votedean

I don't want to trash on anyone's game, but I have a lead on these bikes. I own the Windsor Hour, and had rode it to my LBS the other day to pick up a cone wrench. The guy who works there, who is an awesome guy and will be building my next wheelset for dirt cheap, asked me how I like the bike. I said it was ok, and I'm aware of the scam of the rebadged frame. He laughed. He said he personally knew the man who was running the whole opperation out of florida. Now the bikes are shipped from texas, but the website for Windsor (I don't know about the Mercier) is registered to a name in florida. I tried to ask more about it, but he was being shady. He basically said they were just taking the names of gone under companies and using them on bulk tiawan built frames. Sort of like the Tsunami "bargains" you see floating around, they're just mass produced. Long story short, I'm still happy with the frame, your hub is probably a quando, and I want to start a scam.

baxtefer

um, that's not exactly a scam.

r0cket-

Minus the "gone under" part, that describes pretty much every factory track bike under $1k.

Skid Vicious

i bought this bike, im sure your getting it from sprtymama on ebay...i bought it for the same reason you did, wanted a good cheap starter bike, and all it is is a rebadged khs...this bike is a piece of ****. i rode it the first day downtown, and it was okay. the second time me and my buddys are goin thru golden gate park and the frikin pedal strips out of the crank. so in one week now i have to buy a new crank, so i get the sugino rd. i get the bike back and me and my buddy head for another ride, were goin round down town and all of the sudden while doing a skid my godamn hub strips out. so ive ridden the thing 3 times and ive replaced the crank and now im gonna have to get new rear hub. So all your really getting is a frame, cuz ur gonna have to replace everything else cuz its crap parts. as for the stickers there under clear coat, i covered them with electrical tape....i dont recomend this bike its a piece of shat.

votedean

the pedals were most likely your fault, they didn't come on the bike when I bought mine. I'm assuming you cross threaded them or something. As for the hub, yup, that'll happen. I think it's pretty understood when buying these bikes that all you're getting is frame, and if the components last you 100 miles, you got lucky. Sure, the crank might hold out, and the unbadged zero stem, but, I think you shouldn't invest in these bikes without realizing you're going to be putting alot into swapping and overhauling if you plan on riding alot. I'll stop knocking them now, I love my windsor and I'm getting new components every week. New Schwinn buildup on the way.

B17

Well, Santa's big brown year-round sleigh arrived with my "Mercier" today. It was packed in a Mercier box that had a KHS label on one end. The stem has a slight downslope, like it's a -19 or 20 degree rather than a -17. It's probably not the stem, but the headtube geometry- it wouldn't be cost effective to make a whole new stem to fit a starter bike. Anyhow, I used a 100mm Nitto with a Nitto B115 bar from Bens Bike rather than the stock 105mm stem/bar. I also switched from the stock saddle to a white Specialized Body Geometry (the jury's still out on this "upgrade"- there's a B17 waiting in the wings if this doesn't feel comfy enough to ride after a week or so). Pedals were replaced within the hour by some MKS AR-8s with MKS clips. No straps yet- I'll put those on when I'm capable of getting my feet in on the first turn, every time. Waiting on some white bar tape. I also plan on replacing the uuuuuugly seatpost, but I haven't decided what with yet. It'll be silver, tho. All those upgrades were planned when i bought the bike, and I'll be adding an 18t cog and an ebay-purchased Mavic 631 crankset/Miche Primato BB once it arrives. There's people who like the Miche BB fine, and people who hate it, but I know I can get 42mm with it, and it can't be any cheaper than what's on there now. That's gonna be it for purchases until something *cough* wheelset *cough* breaks or wears out. I have plenty of stuff to put on the frame, so I don't feel shafted pricewise- I'll get as many miles out of the parts as I can, and (with any luck) by then I'll have put the price out of my mind. Right now I have a track bike I can ride while I work on building up a lugged frame I got last week.

About the parts:

I have no experience with KHS, nor with track or fixed rides, but I've been webducating myself for about three years now, so I was not surprised to find that the hubs are every bit as cheap as folks here and on other sites have been saying. The headset's steel and does what headsets do without any problems. It's a keeper. Crank works fine, but is ugly. Strangely enough, I'm getting a 42mm measurement with my ruler. I keep going back and measuring it again and again, because I've been hearing 44mm from so many people, but it's 42 on this one. The drivetrain makes no sound other than the chain engaging with the teeth of the cog and chainring, and the teeth when engaged are centered inside the chainlinks. Good news- let's hope it stays good when the Mavic arrives.

I really like the simple, semi-aero look of the rims- I wish I could keep them and build them onto new hubs, but I hear reusing rims is a no-no. The 23mm tires are by Kenda, not fantastic, not crap either. I have some Conti 28s I'll probably add to the mix this weekend.

About the frame:

It's definitely good enough for upgrades, and that's what I'm doing with it. The only complaints I have are minor- I don't need to look at rack bosses on the seatstays or fender bosses on the fork dropouts. The fork's very nice- has a real track look, with a flat crown and round blades. There are some cutouts in the crown and the supports on the inside of the blades, too. I may break out the old model car brushes and fill those in with white paint.

I'm going to overspray the overkill fork decal (IMO, if the bike isn't a high-end model, fork graphics are inappropriate). I'll leave the frame decals alone for now.

About the ride (my first ever on a fixed):

My main concern was not crashing. I rode around the block a few times, bike felt great. I went slow enough that forgetting to pedal from time to time wasn't punished with a fall. Learned to slow down without jerky movements. With all the spare parts I have, I don't have a brake, so I haven't used one. I'm thinking I can learn to ride brakeless, and I may as well start out that way. Maybe I can survive the brutal Selma traffic without one. We'll find out soon enough. Brought the bike back inside, replaced the pedals and saddle, grabbed a backpack and rode about 2 miles to a store. By the time I got home, the bike felt less like a "fixed gear" and more like a bike. That's a good thing, IMO.

I'm gonna go practice trackstanding.

upthebikepunx

thanks for the update! despite all the negative stuff, i've heard an equal amount of positive stuff, so i'm still pretty stoked. i guess i'll have to wait until thursday to check it out for myself. bummer the decals are under the clearcoat, though.

12XU

I've been debating pretty heavily about getting this bike, as it's been between this and that Surly Steamroller frame on there right now. So, it's either have a complete bike from the start and be able to get around Pittsburgh when I move there in a week, or have to go to Krayniks, grab some cheap parts, and throw something together for the time being. Would anyone recommend the Deep V wheelset from IRO for 250 bucks? It seems a little steep to me, but maybe someone has some words of wisdom and a consoling pat on the back. I really want to buy quality components, but I'm on a budget and I don't really have any connections to people offering deals so I'm in quite a pickle. Help!

jimv

Really?? I've never heard this before and in fact have re-used rims many times. I just check them over to make sure there's no damage and relace them. Has anyone else heard this about rims? If so, what is the reasoning behind it?

Jim

andylago

hey man moving to pgh huh? have you lived there before? i just moved FROM the burgh a few months ago and i'm missin it. some people will knock it but it's really a great city for the money. ...lots of character. anyway i would get the regular iro wheelset for less $. i have them on my bike and have had no probs, although it's only been a couple hundred miles. i mean, they're the same rims, one's just got a deeper v. the regular wheelset actually has a pretty deep v compared to most normal rims anyway. and you're still getting the same hub either way. it seems pretty solid, plus he has 'em in fixed/fixed now!!!

12XU

Yeah, I have a bunch of friends there, so there should always be something to do. I've never actually lived there, however I've visited a few times. The reason I've almost been suckered into the deep V is because I want wheels that are colored. I think the silver rims are ugly as hell and want something with a nice profile with a color to match/compliment my frame. Also, it's really scaring me when people are worried that their hubs will fail after a few hundred miles? Are hubs really that crappy that they'll break after that short of a time span? I'd think if I spent 100+ on hubs, they'd be made to last.

andylago

i've heard nothing but good about the iro hubs, i wouldn't worry about that. mine are holding up fine and i'm expecting tehm to last. a couple weeks ago the lbs kept half-ass tightening my lockring and consequently i spun my cog back about 7 or 8 times while skipping pretty hard, and the threads are still intact. and i suspect repeated eposodes of spinning the cog off are probably pretty hard on the threads, which are usually the weak link i'm told. but they held, and i am impressed. i finally got ahold of a lockring spanner and tightened everything down the right way (myself) everything has been honkey dorey. and the regular wheelset is the velocity aerohead, which comes in all the same clors as the deep v. my aeroheads are powdercoated electric blue and look real nice. you still get a color profile with them because they have a pretty deep v, just not as deep as the "deep v," if that makes sense. IMO one of the best buys around. but whatever you do, DO NOT buy wheels from NYC bikes.

12XU

Thanks for the first hand account. I may look into the Aerohead wheels due to a tight budget.

upthebikepunx

so i got this sucker yesterday and rode it a lot. it's pretty fun, but whenever i'm pushing hard to slow down, or sometimes when i'm pushing hard to start up, something slips. maybe the cog is spinning on the hub? there's definite slippage. are there any quick fixes to remedy this without buying a new hub or cog or something? should i get a chainwhip and try tightening it? or what exactly do i do in this situation. this is my first fixed gear, so i'm kind of learning as i go.

baxtefer

cog slipping due to the lockring being loose.
very common "problem" with the KHS/mercier/Windsor etc. bikes when they get assembled. Tighten it before you strip the hub!
1. pedal uphill and use a brake to stop, or at least avoid backpressure. Your cog will be quite tight.
2. get a lockring wrench and tighten that ring as hard as you can.

emayex

its just rebranded khs? good...i feel better about not buying one

12XU

I caved in and bought one because I don't want to bother building a better bike at the moment, so hopefully it doesn't suck/I don't strip the hub in a week.

Skid Vicious

thast what happend to me, tighten that damn lockring or your gonna be spending money on a new hub like me

wilcru

You'll get a 42mm chainline with it and a Miche Primato crankset. With another crankset you might not (read: probably won't).

jacobs

Just to clarify:

The Mercier is a rebadged KHS Flite 100.

The Windsor Hour is a rebadged Fuji Track frame with an even worse set of components then the KHS/Mercier (just for example: the tires will shriek like a dying cat when you try to skid.)

These are not the same, and judging by how many of you are saying you bought one recently, I assume you bought a Windsor (the Merciers haven't been on eBay for a while)....and they aren't a rebadged KHS.

upthebikepunx

the merciers are totally on ebay. as of a couple days ago she had like 10 left. you gotta ebay "2005 track fixed" or something, they don't list "mercier" in the title.

jacobs

Fair enough!

Still, people seem to be confusing the Windsor and the Mercier through this thread.

B17

No, no. My bike is black, with "Mercier" on it in far too many places. I don't think there's any doubt about its origin. And I already knew that the Mercier is a KHS, and the Windsor a Fuji. There was another thread about it awhile back where I found out about this. In fact, I thought about buying a Windsor on ebay a few weeks ago, but decided against it when a lugged frame came up. I got the lugged frame instead, and then the Mercier. Glad I got the better (or less crappy, as the case may be) components.

It really isn't difficult to distinguish between the two anyhow- the Mercier has those fender mounts on the fork drops, and comes with the silver Touro crank (like the 2005 KHS, IIRC). The Windsor's fork is clean, free of fender mounts, and the crank and headset are both black, as they are on the Fuji. Also, the Fuji/Windsor looks to me (from images) like round tubes throughout, and the Mercier's downtube has a slight oval. Not quite aero, but then, I'm not quite fast, either.

As has been said before, the Mercier/KHS is back on ebay after a brief absence. That's a good thing. I was jonesing for a bike to ride and upgrade as necessary or desired, and I was on the verge of desperation- was almost thinking about trying one of those Alpha Mercurys. If I thought I could buy that bike, remove the fork (why doesn't anyone mass-produce a straight-bladed unicrown steel road fork for a decent price?) and get my $$ back by selling the bike as "almost new, with a different fork" on ebay, I'd still do it. But that bike is ugly, IMO, and would have never made me happy.

jacobs

Those Alpha Mercury bikes are some of the most ugly things I've ever seen.

Glad you're happy with your Mercier, I'm not trying to knock it or the Windsor, it just seemed that somewhere in this thread people started substituting the Windsor for the Mercier, and they aren't the same thing.

B17

Works for me- I have a Primato crankset as well. But I'm not in a hurry to replace the Mercier crank because 1) I have no BB tools for either the Miche (Campagnolo tool, says Business Cycles) or the stock Truvativ (Shimano, I assume) cranks and 2) my chainline is fine as it is- see my "review" above. The closest LBS is a 50-mile drive from my house, so that plays a role in how easily I can get stuff done. Plus, the Miche chainring requires a 1/8" chain (and cog- I'm not playing any mix/match games with chain width. Two things I want to avoid at all costs are pedal strike and chain derailment). I'm already wanting an 18t cog, but I've heard so much bad about the (Quando? Suzue? Who knows?) hub threads that I'm afraid of having the LBS even replace the cog. So I'll just wait until I get a new wheelset and do the whole thing at once. That way I can put the Mercier wheels/crank/saddle/chain/cog/lockring/bar/stem on a third (yes, third- unknown TIG frame bought used from shop mech at LBS is a bit too big for me) frame and sell as an entire used bike. Not great parts, but by June, they'll still have fewer than 200 miles on them, and they'll come with a nice enough frame and fork for a starter to upgrade later.

I'm upgrading one bike (the Mercier) and slowly building up the aforementioned lugged frame, and am trying to decide which crank should go on which bike. I love the Mavic's look, but it's obviously used, and the Miche is new. So maybe the Miche for the Mercier, and the Mavic on the lugged frame (much later) with a Phil, if another Miche BB doesn't work.