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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 01-21-05, 05:44 PM   #1
dolface
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fixed/fixed vs fixed/free

so, it looks like i just stripped the lockring threads on the cheapo suzue hub i have, and since i have a masi coming in the mail i figured i'd start thinking about some phils, but i'm not sure whether to go fixed/fixed or fixed/free.

which configuration do you have, and what do you think of it? would you buy it again?

if it's got a freewheel do you ever use it, or does it just dangle there like a vermiform appendix?

if it's fixed/fixed is it worth the extra money to have the option of having two cogs on there?
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Old 01-21-05, 05:47 PM   #2
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Fixed/Fixed will give every option. You can put a freewheel on either side.
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Old 01-21-05, 05:47 PM   #3
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i've heard of people running a freewheel on one side of a fixed fixed hub,
i think there should be enough threads to keep it from stripping, but i've never used one on a Fix/Fix hub, so i can't say one way or the other
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Old 01-21-05, 05:48 PM   #4
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I'm guessing pretty much everyone is going to tell you to go fixed/fixed.
It's worth the price difference of an hour or two of work. How often are you really going to use a freewheel? plus with fixed/fixed you have the freewheel option anyway.
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Old 01-21-05, 05:49 PM   #5
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yeah, my impulse is to go fixed/fixed, but i wondered if there was some compelling reason to fixed/free that i was missing.
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Old 01-21-05, 06:00 PM   #6
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Well, there are those that have stripped track threads and had to go to bolting cogs to disc hubs for offroad use. Conceivably the same stresses that stripped the fixed threads for a fixed offroad application could strip them when threading a freewheel to track threading.

On-road this seems much less likely.
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Old 01-21-05, 06:16 PM   #7
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You can go just one sided (or whatever that would be called) with the Phils, right? What about that?
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Old 01-21-05, 06:58 PM   #8
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good point, i can go one-side as well, and save myself $25.00 in process.
anyone have a good reason not to go one-sided? other than the obvious 'more is better' argument
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Old 01-21-05, 06:59 PM   #9
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What kind of riding will you be doing? Street? Track? Both? If it's the lattter, definitely go with the fixed/fixed option. It's not hard to change a cog or swap bars to change your ride from street to track, but it's much easier/quicker to flip the wheel. Even if you're just doing different track events, it would be nice to change gears quickly, depending on the race.

Anyways, you say you have a Masi? If it's a track frame there probably aren't any holes for brakes as it is, so freewheel isn't really an option.
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Old 01-21-05, 07:05 PM   #10
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i'm gonna be riding street/track (sorry, shoulda said), and some moron drilled the masi for a front brake. (i don't have it yet though, should be here in a week or so).
but you make an excellent point; i have yet to use the brake on my street ride, so the chance of me riding ss is slim.
i juust wanted to make sure that i wasn't missing some obvious advantage of going fixed/free.

fixed/fixed it is!

now, anyone wanna weigh in on rims, and number of holes? i'm 5'7", 135#
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Old 01-21-05, 07:21 PM   #11
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Yeah, definitely go with the fixed/fixed then. The only real drawback I can see is it would be a little heavier, but not by that much.

You're pretty light so you could go with just about any rims you like. I would just go with 32 holes because you'll have a lot more options for rims that way.

Where'd you score a Masi track bike? Is it from california or italy? Nice find regardless.
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Old 01-21-05, 07:27 PM   #12
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thanks for the advice on the rims/drilling. i like the 32 holes/more options bit

re: the masi, i found it on cl santa barbara of all places. it's a custom built frame, but the guy i'm getting it from is not the guy who had it built.
he doesn't know a whole bunch about it other than that it's lugged and was built in the early 80's, so i'm guessing it was built in california.

but for $300 i figured it'd be hard to go wrong.
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Old 01-21-05, 07:32 PM   #13
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The real practicality of a double-sided hub is to have another side if you strip out the threads on the first one. And that means you want fixed/fixed.

Truthfully, many people go around on double-sided fixed/fixed hubs and never flip the wheel. Certainly you aren't likely to stop, flip the wheel, ride a hill, then flip it back. And people with a fixed/free combination end up on one or the other but don't really flip regularly. The major exception would be if you tend to go hypoglycemic, cramp, or your derriere gets sore, in which case the ability to coast makes the ride home much more tolerable -- the freewheel is simply a bailout setup.

As for rims, riding a fixie on the road tends to pound rims a little more than a freewheel. Plus if you use the pedals to stop hard (or do skid stops and that kind of thing) you are torquing the rim more than on a road bike. So I don't particularly recommend light fixie rims. Anyway, is that really the point of a fixie? I'd go for a solid rim and not worry about it. I have one pair of low-flange hubs with Mavic T520 touring clincher rims, with Rivendell RolyPoly tires, just for a comfortable, non-slip winter ride. I have another pair with Open Pros, and then a couple pairs with old Mavic SSC Bleu's. The latter are a huge waste of good money, but they get lots of comments and look fine. But they aren't particularly light.
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Old 01-21-05, 07:34 PM   #14
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mavic cxp33s!
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Old 01-21-05, 07:39 PM   #15
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Damn, for three bills you totally scored. The Masi stuff, especially california, seems to go for really high dollar among the whole nutjob collector crowd. So if you don't like it or it doesn't fit you or whatever you could probably make some money. Watch some of the ebay auctions, you'll see...

Post some pix when you get though, I'd love to see it.
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Old 01-21-05, 07:43 PM   #16
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i should mention that i already have a pair of high-flange 36h campy record pistas laced to velocity aeroheads, so i'm leaning towards something a little lighter.

i'll be posting pics.
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Old 01-21-05, 07:54 PM   #17
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the aeroheads are actually a pretty light rim (~400g). you're looking for something lighter than 400g?

the dt swiss rr 1.1 rims are pretty sweet, but they're even heavier than the aeroheads.
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Old 01-21-05, 07:58 PM   #18
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not necessarily, i just figured a bunch of gear-obsessed fixie-riders might have some more ideas than one gear-obsessed fixie-rider
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Old 01-21-05, 08:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 11.4
The real practicality of a double-sided hub is to have another side if you strip out the threads on the first one. And that means you want fixed/fixed.



Truthfully, many people go around on double-sided fixed/fixed hubs and never flip the wheel. Certainly you aren't likely to stop, flip the wheel, ride a hill, then flip it back. And people with a fixed/free combination end up on one or the other but don't really flip regularly. The major exception would be if you tend to go hypoglycemic, cramp, or your derriere gets sore, in which case the ability to coast makes the ride home much more tolerable -- the freewheel is simply a bailout setup.



As for rims, riding a fixie on the road tends to pound rims a little more than a freewheel. Plus if you use the pedals to stop hard (or do skid stops and that kind of thing) you are torquing the rim more than on a road bike. So I don't particularly recommend light fixie rims. Anyway, is that really the point of a fixie? I'd go for a solid rim and not worry about it. I have one pair of low-flange hubs with Mavic T520 touring clincher rims, with Rivendell RolyPoly tires, just for a comfortable, non-slip winter ride. I have another pair with Open Pros, and then a couple pairs with old Mavic SSC Bleu's. The latter are a huge waste of good money, but they get lots of comments and look fine. But they aren't particularly light.
No, not really. If you don't do anything stupid you shouldn't be stripping the threads, especially if it's a high quality hub such as a phil wood. I've got some very old track hubs that have been through hundreds of gear changes without stripping the threads.

I wasn't saying you should flip your wheel everytime you come to a big hill, or to use the extra cog as a "bailout" of some sort. But if you're using the same bike for street and track you'll want to change your gearing when you hit the track, the less hassle with it the better. A flip flop is also nice for doing different track events, you might not the same ratio when doing a quick event like a match sprint that you would when doing something longer like a miss and out.
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Old 01-21-05, 10:30 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckycat
No, not really. If you don't do anything stupid you shouldn't be stripping the threads, especially if it's a high quality hub such as a phil wood. I've got some very old track hubs that have been through hundreds of gear changes without stripping the threads.
I've heard many (read: a few , enough to be concerned) stories of people stripping the threads of their phil hubs by using inferior cogs (read: surly or soma). Use an EAI, Durace, a new White Insustries or Phil (!) cog, and you'll be fine!
In fact there was a thread about phil hubs stripping when used by inferior cogs a while back... search for it!
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Old 01-22-05, 10:11 AM   #21
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I've heard about that as well, it's unfortunate. But it's not like you're going to plan on stripping your hubs with some cheap ass cogs, so you get the double sided flip flop. I use duraace, suntour, campy, and EAI cogs, on various different hubs, all of which has been fine.
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Old 01-22-05, 10:48 PM   #22
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The gentleman initiating this thread said he'd be riding both road and track. On road, I'd generally agree that it's hard to strip out a hub, but on the track it's not that uncommon. And that's on Dura Ace or Campy hubs with Euro-Asia or Dura-Ace cogs. It's not from screwing and unscrewing cogs. Rather, it comes about from any of the following:

1. Not using a lockring: the cog loosens up while backpedaling and then if you jump hard, you slam the cog against the inside of the threads and simply tear the threads out. Some riders do it fairly frequently; others who can't really jump hard don't have this problem. Note also that on many hubs (including many good ones), the threads don't go all the way inside to the stop; consequently, you may only have five or six threads holding the cog, which makes it easier to strip them.

2. Some people can jump hard enough to tear out a cog anyway. This isn't a road fixie problem, but a strong kilo rider can do it.

3. Poorer quality cogs or hubs can do it as well. This thread wasn't about using nothing but Phil Wood hubs. Many people riding road fixies end up on inexpensive track hubs or converted road hubs. I wouldn't want to convince them that stripped hubs don't happen -- better just to pick the right kind of hub than to be forced exclusively to a high-end hub.

So how many people in this forum actually do flip a double-fixed wheel to climb a hill?
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