilled fork. It will make little unicorns cry.
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Old 05-01-12, 12:08 PM   #48
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get dem hed's

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Old 05-01-12, 12:08 PM   #49
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I'll say it, I have a Sports Authority atb that I bet I can be more comfortable on than either of the SS/FG bikes. Nice seat and fat tires, and it's not that appreciably slower for a duration of hours of these longer rides ?
My lazy-boy is so much more comfortable than my fixed gear. I'm gonna ride it from now on. Everyone else should buy one too.
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Old 05-01-12, 12:28 PM   #50
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get dem hed's

Look at those cheaters on their weird futuristic bikes. Only the true heroes are using the NJS steel.
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