Shoulder/neck pain
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Shoulder/neck pain
Switched from bullhorns to compact road drops over the weekend. Did a shakedown ride on Saturday of about 6 miles and felt pretty good. Then yesterday did a much longer hilly ride of about 30 miles. Been doing 15-20 miles previously with no real issues. Toward the end of the 30 mile ride my shoulders and neck got really uncomfortable and I couldn't really find a comfortable position to ride in. Inside my shoulder right blade to the outside of my shoulder was hurting a lot after the ride.
No sure if it was prompted by the switch in bars or just the fact that it was a slightly longer but much more challenging ride including a lot steeper and longer hills where I was probably gripping the hoods pretty tightly while grinding out the hills.
Did a fit calculator and I'm pretty much right around their suggestions. One issue is that the bike is a Redline 925. It's a 54cm frame (seat tube) but according to their geometry charts it has 58cm top tube which seems odd. By my calculation it's more like 57. The fit calculator recommends more like 55-56 with a 100-110 stem. I've compensated by having a 75mm stem as the frame has always felt too long. Maybe I've gone too short with the compact drops?
Just wondering if I should switch things up again or wait to see if the pain goes away and I get used to the position.
No sure if it was prompted by the switch in bars or just the fact that it was a slightly longer but much more challenging ride including a lot steeper and longer hills where I was probably gripping the hoods pretty tightly while grinding out the hills.
Did a fit calculator and I'm pretty much right around their suggestions. One issue is that the bike is a Redline 925. It's a 54cm frame (seat tube) but according to their geometry charts it has 58cm top tube which seems odd. By my calculation it's more like 57. The fit calculator recommends more like 55-56 with a 100-110 stem. I've compensated by having a 75mm stem as the frame has always felt too long. Maybe I've gone too short with the compact drops?
Just wondering if I should switch things up again or wait to see if the pain goes away and I get used to the position.
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I didn't but I hadn't done such a long, hilly ride. Actually felt too stretched out on those with a slightly longer stem 80mm. Reason I switched was that I had been away and rented a regular road bike for a few days (KHS Flite 700) and really liked the feeling of having the hoods and positioning options. Did a bunch of 20 mile rides on that bike and was very comfortable and was trying to mimic that positioning.
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My initial guess would be that your bars are too low for your current level of fitness and flexibility and the longer, tougher ride brought out the problem. There may be other issues such as saddle position and tilt so you'll need to work through them as well - sometimes small changes make big differences.
As for the fit calculator, it's worthless because it does not take into account your physiology and does not take into account your strength, fitness and flexibility. Those are the things that determine your bike fit and bike fit can only be determined by trial and error - an experienced eye helps tremendously.
As for the fit calculator, it's worthless because it does not take into account your physiology and does not take into account your strength, fitness and flexibility. Those are the things that determine your bike fit and bike fit can only be determined by trial and error - an experienced eye helps tremendously.
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I also switched up my saddle so basically did everything you are not supposed to do by changing multiple variables at once. Tried to keep the saddle pretty flat with a slight forward tilt.
I think the wonky geometry of my current frame is probably part of the problem but since I'm riding more than usual and prepping for a multi-day tour in May, I'd like to get it as good as I can to continue training. Switching frames isn't really an option since I'll probably go back to more commuterish riding with risers after I'm done with the tour. Tour is going to be done on another muli-speed bike provided by the tour company. Have used one of these before without issue.
Maybe try flipping the stem for the next long ride. Curious if the switch from bullhorns to compact road drops might have actually shortened my reach too much and should have gone with a longer stem.
I think the wonky geometry of my current frame is probably part of the problem but since I'm riding more than usual and prepping for a multi-day tour in May, I'd like to get it as good as I can to continue training. Switching frames isn't really an option since I'll probably go back to more commuterish riding with risers after I'm done with the tour. Tour is going to be done on another muli-speed bike provided by the tour company. Have used one of these before without issue.
Maybe try flipping the stem for the next long ride. Curious if the switch from bullhorns to compact road drops might have actually shortened my reach too much and should have gone with a longer stem.
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Contrary to popular (lolinternet) beliefe, shoulder blade/middle back/neck pain can result from bars that are too close/high. Having your bars up higher and closer to your chest causes your shoulders to 'shrug' and tense.
I would recommend not using such a short stem, especially on a bike with such a long top tube. You should be using a 100mm stem, at minimum. A 110 or 120mm would be optimal. You're severely affecting your steering performance to the point where your steering is really 'twitchy'. Think of it like this: with such a short lever, even small inputs = large differential in steering angle. If you make the lever longer, you counter-act this.
The default position on bullhorns (in the 'drop' part of the bar) is naturally lower than the hoods on road drops. See my first point. You're probably not dropped enough.
You're right that you shouldn't have changed so many things at once. Here are my recommendations:
-Use a fit calculator (sounds like you already did) and get a bike that actually fits with a proper (100-120mm) stem.
-Since that requires a new bike, which you may not be will/able to do:
--Find your proper saddle fore/aft position (using said fit calculator). Use KOPS as a starting point. The general rule is: more forward knee-over-pedal-spindle = flat land/sprinting advantage; more rearward (kneed behind the pedal spindle) position = better for hills.
--Once you do that, fit the longest stem you can that still falls in between your fit numbers. Try dropping spacers 3-5mm at a time and see if that allows you to relax your shoulders/neck more to help with the soreness.
TL;DR fit is everything. Paying someone who knows what they are doing to help is a good idea.
I would recommend not using such a short stem, especially on a bike with such a long top tube. You should be using a 100mm stem, at minimum. A 110 or 120mm would be optimal. You're severely affecting your steering performance to the point where your steering is really 'twitchy'. Think of it like this: with such a short lever, even small inputs = large differential in steering angle. If you make the lever longer, you counter-act this.
The default position on bullhorns (in the 'drop' part of the bar) is naturally lower than the hoods on road drops. See my first point. You're probably not dropped enough.
You're right that you shouldn't have changed so many things at once. Here are my recommendations:
-Use a fit calculator (sounds like you already did) and get a bike that actually fits with a proper (100-120mm) stem.
-Since that requires a new bike, which you may not be will/able to do:
--Find your proper saddle fore/aft position (using said fit calculator). Use KOPS as a starting point. The general rule is: more forward knee-over-pedal-spindle = flat land/sprinting advantage; more rearward (kneed behind the pedal spindle) position = better for hills.
--Once you do that, fit the longest stem you can that still falls in between your fit numbers. Try dropping spacers 3-5mm at a time and see if that allows you to relax your shoulders/neck more to help with the soreness.
TL;DR fit is everything. Paying someone who knows what they are doing to help is a good idea.
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Thanks Jandro.
Will play with saddle fore/aft positioning and stem length. Think you might be right with the too close/high assessment. The road bike I had tried had a 56 top tube and a 100mm stem and it seemed to work well.
Used the Competitive Cyclist fit calculator which list the Competetive Fit, the Eddy Fit and the French Fit. Not sure what KOPS is.
Will play with saddle fore/aft positioning and stem length. Think you might be right with the too close/high assessment. The road bike I had tried had a 56 top tube and a 100mm stem and it seemed to work well.
Used the Competitive Cyclist fit calculator which list the Competetive Fit, the Eddy Fit and the French Fit. Not sure what KOPS is.
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KOPS = knee over pedal spindal. With your cranks at 3 and 9 o' clock, you find the little bone bump right below your knee cap, at the top of your shin. Using a plumb bob, draw a line vertically down from that bump. Is it in front of, or behind the pedal spindal? That's your KOPS measurement. The reason I use the little bone bump is because if you were to draw an imaginary line sight up from it, it would end up in the direct center of your knee cap, which is what you really want to measure.
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i find it perfectly normal to get this pain when upping distance and doing long hard rides.
it just tells you your using those muscles more than your used to.
the problem comes from not having a strong enough core and therefore using those muscles more to hold your upper body up. not necessarily anything wrong with your position once you get stronger... working on getting a stronger core and doing more rides like this will help.
i still get that same soreness on really long rides or long(ish) ride where i use my fixed gear that has more aggresive positioning than the bikes i typically ride long distances on.
it just tells you your using those muscles more than your used to.
the problem comes from not having a strong enough core and therefore using those muscles more to hold your upper body up. not necessarily anything wrong with your position once you get stronger... working on getting a stronger core and doing more rides like this will help.
i still get that same soreness on really long rides or long(ish) ride where i use my fixed gear that has more aggresive positioning than the bikes i typically ride long distances on.
Last edited by max-a-mill; 04-15-13 at 12:08 PM.