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  1. #1
    Junior Member 532nm's Avatar
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    Securing fixed cog w/o lockring

    Suppose I have hub with freewheel threads only. If I use red loctite and wrench the cog on really tight, will it be strong enough to resist backpedal braking? If not, what are other options? I probably can't weld steel to aluminum very easily. But maybe I can drill a hole through the cog lip into the hub threads and run a screw in?

  2. #2
    pro in someone's theory prooftheory's Avatar
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    Do a search on suicide hub and then do the right thing and get an actual track hub.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Bat56's Avatar
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    You have three options:

    1. Rotafix
    2. Bottom bracket lock ring
    3. Zip tie the cog to the spokes

    All of these might result in someone's death; probably yours.

  4. #4
    Junior Member 532nm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by prooftheory View Post
    Do a search on suicide hub and then do the right thing and get an actual track hub.
    Found this on Sheldon Brown's site:

    Suicide Hub A rather alarmist and silly name for a freewheel hub used as a fixed-gear hub. Any standard-thread freewheel type hub will also accept a fixed-gear ("track ") sprocket . This is a common technique for converting an older bike to fixed gear on the cheap. Despite the silly name, this is no more dangerous than using a freewheel, as long as you keep front and rear hand brakes installed.

    But it doesn't really provide any information regarding what I requested in my initial post. I'm not buying a track hub. I'll just simply get rid of the bicycle and forget the whole project if nothing else works.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bat56 View Post
    You have three options:

    1. Rotafix
    2. Bottom bracket lock ring
    3. Zip tie the cog to the spokes

    All of these might result in someone's death; probably yours.
    Sounds overly-dramatic.

    The bottom bracket lockring may be helpful, though.

  5. #5
    Fresh Garbage hairnet's Avatar
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    got brakes
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    I'd rather ride a greasy bowling ball than one of those things.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member Bat56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 532nm View Post
    Sounds overly-dramatic.
    Have you ever been to a funeral?

  7. #7
    pro in someone's theory prooftheory's Avatar
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    You should do a search using the forum search tool for threads with "suicide hub" in the title to get lots of opinions about whether loctite is sufficient etc. But the quote you have from Sheldon ought to be enough. He thinks it is safe ... if you have two brakes. If you have only one brake it is considerably less safe and if you are riding brakeless then it no, the name is not dramatic.

  8. #8
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    Brakeless "suicide"-hub on this bike for two years:



    Still alive.

  9. #9
    pro in someone's theory prooftheory's Avatar
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    So, answer the OP's question. What are you using? Which color loctite? And really how many miles have you put on that particular bike?

  10. #10
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    I'm not using any Loctite but I am using a BB lockring - even though some people on this forum swear it's useless.

    Not really sure how many miles are on it but it's the bike I ride in the rain, on quick shop errands, when I'm carrying stuff (as pictured) and during the winter. While I do ride it quite a bit, the longest ride I've ever done on it has been about two miles to the beach pictured on roads with very little car traffic.

    Once when I was skidding like a maniac in the parking lot across the street from the shop trying to get the cog to loosen up/fail, I snapped the non drive side crank arm instead (it was just a cheapo crank but still). I'd say the cog isn't going anywhere...

    I'll probably throw a brake on one of these days.

    By the way: I'm not saying everyone should go out and ride a brakeless fixed gear bike equipped with a suicide hub at maximum speed and busting mad skidz in busy downtown traffic. I'm just saying that in my experience, I have had no trouble and most "reports" of how completely unsafe it is are typically made by people who have never done it.
    Last edited by Scrodzilla; 11-23-12 at 02:52 PM.

  11. #11
    I fear angry birds Santaria's Avatar
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    A while back I got the lockring off my bike and after talking with Scrod, spent hours attempting purposefully to force the cog to break free without a wrench and it stayed snug as sin until I gave up and purchased said wrench from Retrogression. I continued to ride without a lockring for 3 days without having it budge in anyway. And I was using an IRD canti on the front for safety; point being, you probably can snug it on their with the right tool and get away with the BB lockring as insurance and be safe as long as you're in control of the bike.

    I would never ride brakeless only because with a wife and four kids, my insurance wouldn't pay a dime if they thought I was doing something "dangerous." So I play it safe and always have 1/2 brakes on the Devil.
    THE DEVIL

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    If that was my house and you put your stupid bike in my flower garden to take a picture, I would come outside in my underwear and light you on fire.

  12. #12
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bat56 View Post
    Have you ever been to a funeral?
    Don't be such a ninny.

    A friend of mine has put thousands of miles on a bike with a track cog on a freewheel hub and I don't think he's using a BB lock ring. He may be using Loctite, but I think he just tightened the cog RFT. If the cog were to come loose it's not like the bike explodes. All of his bikes have at least a front brake, most with two.

    Yes, a proper track hub is ideal, but that wasn't the OP's question.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post

    Once when I was skidding like a maniac in the parking lot across the street from the shop trying to get the cog to loosen up/fail, I snapped the non drive side crank arm instead (it was just a cheapo crank but still). I'd say the cog isn't going anywhere...

    I'll probably throw a brake on one of these days.

    By the way: I'm not saying everyone should go out and ride a brakeless fixed gear bike equipped with a suicide hub at maximum speed and busting mad skidz in busy downtown traffic. I'm just saying that in my experience, I have had no trouble and most "reports" of how completely unsafe it is are typically made by people who have never done it.
    Nice on the mad skidz crank breaking skillz. For some reason I figured the only skid marks I would find around you would be in your boxers.

  14. #14
    %#&*#%>?% Build your own's Avatar
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    FWIW I put a cog on a old mtb hub for a snowbeater using red loctite(done proper with clean,de-greased threads and 48 hrs curetime) and was unable to get it off when i didn't like the gearing. Not with a chainwhip,not with the cog in a vise turning the wheel, had to change the chainring instead.

  15. #15
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Build your own View Post
    FWIW I put a cog on a old mtb hub for a snowbeater using red loctite(done proper with clean,de-greased threads and 48 hrs curetime) and was unable to get it off when i didn't like the gearing. Not with a chainwhip,not with the cog in a vise turning the wheel, had to change the chainring instead.
    Try heat next time. That's what Loctite says will loosen their red product.

  16. #16
    7-speed doomsday prepper ThermionicScott's Avatar
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    Track hubs are surprisingly affordable.
    Quote Originally Posted by chandltp View Post
    There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
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  17. #17
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
    Track hubs are surprisingly affordable.
    Yup, and a hub you already have on hand costs nothing.

  18. #18
    Junior Member 532nm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    Yup, and a hub you already have on hand costs nothing.
    Which is especially nice when you've only got $8 in the entire bike.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Bat56's Avatar
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    And since all you need to do is swap out the hubs the whole operation is cheap and fast.

  20. #20
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    Sigh.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Bat56's Avatar
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    You started it.

  22. #22
    one life on two wheels cobrabyte's Avatar
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    Ugh, ss/fg is so full of contrarians....

    I'm using a fixed cog on a freewheel hub with a BB lockring, no loctite. No problems here after a couple thousand miles on the bike. I used this tool to install: http://www.worldclasscycles.com/shimano_chain_whip.htm It works for both fixed lockrings and BB lockrings, both 3/32 and 1/8 chains. Quite handy.

  23. #23
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobrabyte View Post
    Ugh, ss/fg is so full of fools....
    fixed

  24. #24
    Senior Member Bat56's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobrabyte View Post
    Ugh, ss/fg is so full of contrarians....
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cobrabyte View Post
    Ugh, ss/fg is so full of fools....
    fixed
    Yeah, no contrarians here.

  25. #25
    Senior Member
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    I have used the rotafix method with success (no cog loosenings) for >2 years.

    I prefer a track hub when convenient, because it's either no more dangerous, or safer. I rotafix the cog with a lockring anyway to ensure I don't strip the threads of my hub. Maybe the lockring is superfluous in this arrangement.

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