love.the.smell

Hi y'all! Thanks in advance for any help. I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to the fixie world of bikes but I've always wanted to build one.

So, I've got an early 70s Schwinn sports tourer, the derailers were shot and I removed them. I set it up to run as a " single speed" using a freewheel and a few cogs for the time being. With a front chainring of 54 and the correct length chain I can run a 15, 17, and 20 tooth cog on the back just by manually switching the chain and adjusting where the wheel is located in the dropouts. The chainline ain't perfect but I'm just fooling around right now. I want to make a more permanent and proper setup for touring.

What I'm really wanting to do is set this bike up with a flip flop hub with as many gear selections as possible. I would like to use the 54 chainring and two or three fixed cogs (14, 17, 20 T) on one side and the 40 T chainring with a two or three cog freewheel on the other side (not sure what size cogs yet) that would utilize cogs big enough to fit the same chain. I want a tall geared fixie side for long rides on the prairie and a lower geared freewheel side for when I'm tired or in hilly areas or just cruising around town.

Is there any way to accomplish this feat with off the shelf hubs and cogs? The local bike shop said no. Sheldon Brown has done a three speed flip flop...

Thanks!

prooftheory

No, and that is because it is stupid. Sheldon's wacky hub uses an internal shifter, so it isn't flippable. You could use a Surley dingle-cog on both sides but that would only be two gears on each side. What you are looking for is a geared bike.

seau grateau

Defeating the purpose of singlespeed FTW. You could use something like a Surly dingle on the fixed side, and there's probably a freewheel equivalent. Let me just say, though, that you are not going to find a freewheel big enough to use with that kind of gearing jump with the same length chain.

hairnet

Well, the closest options would be a Surly Dingle cog and White Industries DOS Eno freewheel. Or just get a cheap derailer since you want variable gears.

seau grateau

Also this.

love.the.smell

https://sheldonbrown.com/org//hercules.html

No, he uses a flip flop hub and three cogs (two on the freewheel and one on the fixed side)

I mean, I could use a three speed free wheel on the free side and a single cog on the fixed side. I was just curious if there is any way to have more than one cog on a fixed hub.


Aren't all bikes geared?

My basic question is this: Can you fit more than one cog on a fixed gear hub or the fixed side of a flip flop hub?

seau grateau

That question has been answered three times so far.

prooftheory

You are in the SSFG forum. "Geared-bike" refers to a multi-speed derailleur bike.


yes

love.the.smell

You guys are a great help! Thanks for all of the advice!

If I wanted a bike that I could shift on the go then I would put deraileurs back on this bike. However, I want a fixed/singlespeed bicycle that I can manually change the gears for different riding conditions. Sorry, I'm not a purist or a hipster but I do want to try something a little different with this bike.

I guess basically the answer I'm getting is to put a two or three speed freewheel on one side and a surly dingle on the other if I can get the right gearing to match my chainring.

seau grateau

Godspeed.

ThermionicScott 

You can do that, but you don't get to call it a "singlespeed" anymore.

hairnet

I do this with my mountain bike between street and dirt. It's not that exciting.

love.the.smell

Well, now that we've established that I'm gonna try to do what I want and y'all are gonna ridicule me because I'm not a purist, let's get down to the technical nitty-gritty.

I realize that what I'm interested in doing is not technically a single speed but in what other forum on here will people know what the term 'flip flop hub' means?

Is an early 70's Schwinn Sports Tourer a good fixie conversion candidate? The bike seems to be in really great shape. The cranks are 180mm, so I'm a bit worried about pedal strike.

What gear ratios are people using for Flatland fixed gear road bikes? I personally like the "gain ratio" method but you can give me gear inches or whatever and I'll try to make sense of that. I live in central IL and because there are no hills a really tall gear works great. Currently, I'm using a 54 chainring and manually switching between 15, 17, and 20 T cogs. Wind is my enemy here, so I'm trying to find a choice between a calm day gear and a windy day gear. If I pick too tall of a gear will my legs get beat up?

Besides the White Industries hub is there another good, American-made flip flop hub? Should I build a completely new wheel or can I get away with lacing the hub to my current rim (says "Rigida 27 x 1 1/4 Made in France)? What wheelset might work best on this bicycle?

Also, I know this is the SS forum, but what about a three speed freewheel - who makes a nice one?

Thanks for all of your help in advance.! When I get a better internet connection I will post some pics of the bike and work I've been doing.

love.the.smell

I like the idea of using the Surly 17/19t dingle on the fixed side and White industries 20/22 freewheel on the other side. Now I'm just contemplating what chainrings might be good to use on this bike. The 54t I'm running now is super tall but the 40t (also on bike already) is probably a little on the low side. I notice most people on this forum seem to be running chainrings with number of teeth in mid 40s.

Yes, I can work with a 5t difference using my dropouts and the same chain. I'm now thinking about going with two chainrings that differ by only a couple teeth which would allow me to more comfortably utilize all the cogs and get a bit more gear reduction. I just don't have enough experience to know which gear combination will be best suited for the kind of riding I'm wanting to do (mostly flatland touring, and some commuting).

love.the.smell

Are we going to split hairs about what constitutes a "singlespeed"? Does the bike in question have to have only one chainring and one cog? What about flip flop hubs? So a singlespeed would be one chainring and one cog or two cogs (but only one on each side of the hub)? Well, what about this dingle that Surly makes, or the Dos ENO freewheel? You could end up with a bike that has one chainring and four cogs. Is that not a singlespeed? Obviously, without derailleurs you can only use one chainring and one cog while in motion. So, effectively you have to chose a single speed for your particular ride.

Can I still call it a fixed gear bicycle even if I put a freewheel on the one side of my hub or do I have to have one cog and lockring on both sides of my fixed/fixed hub in order to call it a fixed gear? Or can I only call it a fixed gear while using the fixed cog?

Please let me know ASAP because this project can't continue until I know what kind of bike y'all are gonna let me build

hairnet

You can also use a triple crank with a 3 cog set up on a freehub. No fixed gear there but you get a wide gear range.

edit- I wonder what kind of chainline you would get if were to do the above set up with a disc hub and ISO bolt-on cog.

seau grateau

You could also put all the cogs on the same side of the hub and get some kind of mechanism that will allow you to change between them on the fly. Man, that would be so sick.

europa

Nah, some Italian bloke tried that but it didn't fly. They only use them in professional racing because the UCI tell them they have to (something about sponsorship I believe)

GENESTARWIND

https://www.shimano.com/publish/conte...6.-type-..html
Here.

ThermionicScott 

Like I said, build whatever you want and don't worry about me, but the presence (or absence) of a derailleur isn't what determines whether a bike is "multi-speed". Bikes with multiple-geared freewheels (but no rear derailleurs) were used for years in the early days of the TdF and because the riders expected to stop and manually switch gears depending on the terrain, no one in their right mind would call those "single-speed" bikes. I don't even call my fixed-gear (which has a flip-flop hub) a "single-speed", even though everyone else I know does.

love.the.smell

Y'all are right - setting up a synglespeed/fixed bike with three cogs on one (or both) side(s) of the hub is probably stupid and would be impossible with off the shelf components. Also, you're more than likely correct that I would eventually find one gear combo that I prefer and rock that for all of my rides.

I do not envision changing gears at the top and bottom of each hill - that would be extra stupid. But I do feel like I might need/want a choice depending on whether it is a calm day or a 30 mph head wind day here on the prairie.

I'm attracted to the ss/fg setup because of the simplicity and clean lines, yet I want to muck it all up by complicating things...

I'm also attracted to the dingle and Dos ENO because those kind of unusual components I find sexy.

I've never ridden or worked on a bike with disc brakes but I'm sure plenty of folks use them on fg bikes. A disc brake would not work on a flip flop wheel, correct? Unless you had a caliper on both sides? I'm not really sure...

I'm currently not running a rear brake until I figure out what wheel I'm going to build. Can my frame be adapted to use a disc brake? I'm not sure how the caliper attaches...

But just think how much street cred and hipster lovin' I would get with an eight speed fixie and no brakes

love.the.smell

I like this better.
https://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/

hairnet

This is what I am talking about



Turning a freehub wheel into a fixed/free wheel. You get one FG and at least one SS

TampaRaleigh

I usually hang out with the roadies and the C&Vers... they hate flip flops on bikes.

love.the.smell

My mommy always said I had to wear closed toed shoes when bicycling.


hairnet - thanks for clearing that up. I've never heard of the bolt on cog. Conceivably one could make a multi gear set up with those just using the correct length bolts and spacers. I like that is is bolted solid to the hub and not just threaded on. Neat-o. Surely VeloSolo has a US distributor?