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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 03-24-14, 05:32 AM   #26
IAmSam
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I can tell you from experience that current model Campy Record Pista crankset and its matching bottom bracket are asymmetrical, and while Italian threading may be same on both sides, as you can barely see in TejanoTrackie’s pic & in plain sight here, it is so well marked that you would have to be a moron to put one in backwards:



But getting back to OP's problem...you did right, one would ordinarily expect the crank and bb you picked to work well with your frame. However, when putting Record Pista cranks/bb on my mid 90s Supercorsa Pista, I found that there was just barely enough room between the chainstays and crankarms on both sides for things to work. And the stays on my bike are almost…dainty. I used to think it was great to have such tight clearance on my bike til I foolishly tried to fit a cadence counter in there.

Besides offering my small bit of experience with the same cranks and bb that you tried, I don't have much helpful advice other than maybe this is a case similar to the ones where Omnumnums wouldn't work on certain frames. And that if you don't want to consider a different crankset, then unfortunately you may have little choice other than trying a bottom bracket with a longer spindle. For instance Campag Veloce, or there is 115mm Miche, or maybe even something really vintage like Chorus/Nuovo Record?

Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing if this "mystery" gets solved - Good Luck…
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Old 03-24-14, 01:36 PM   #27
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Sadly, the BB was installed correctly. I checked and measured everything I could think of; this BB/crank combination just doesn't work with this frame because of the oversized chainstays.

It's a really weird frame. It's a 50cm Guerciotti Pista (it has all the Guerciotti lugs and the seat cluster signature) that was painted and stickered to look like a Raleigh Team USA frame. Supposedly the original owner was on the team and preferred training on his own bike to the Raleigh team issue ones, so for consistency in photos, etc., he had his frame done up to look like the others' Raleighs. I have nothing to prove any of this, nor do I particularly care if it's true, but if he was some kind of superstrong sprinter, maybe a custom frame with giant chainstays makes sense.

According to the previous owner, it previously (and successfully) had a 109mm Suntour Superbe Pro BB with matching Superbe Pro cranks. Maybe that setup worked because the SP cranks are a bit thinner at the end of the crankarms than the new Campy ones. I'm going to try it with a 115mm BB to see if that gives enough room. If that doesn't work, I may just have to give up on this one for a while.

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Old 03-24-14, 03:45 PM   #28
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I have this same frame with the large chainstays and had no problem with the same Campagnolo set up. Mine is a larger size though so that may be something. It has the same oversized chainstays. Looks like yours was imported by Ten Speed Drive in the 80s. Its got the man riding the bike on the brake bridge which only were on TSD Guerciottis. According to the catalog the tubing was Columbus PS which I believe was the same as Columbus SP but with beefier chainstays. PS apparently stands for Pista Special and was only used on track bikes. Real good find. Mine is my favorite
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/catalog...28tsd%29/5.jpg
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Old 03-24-14, 04:07 PM   #29
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... it is so well marked that you would have to be a moron to put one in backwards:



apparently you haven't met my brother-in-law. i'll have to introduce you.

he would no doubt put it on backwards and i would use your indisputable argument that it was clearly marked as to avoid such a such a thing, and he would no doubt counter with that fact that it indicates "right" and that depending upon one's perspective it could attached in two ways. i know he would.

and if i decided to explain the difference between the right and left side of bicycle, he would point out, and not without some cause, that if it were so damn clear, i wouldn't have taken me a few sentences and a half a minute to explain it.

anyway it reminds me of that ancient "All in the Family" episode where Mike and Archie are arguing over whether or not it makes more sense to put on BOTH socks (Archie's contention) and THEN both shoes, like he does, or MIKE's advocacy of putting on ONE sock and the matching shoe and THEN the other sock and then the other shoe. Mike contends, that in an emergency HE could at least hop out of a burning building on one shod foot, whereas Archie would have to run out in his stocking feet. don't know if they ever resolved it...

BTW, i've used shims on some BB's to good effect. OTOH...

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Old 03-24-14, 09:28 PM   #30
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Thanks for the information, man. With the frame I was given a set of NOS Guerciotti transfers, should I ever decide to restore the original look, and I've been thinking a lot about the color in that image.

I so wish these cranks/bb worked on my frame. Anybody want to buy an unridden Campy Record Pista bottom bracket?
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Old 03-24-14, 09:29 PM   #31
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How can you shim a bottom bracket? Like in the interface between the crank and the spindle? That sounds like a really bad idea to me.
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Old 03-24-14, 09:33 PM   #32
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Of course man. I think the history of yours is cool though. I have no idea about the history of mine, but it was virtually unridden when I bought it, though I am really glad I found a pink one.
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Thanks for the information, man. With the frame I was given a set of NOS Guerciotti transfers, should I ever decide to restore the original look, and I've been thinking a lot about the color in that image.

I so wish these cranks/bb worked on my frame. Anybody want to buy an unridden Campy Record Pista bottom bracket?
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Old 03-24-14, 09:49 PM   #33
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How can you shim a bottom bracket?
By using bottom bracket spacers (which are available in several thicknesses for this very purpose) in between the drive side edge of the shell and the BB flange.
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Old 03-24-14, 10:56 PM   #34
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By using bottom bracket spacers (which are available in several thicknesses for this very purpose) in between the drive side edge of the shell and the BB flange.
thanks, you saved me the trouble. not that it would have been a burden.

and they serve the same purpose for shimming singlespeed freewheels too, maybe even fixed cogs, but it don't think i've had reason to try shimming a fixed cog.
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Old 03-25-14, 01:04 AM   #35
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Oh okay. I thought you meant putting some kind of shim where the spindle inserts into the crank.

Since the NDS crank is the one that's hitting the chainstay, bottom bracket spacers would be of no use since they would effectively shorten the already too-short end of the spindle.
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Old 03-25-14, 10:09 AM   #36
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Another question: setting aside chainline concerns for the moment, how much clearance do I need between the cranks/chainring and the chainstays? Given their size, I don't think the chainstays are likely to flex much at all, but I'd rather be safe than sorry.
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Old 03-25-14, 10:12 AM   #37
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I had about 1.5mm between the chain stays and the tip of my Sugino 75 crank arms and never had an issue with the crank hitting the frame.
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Old 04-08-14, 10:22 AM   #38
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Well, this all worked out surprisingly well. A cheap 115mm Miche spaced slightly to the NDS is giving me about 1.5mm clearance on either side with no chainline troubles.

After I contacted the previous owner to ask about the cranks, she remembered that the bike came with a second (factory-drilled) fork that the Team USA dude had used for outdoor winter training with a brake. I had been looking for a drilled track fork to use with the frame (I have zero interest in riding brakeless), so this bottom bracket nonsense was a blessing in disguise.

I'm waiting on a new saddle, but I'll post pictures when the bike is finished. Thanks for your help, everyone.
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Old 04-08-14, 11:20 AM   #39
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Sweet! Can't wait to see it.
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Old 04-09-14, 12:31 AM   #40
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Get the Italian-threaded version of this.
how do you get away with spamming your website everywhere? even paying members are not allowed to link to their own store front.
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Old 04-09-14, 05:00 AM   #41
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how do you get away with spamming your website everywhere? even paying members are not allowed to link to their own store front.
He should link it somewhere else? How is it spam if he is answering a directly asked question?
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Old 04-14-14, 09:41 AM   #42
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He should link it somewhere else? How is it spam if he is answering a directly asked question?
Well, since he didn't actually even read the question and offered totally useless advice, it does seem like he's just looking for opportunities to plug his website. Not that I'd buy anything from there anyway when so much of it is laughably overpriced.
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Old 04-14-14, 09:49 AM   #43
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Says the guy who couldn't figure out what a BB spacer is or does until I told him.

Considering I apologized for misreading your OP and did answer a couple of your questions in this thread, I don't really see the need for you to insult me or my shop.
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Old 04-14-14, 09:56 AM   #44
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Not that I'd buy anything from there anyway when so much of it is laughably overpriced.
Really ? That's one of the stupidest and most ignorant posts I've ever read on this forum.
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Old 04-14-14, 10:49 AM   #45
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Well, since he didn't actually even read the question and offered totally useless advice, it does seem like he's just looking for opportunities to plug his website. Not that I'd buy anything from there anyway when so much of it is laughably overpriced.
Please link me to the place where you find stuff cheaper because I haven't found it.
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Old 04-14-14, 10:57 AM   #46
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While I do appreciate you guys having my back and speaking in support of the shop, that's not really what this thread is about.

At any rate, I'm glad the OP got his BB issues all sorted out.
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Old 04-14-14, 11:14 AM   #47
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While I do appreciate you guys having my back and speaking in support of the shop, that's not really what this thread is about.

At any rate, I'm glad the OP got his BB issues all sorted out.
If the OP hadn't opened his yapper and made those stupid and irrelevant remarks, we wouldn't have said anything. As soon as he did, then he derailed his own thread and deserved to get hammered. Just make sure you keep sending me little plastic toys with my orders.
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Old 04-14-14, 08:57 PM   #48
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And with that, thread closed.
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