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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 01-18-05, 02:37 PM   #1
isotopesope
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leader frames

i just thought i would post a little ditty about the experience my friend harley (analoglove) and i had with his leader frame he just purchased off of ebay. here is a link for reference: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW

first of all, they are advertising it as a track frame, though it has 130 spacing, is drilled for brakes, and has cable stops... hmmm.... at least the bottom bracket is track height. moving on...

so harley comes over to have me help him press in his headset. the very first thing i notice is that the fork he received from them doesn't have a compression nut installed, let alone included. well, we figure we'll still install the cups and see if the steerer will need to be cut, etc.

we install the cups, race, bearings, and throw the fork into the frame... the UNCUT fork is only engaging 1/2 of the stem clamp. not cool. this fork and headset were provided by leader; they should have the proper steerer length to compensate their huge headtube and the stack height of the headset they are providing. we hope they just simply shipped the wrong fork with the frame, since the frame is the larger 58 size, and decide to give them a call the next day.

he calls and tells them the fork didn't come with the crucial compression nut and cap and the uncut steerer is way too short. they tell him it's an "urban myth" that the steerer needs to fit the whole stem clamp. thus, they wouldn't send him a new fork or give him a refund. that is so dangerous; i can't beleive they would say that, firstly, and then would make no effort to cover their arse or make the customer happy. perhaps you could get away with that with an alloy steerer, if you're ghetto... but carbon!?

one problem we noticed is the excessive length of the headtube above the top tube and below the downtube. i then had an idea. the existing headtube angle is 73 degrees. so with the help of my roommate eric, we figure out removing a cm from the bottom of the headtube will only increase the headtube angle by about one degree. so, we hacksawed, filed and milled a cm off the bottom and about 7 or 8 mm off the top. bing! eye brows! the fork now fits perfectly and he now has a more aggressive headtube angle with a headtube that looks normal, rather than waaay too long.

so, i guess i just wanted to let everyone know that the people at leader seem to be a bunch of dopes that won't stand behind their product. we talked about making some "m-i-s" letters to place in front of "leader"... that'll teach 'em... jerks.
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Old 01-18-05, 02:55 PM   #2
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Besides these people having bad customer relations, this is the problem whole problem with eBay. You can't actually see the product and look at it so you never know exactly what youare getting.
I hope you left them a negative comment?
I have to admit though you can get things on eBay that you would never see in any LBS
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Old 01-18-05, 03:06 PM   #3
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They didn't even spell 'pursuit' right in their ad...
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Old 01-18-05, 03:15 PM   #4
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he's waiting to get his promised compression nut sent to him, then he's going to leave them negative feedback.
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Old 01-18-05, 03:30 PM   #5
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Pics please?

OMG cut the head tube you guys got some baws. I guess it was not flarred out to accept the barrings?

I bought a Leader road frame about a year ago and have not had a single problem with it yet I even exchanged some parts at first for a better fit and they hooked me up nice. But that really does suck. No way should you not be able to play with the stem height with spacers. I have a steel fork on my fixie that goes 1/2 length of the stem and it works fine but still thats because I got the fork for 15 bucks.

I never really cared for the look of there track frame.
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Old 01-18-05, 04:59 PM   #6
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The BB drop is 6cm instead of 5cm of higher BB track bikes. With the bottom of the headtube cut, the BB is even lower. Make sure you get short crank arms.
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Old 01-18-05, 05:18 PM   #7
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we measured the bb after the surgery and it was barely lower. less than a cm. it's still higher than a standard road bb. he's going to be running 165's though.
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Old 03-16-05, 04:10 PM   #8
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Oh man, this is not encouraging... I'm having essentially the same issue. I too purchased Leader's track frame and carbon fork through eBay. After dropping off all the components to the shop, they called and said the fork's steerer tube wasn't long enough, etc etc, even without spacers, and that I should buy a different one from them. Well I already own a fork, so I call Leader (they've been very helpful up to this point) and the guy tells me as long as the steerer tube comes at least halfway through the stem, that's enough clamping force to ride safely. The bike shop insists this isn't the case. Both sides are saying the other is clueless and I'm in the middle trying to figure out who's either taking advantage of me or indeed clueless. A call to a 2nd bikeshop basically confirmed what the Leader rep said, that if you have 3/4 of the steerer tube egaged in the stem, they you're fine.

Anyhoo, sorta frustrating, wish me luck.
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Old 03-16-05, 04:29 PM   #9
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leader is clueless. i know several people who are all professional bike mechanics and they were all shocked by this story. i was told a carbon steerer should at least come up to the top pinch bolt of the stem clamp.
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Old 03-16-05, 04:56 PM   #10
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does leader only sell of ebay?

I've done this actually, got all in a hurry to cut my new fork to the right length and actually ended up chopping it about an inch too short. Carefull shopping for a new lower profile headset sorted things out for me, but obviously I could avoided the whole debacle...

anyways... aside from poor salesmanship... how do these Leader's ride? they sure are pretty looking
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Old 03-16-05, 05:08 PM   #11
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na na na na na na na na LEA-DER!
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Old 03-16-05, 05:12 PM   #12
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i only tried riding it once when it had toe clips and i was wearing my clipless mtb shoes... and i was on booze. so i can't truely say. it felt nice though i guess. my friend loves it.

it built up light. i was surprised. i figured it would be comparable to my 17 pound iro, but i would estimate it to be around 15.5 to 16 pounds complete. both with very similar parts and frame size too. maybe the different aluminum series is the major weight difference.
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Old 03-16-05, 05:25 PM   #13
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The frames are supposed to be okay, but the guy who sells them sounds mental.


Anyone know about these Leader frames

What's the skinny on Leader Bikes...Anygood??

has anyone heard of Leader frames?



from one of the posts above:

On 10/29/04 I paid for the leader bike. It arrived about a week later. Everything was OK but the two water cages were missing. I wrote to Brian twice about the missing cages. At first, he assured me that they would be sent right away. Two weeks passed by and then I got this email asking for my feedback:>
> > > >From: "eBay Member : leaderbikestore" <aw-confirm@ebay.com>
> > > >Reply-To: leaderbikestore@leaderbikeusa.com
> > > >To:
> > > >Subject: Your item has been shipped.
> > > >Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:49:38 -0800
> > > >I have shipped the following item to you. You should be receiving it
> > >shortly.
> > > >Once your item arrives in satisfactory condition, please leave feedback
> > > >for me. I will do the same for you.
> > > >Thank you again!


This was my response:

> > >From:
> > >Sent: Tuesday, November 23, 2004 9:41 PM
> > >To: leaderbikestore@leaderbikeusa.com
> > > >Subject: RE: Your item has been shipped.

> > >I got the bike but the two water cages were missing. I can not do any
>long rides until I get the cages. This is the tird e-mail I write.....If I do
> > >not get them soon my rec will not be possitive.
>

This was Brian's response:

>
> > >From: "Leader Bike Store" <leaderbikestore@leaderbikeusa.com>
> > >Reply-To: <leaderbikestore@leaderbikeusa.com>
> > >To:
> >
>
> > >Subject: RE: Your item has been shipped.
>
> > >Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2004 21:53:37 -0800
>
> > >I have e-mailed you twice about the cages. They are on back order. If you
> > >want I can refund you $20 credit or you can wait until I get them.
> > >Frankly I do not appreciate being threatened. I can give you neg feedback as
> > >well. Our inventory indicates we did ship you the cages but I am taking your
> > >word for it and reordering the cages for you. You get an awesome bike and a
> > great deal and then you decide to bite my hand
> > >off. If we made the mistake I apologize and would like to credit you or ask
> > >you wait until I get them.
> > >Brian c.
> > > _____ >


This was my response:

>
> >From:
> >Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 5:43 AM
> >To: leaderbikestore@leaderbikeusa.com
> >Subject: RE: Your item has been shipped.
>
> >Brian,
>
> >Your e-mails have gone from (paraphrasing):...we apologize...we'll send the
> >cages right away.....to: the cages were ordered and will ship ASAP.....to:
> >we did ship you the cages...I can give you neg feedback as well....you
> >decide to bite my hand off.....
>
> >I thought I was the buyer and you were the seller.
>
> >I do like my bike but your service is dismal and your manners do not belong
> >in a sales person.
>
> > _____

This was Brian's response:
>>>
>>>
>>>From: "Leader Bike Store" <leaderbikestore@leaderbikeusa.com>
>>>Reply-To: <leaderbikestore@leaderbikeusa.com>
>>>To:
>>>Subject: RE: Your item has been shipped.
>>>Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2004 10:20:50 -0800
>>>
>>>
>>>Ok. Will it be a refund of $20 for the cages or do you mind waiting until
>>>elite delivers the cages?
>>>
>>>Happy Thanksgiving,
>>>
>>>Brian
>>> _____


This was my response:

>>
>>From:
>>Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2004 8:01 PM
>>To: leaderbikestore@leaderbikeusa.com
>>Subject: RE: Your item has been shipped.
>>
>>Ok. Will it be a pair of good quality water cages in my front door by
>>12/1/04 or this will go as my rec:
>>
>>Avoid! Rude! Incomplete order. 4wks later offers $20 and treatens neg
>>feedback.
>>
>>
>> _____

On 11/26/04 leaderbike put $25.00 into my PayPal account. I ordered the cages with nashbar. I did not leave feedback for leaderbike. Then I posted my opinion of leaderbike in the forum. The graphics are cheap. The welding looks unprofessional (If you run your finger in the inside of the dropoffs it feels very rough and coarse). But the worse is their service. Brian sent me this email:

>From: "Leader Bike Store" <leaderbikestore@leaderbikeusa.com>
>Reply-To: <leaderbikestore@leaderbikeusa.com>
>To:
>Subject: RE: Your item has been shipped.

>Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 22:57:43 -0800
>
>HEY THANKS FOR THE FEEDBACK. I SUBSCRIBE TO THE FORUM.
>
>YOU DEFIANTLY LIE ABOUT THE PRODUCTS I SELL. EVEN THOUGH I AM NOT THE
>MANUFACTURER LEADER BIKE I DO NOT APPRECIATE THEY WAY YOU TALK ABOUT THE
>PRODUCTS.
>
>EVEN THOUGH YOU WERE VERY IMPATIENT, RUDE, AND THREATENING I REFUNDED YOU
>SOME MONEY.
>
>YOU MUST HAVE SOME DEEP PASSIVE AGGRESSIONS AND YOU ONLY FELT LIKE DUMPING
>IT ON SUCH A NICE PRODUCT.
>
>REMEMBER WHAT YOU RIDE. I WILL BE LOOKING AT YOUR POSTS AND REPLY IN KIND.
>
>BRIAN
> > _____


This was my reply:

Brian,
I told the true and I saved all the emails to prove it. I will post the letter that you just sent me in the bike forums and all future letters that you write to me....even when you write an apology.

This was Brian's answer:

You have some really deep aggression you need to let out. And it appears even though I have done nothing to deserve.
This will be the last and final e-mail I will ever send you. You are truly a sick man.
Cheers,
Brian
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Old 03-16-05, 05:42 PM   #14
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I can't believe how unprofessional and rude that is. Wow.
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Old 03-16-05, 05:43 PM   #15
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so whats this deep aggression all about? do you need a hug?
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Old 03-16-05, 05:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isotopesope
so with the help of my roommate eric, we figure out removing a cm from the bottom of the headtube will only increase the headtube angle by about one degree. so, we hacksawed, filed and milled a cm off the bottom and about 7 or 8 mm off the top. bing! eye brows!
did you face the headtube afterwords? if not it would be a good idea...
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Old 03-16-05, 06:29 PM   #17
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that first thread was awesomely entertaining...

good bikes or not, i'd avoid em just cuz dude's a wingnut... the frame up top is pretty tho...
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Old 03-16-05, 06:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ole_seventeen
Oh man, this is not encouraging... I'm having essentially the same issue. I too purchased Leader's track frame and carbon fork through eBay. After dropping off all the components to the shop, they called and said the fork's steerer tube wasn't long enough, etc etc, even without spacers, and that I should buy a different one from them. Well I already own a fork, so I call Leader (they've been very helpful up to this point) and the guy tells me as long as the steerer tube comes at least halfway through the stem, that's enough clamping force to ride safely. The bike shop insists this isn't the case. Both sides are saying the other is clueless and I'm in the middle trying to figure out who's either taking advantage of me or indeed clueless. A call to a 2nd bikeshop basically confirmed what the Leader rep said, that if you have 3/4 of the steerer tube egaged in the stem, they you're fine.

Anyhoo, sorta frustrating, wish me luck.
ole_seventeen
Geez, This is scary. I have installed many forks with carbon steerer tubes. The manufacturers instructions are very specific. Framesets from Look, Serotta etc come with full length carbon steerers. The compression plug must fill the clamp area. (Reynolds) They even tell you what stem designs clamping designs are not to be used. Other ways of reinforcing the clamp area is with a sleeve and JB weld. I can't imagin any reputable shop or mechanic saying that having that much unoccupied space in a carbon steerer stem clamping area is safe. It is not. It is acceptable within limits on steel or aluminum steerers. Still I install these with ample insertion and just enough space for the top cap to work properly.

Jude
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Old 03-16-05, 08:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legalize_it
did you face the headtube afterwords? if not it would be a good idea...
2nd'd.
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Old 03-16-05, 10:21 PM   #20
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my favorite part


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggurat
...You are truly a sick man.
Cheers,
Brian


lol
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Old 03-16-05, 10:28 PM   #21
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what an asshat
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Old 03-16-05, 10:35 PM   #22
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so this LEADER guy posts here?
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Old 03-16-05, 10:43 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [165]
so this LEADER guy posts here?
sort of. 4 posts. in the same thread.

http://www.bikeforums.net/members/leaderbike-8562.html
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Old 03-16-05, 11:05 PM   #24
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whoa. reading that was quite a trip. the degradation of a buyer-seller relationship fast forwarded.

Quote:
Originally Posted by baxtefer
sort of. 4 posts. in the same thread.

http://www.bikeforums.net/members/leaderbike-8562.html
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Old 03-16-05, 11:40 PM   #25
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wow, poor guy, some people just don't handle confrontations all that well and are offended easily......
I still think they are pretty looking frames, I just rather buy the bike or frame from the shop instead of dealing with ebay (that's where most of the problem is)... to bad they don't have any dealers in canada
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