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  1. #1
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    need to replace my bareknuckle

    My bareknuckle frame died (its a long story) and I need a new frameset to slap its parts onto, which includes relatively nice stuff (Sugino 75 crankset, custom 1500gm wheelset, thomson seatpost, etc).

    At first I was considering just buying another Bareknuckle (~$700), but after looking around, now I am thinking about just getting a Pake French 75 frameset (~$400). Geometry is similar, and the Pake is probably a lot lighter, mainly because of the carbon fork. And its several hundred dollars cheaper. I also make enough money that I don't need to ride around a crappy Kilo TT, but on the other hand, saving money is always nice. Has anybody ridden this thing?

    For this particular bike I am not interested in fenders, big tires, or relaxed geometry. I will mainly be riding this thing on roads, for relatively short, high intensity rides with some hills. I'm mostly interested in stiffness, and to a lesser degree, weight, and I would prefer provisions for front brake and standard round tubes (so I can mount bottle cages). The BK worked well for this, which is why I'm tempted to get another, or something like it.

    I'm also considering a Wabi Lighting SE, at a substantially higher cost, although this deviates from the original intent of the bike (lighting fast sprinting bike) toward a more comfy road-oriented bike. I'm willing to consider that, but am hesitant. I have other road bikes after all. But considering the apparently quality of the frame, it may be worth spending the extra money here, although thats about as high as I am willing to go. (links to frames below)

    What do you think? What about other options.




    Pake...~$400.....http://store.somafab.com/paaltrfrset.html'
    Bareknuckle...~700....http://www.retro-gression.com/produc...track-frameset
    Wabi Lightining SE...~775...http://www.wabicycles.com/Lightning-SE_bike_spec.html
    Last edited by mihlbach; 11-26-12 at 01:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Morton Nagrom_'s Avatar
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    Dog, I ride the nicest kilo on the planet. The frame is nice. Ain't nothin wrong with it unless its the brand you don't like.
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  3. #3
    Cat Enthusiast ddeadserious's Avatar
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    I've been very happy with my 722 and wouldn't hesitate to put high-end parts on it, but only the Heritage and "LO" versions are available now.

    Have you considered the Cinelli Gazzetta? If I were getting another steel bike, I'd probably be torn between the Gazzetta and the BK. I don't like the way aluminum rides though, so I'm increasingly partial to steel.
    ALL CITY NATURE BOY

  4. #4
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  5. #5
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    I'm also partial to steel frames but I do love my 7003-AL Dodici. The French 75 is a nice ride on smooth roads but can be a bit of a nightmare on bumpy/torn up pavement.

    Have you considered a Soma Rush or All-City Big Block?

    CogHouse is also selling off remaining US stock of the mass-marketed Dodici Gara frames and matching carbon forks on eBay for decent prices.
    Last edited by Scrodzilla; 11-26-12 at 12:57 PM.

  6. #6
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddeadserious View Post
    Have you considered the Cinelli Gazzetta? If I were getting another steel bike, I'd probably be torn between the Gazzetta and the BK. I don't like the way aluminum rides though, so I'm increasingly partial to steel.
    OK. Will have to look at the Gazzetta more carefully. The stainless dropouts seem nice, but otherwise cheap cromo. Not sure if its worth the cost over another cheap steal frame. Its been a long time since I frame-shopped, so I don't know much about whats currently available. Maybe I am underestimating it?


    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    I'm also partial to steel frames but I do love my Dodici. The French 75 is a nice ride on smooth roads but can be a bit of a nightmare on bumpy/torn up pavement.

    Have you considered a Soma Rush or All-City Big Block?
    Thats one of my main concerns with the French 75 although it would be an interesting experiment. The Bareknuckle didn't ride very nicely either compared to a road bike, but it never bothered me much. The main thing I disliked about the BK was the massively heavy, ugly, and stiff fork. The French 75 fork is carbon and looks way nicer overall.

    The Rush and Big Block don't have the right geometry I'm looking for....top tubes too long relative to head tube.
    Last edited by mihlbach; 11-26-12 at 01:04 PM.

  7. #7
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    The Gazzetta may not be fancy high-end steel but it is a very nice frame. It's also considerably lighter than a BK of a simliar size.

  8. #8
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    The Gazzetta may not be fancy high-end steel but it is a very nice frame. It's also considerably lighter than a BK of a simliar size.
    How about stiffness?

  9. #9
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    CogHouse is also selling off remaining US stock of the mass-marketed Dodici Gara frames and matching carbon forks on eBay for decent prices.
    Cool...link to geometry?

  10. #10
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    It's the same geo as the Italian-made Gara frames:


  11. #11
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mihlbach View Post
    How about stiffness?
    The only one I've ridden is one that was built up for a customer at the shop and it was too small for me so it was a little tough to get a good feel for it but it seemed very responsive and similar to my BK overall.

  12. #12
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    It's the same geo as the Italian-made Gara frames:

    Thats the most minimalist geometry chart I have ever seen! 73 degree head tube angle with 30mm fork offset seems like it would be oddly sluggish. (I'm looking at the 57.)

  13. #13
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    Yeah, when I had my custom 56cm frame made I had them tighten it up a wee bit to be more like my Bare Knuckle.

  14. #14
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagrom_ View Post
    Dog, I ride the nicest kilo on the planet. The frame is nice. Ain't nothin wrong with it unless its the brand you don't like.
    Not worried about the brand...I'm sure the frame is fine. Its not what I want. Geo is also not to my liking.

  15. #15
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrodzilla View Post
    The only one I've ridden is one that was built up for a customer at the shop and it was too small for me so it was a little tough to get a good feel for it but it seemed very responsive and similar to my BK overall.
    LOL...in other words, you have no idea! Anyway, sounds like I should consider it. The geo is in my ballpark.
    Damn, now I have to choose between four framesets.

  16. #16
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagrom_ View Post
    Dog, I ride the nicest kilo on the planet. The frame is nice. Ain't nothin wrong with it unless its the brand you don't like.
    I agree, I really like the frame, nothing wrong at all with it.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonSC View Post
    I agree, I really like the frame, nothing wrong at all with it.
    I have a couple BD bikes (not a Kilo tt). I don't dispute that its a nice frame for what it costs, and it certainly doesn't hold anyone back.
    But its seems like there a lot of this going around...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

    I can point out several things wrong with the Kilo tt...for instance, fender eyelets without room for fenders. What about the countless different models using the exact same cookie cutter frame? And also, how about the evolving geometry chart with no apparent changes ever made to the frame itself? I have absolutely no faith in BD geometry charts.

  18. #18
    Senior Member ColonelJLloyd's Avatar
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    Van Ness? Or Rush if you want more "track" geometry.
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    I prefer email to private messages. You can contact me at justinhughes@me.com

  19. #19
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Soma's pages for the Rush and Van Ness have not been loading for me for two days now, so I can't look at the geo. Don't need the lugs, though.

  20. #20
    Painfully average. calv's Avatar
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    Just so you know.. Scrod is selling the French 75 for $350 right now for today's sale.

    http://www.retro-gression.com/produc...ch-75-frameset
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Spoonrobot's Avatar
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    Allow me to live vicariously through you:

    http://www.dpmsports.com/dolan/03-track/precursa.html

  22. #22
    Senior Member mihlbach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calv View Post
    Just so you know.. Scrod is selling the French 75 for $350 right now for today's sale.

    http://www.retro-gression.com/produc...ch-75-frameset
    Yeah, I just noticed that pop up in the last couple hours. Wonder if it had anything to do with post #4?
    I'm getting impatient. I probably will just go ahead and order this from Scrod this evening if I don't change my mind.

  23. #23
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    Ha! Pricing on the whole site has been randomly going crazy throughout the day because it's Monkey Business Monday!


  24. #24
    Senior Member gigantor's Avatar
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    I see nothing wrong with the kilo TT. I'm about to buy a used complete grape soda kilo TT and throw some tektros on there. Beater status.
    "I wanted to test his might" -Jaytron
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  25. #25
    Veteran Bastard Scrodzilla's Avatar
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    Nobody said there was anything wrong with a Kilo TT, it's just that mihlbach is looking for something else (and stated some good reasons why).

    It's okay to not ride a Kilo TT.

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