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Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

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Old 07-06-14, 05:26 AM   #1
GENESTARWIND
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bike fitment

what is the proper type of bike fitment.
when it comes to reach, saddle adjustment or leg extention, back position, hips. ect

there seems to be conflicting information for just about everything out there now.
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Old 07-06-14, 06:08 AM   #2
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None of us here are experts. I want my body to be relaxed and comfortable while on the bike so I can go for hours and hours and hours. Do whatever is necessary to achieve that end.
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Old 07-06-14, 07:49 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by GENESTARWIND View Post
what is the proper type of bike fitment.
when it comes to reach, saddle adjustment or leg extention, back position, hips. ect

there seems to be conflicting information for just about everything out there now.
Is thou pithed young sir?
'Tis a subject of much debate and even more bull****.

For starters, most of what you read on the internet is rubbish. Knee over the pedal spindle was discredited last century for starters yet so-called 'professional' fitters still loudly proclaim it as gospel (yes, some idiot will link to a video extolling this practice).

Steve Hogg and quite a few other fitters aim for a 'balanced' position on the bike. Basically, once you have the saddle at the right height, you should be able to remove your hands from the bars (while pedaling) without undue strain. It's the 'without undue strain' bit that causes the discussion.

Essentially though, you don't want too much weight on your hands and too much stress in your core. Why? Because such strain on muscles is both tiring and directs muscular effort away from what it should be doing, producing power.

Saddle height. It's more or less accepted that you want a small bend in your knee when pedaling, particularly when pedaling up a hill (the best place to check it). That should be easy but if you're like me and have a asymmetric pedaling action, one knee will have more of a bend than the other so you make sure BOTH have a bend. Mind you, look at the professionals racers and they all have a lot more bend in the knee now than they did ten years ago. I asked an ex-pro I know about this and his comment was "fashions vary".

There's been a lot of talk over the years about how you should pedal - just let your feet do what they do, once you get the saddle height right, your feet and ankles will be fine. Nearly everyone is asymmetric anyway, some of us more so than others.

Saddle set back will vary depending on bar height, reach and your own core strength, fitness and flexibility. There's a reason us old pharts like bars higher than younguns. Essentially, decide on where you want the bars as far as height goes, set the saddle fore and aft for a position that doesn't put too much weight on your hands but keeps enough weight on the bars to control the steering. Yes, this is a personal setting. This is, of course, affected by how far you have to reach for the bars but basically, if you feel you're reaching too far for the bars, get a shorter neck (and vice versa).

Make a good guess at where you want your bike set up, arm yourself with all the spanners and allen keys needed, then go for a ride. Don't touch anything for the first half hour because you need your body properly warmed up and if you imagine it will be in less than that, bike fit doesn't matter for you. Then just start fiddling. One thing at a time. What feels wrong? Make a change to suit, one change at a time followed by a some time riding to check the result. Reach can only be adjusted by changing the neck, not by saddle position but just about everything else is fair game. Don't ignore the tilt of the saddle (particularly if it's a Brooks or similar) because if you're sliding forwards, you'll feel as though you've got too much weight on your hands.

Once you've spent a few rides dialing in your fit, it'll change as you get fitter, stronger and as you get used to the bike. It also works the other way as you eat and drink too well, get older and do less riding.

If you've measured anything, used any tool such as a plumb bob and/or used any formula to get your fit, it's wrong. It might be horribly wrong or it might be very close, that depends on your body. Good bike fit can only be achieved by you, on the bike, on the road, with experimentation. The trick is to learn to read your body and what it's telling you. If it's uncomfortable, you need to make a change (a bit like tight undies). But isn't that part of the charm of cycling? And, unless you're a long way out and trying to do something extreme, it's not that critical.

For what it's worth, both my son and I were professionally fitted by the top bike fitter and racing coach here in Adelaide some years ago. The result was pretty good for my hyper fit, super strong, teenage son. It was an appalling disaster for me (the bastard even sold me the wrong sized bike) and it took me two years to sort it out. Not a single thing from that set up, including the bike, survived. Why? Because the idiot assumed I was fit, flexible and strong and wanted to ride in a full on racing position. Bike fit is personal and can not come from a formula and it's not surprising that some of the best bike fits come from people who haven't bothered to over think it, just fiddling with things as they see fit. There's nothing wrong with getting a professional bike fit, provided you regard it as no more than a starting point for your own personal journey.

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Old 07-06-14, 07:51 AM   #4
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I want my body to be relaxed and comfortable while on the bike
That also provides the most power as well as the longest endurance. It summarises good bike fit perfectly whether you're just going to the shops or racing in the Tour de France.
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Old 07-06-14, 11:11 AM   #5
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How about fit in SSFG vs geared road bike?
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Old 07-06-14, 12:12 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by GENESTARWIND View Post
what is the proper type of bike fitment.
when it comes to reach, saddle adjustment or leg extention, back position, hips. ect
there seems to be conflicting information for just about everything out there now.
Here is a very complete fitment guide Bike Fit Calculator | Find Your Bike Size | Competitive Cyclist
It provides 3 fit options and will allow you to save your measurements for future reference


Competitive Cyclist Fit Calculator Measurements - Inseam - YouTube

Last edited by FlatSix911; 07-07-14 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 07-06-14, 05:19 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by europa View Post
Is thou pithed young sir?
'Tis a subject of much debate and even more bull****.

For starters, most of what you read on the internet is rubbish. Knee over the pedal spindle was discredited last century for starters yet so-called 'professional' fitters still loudly proclaim it as gospel (yes, some idiot will link to a video extolling this practice).

Steve Hogg and quite a few other fitters aim for a 'balanced' position on the bike. Basically, once you have the saddle at the right height, you should be able to remove your hands from the bars (while pedaling) without undue strain. It's the 'without undue strain' bit that causes the discussion.

Essentially though, you don't want too much weight on your hands and too much stress in your core. Why? Because such strain on muscles is both tiring and directs muscular effort away from what it should be doing, producing power.

Saddle height. It's more or less accepted that you want a small bend in your knee when pedaling, particularly when pedaling up a hill (the best place to check it). That should be easy but if you're like me and have a asymmetric pedaling action, one knee will have more of a bend than the other so you make sure BOTH have a bend. Mind you, look at the professionals racers and they all have a lot more bend in the knee now than they did ten years ago. I asked an ex-pro I know about this and his comment was "fashions vary".

There's been a lot of talk over the years about how you should pedal - just let your feet do what they do, once you get the saddle height right, your feet and ankles will be fine. Nearly everyone is asymmetric anyway, some of us more so than others.

Saddle set back will vary depending on bar height, reach and your own core strength, fitness and flexibility. There's a reason us old pharts like bars higher than younguns. Essentially, decide on where you want the bars as far as height goes, set the saddle fore and aft for a position that doesn't put too much weight on your hands but keeps enough weight on the bars to control the steering. Yes, this is a personal setting. This is, of course, affected by how far you have to reach for the bars but basically, if you feel you're reaching too far for the bars, get a shorter neck (and vice versa).

Make a good guess at where you want your bike set up, arm yourself with all the spanners and allen keys needed, then go for a ride. Don't touch anything for the first half hour because you need your body properly warmed up and if you imagine it will be in less than that, bike fit doesn't matter for you. Then just start fiddling. One thing at a time. What feels wrong? Make a change to suit, one change at a time followed by a some time riding to check the result. Reach can only be adjusted by changing the neck, not by saddle position but just about everything else is fair game. Don't ignore the tilt of the saddle (particularly if it's a Brooks or similar) because if you're sliding forwards, you'll feel as though you've got too much weight on your hands.

Once you've spent a few rides dialing in your fit, it'll change as you get fitter, stronger and as you get used to the bike. It also works the other way as you eat and drink too well, get older and do less riding.

If you've measured anything, used any tool such as a plumb bob and/or used any formula to get your fit, it's wrong. It might be horribly wrong or it might be very close, that depends on your body. Good bike fit can only be achieved by you, on the bike, on the road, with experimentation. The trick is to learn to read your body and what it's telling you. If it's uncomfortable, you need to make a change (a bit like tight undies). But isn't that part of the charm of cycling? And, unless you're a long way out and trying to do something extreme, it's not that critical.

For what it's worth, both my son and I were professionally fitted by the top bike fitter and racing coach here in Adelaide some years ago. The result was pretty good for my hyper fit, super strong, teenage son. It was an appalling disaster for me (the bastard even sold me the wrong sized bike) and it took me two years to sort it out. Not a single thing from that set up, including the bike, survived. Why? Because the idiot assumed I was fit, flexible and strong and wanted to ride in a full on racing position. Bike fit is personal and can not come from a formula and it's not surprising that some of the best bike fits come from people who haven't bothered to over think it, just fiddling with things as they see fit. There's nothing wrong with getting a professional bike fit, provided you regard it as no more than a starting point for your own personal journey.

[\heresy]
Europa, I know we don't talk often, but I just want to say you are my new best friend.
I'm going to ask my wife to do up this post as a needle point sampler so I may gaze upon it fondly
and bask in its wisdom.
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Old 07-06-14, 05:28 PM   #8
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Just go with what feels right. Everyone is different I don't pay much attention to fitment guides..
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Old 07-06-14, 09:03 PM   #9
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i wish like, my uncle was a professional bike fitter. if i had more cash flow i'd probably have already tried so many sizes of things. right now i dont like how my bike fits but its all i have at the moment.

i just want my fit to look like the tdf dudes, thatd be tight.

i wanna have a frame with the proper top tube length and i dont want the top tube to be inside of my nuts when i'm chilling straddling the bike. i dont want my seatpost to be sticking out a mile high. i want a long stem, like 120 or 130. who knows what i actually need, i'll have to try out a few sizes of old used ones. a quill stem, so that at its minimum insertion point, the tops of my bars are only 4-5cm below the top of my saddle, for comfort. but for racing i can slam it, or throw a 65 degree on, or whatever.

i still cant quite figure out if i like 165's or not, i have a set of 170s too. or if i should go to extra large clips instead of larges, or saddle height or fore/aft positioning, or seat tube angle in relation to this, all that stuff. i really need to shell out for some racing shoes with cleats and clipless pedals too.

all these different bike fitting techniques confuse me sometimes. i'm 5'8" with a 32" cycling inseam, and if i had a blank check right now, i'd buy a 54.5 c-t st x 54.5 c-c tt frame, 120 stem, 40cm bars, 165 cranks, and fancy clipless shoes and pedals and i'd probably still be tweaking sizes on things for a while. the hardest thing to pick is the frame since its the most expensive. ive heard its better to go with the slightly smaller frame if youre inbetween, so you dont end up with a too big frame that you dont want to use anymore.

ive straight up used pictures of my bike on MS paint and chopped and screwed them to have like, mockups of my saddle/bar height if it were on a different size frame, hahah. and added other stems and stuff from the internet. its crazy.

i eventually wanna do that competitive cyclits fit calculator and see if its anywhere close to what i think i need



just my spouting off garbage, bro out

Last edited by bro; 07-06-14 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 07-07-14, 08:01 PM   #10
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forget internet fittings and calculators. get a pro fitting done at your local LBS that supports racers. its 100% worth it.

it will make you faster and stronger. you will have less fatigue after long rides and the possibility of serious long term chronic injury is eliminated. i had a sciatic issue for a year and discovered it was caused by poor bike fit. when i say poor i dont mean my bike was set up ridiculously, i mean there were several small adjustments not exceeding millimeters that needed to be made. all that can make the difference and someone trained to fit you can see the problems that you cannot feel.
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Old 07-08-14, 03:35 AM   #11
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there are a couple places here in vegas that do bike fitments but they are around 300 dollars a pop.
http://lasvegasbikefit.com/?page_id=2
http://xcellperformancegroup.com/bike-fitting.html
http://orthosportlasvegas.com/servic...-bike-fitting/

http://www.procyclery.com/ does as well and ive bought stuff from them and have had them install things as well like headset and bb. they are really cool and dont irritate you either. they have amazing reviews on yelp as well. I just dont know where i should go.

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Old 07-08-14, 04:43 AM   #12
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i always thought if i went to assenmachers theyd either a. not do it or b. itd be like 200 bucks

http://www.assenmachers.com/
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Old 07-08-14, 11:40 AM   #13
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ive straight up used pictures of my bike on MS paint and chopped and screwed them to have like, mockups of my saddle/bar height if it were on a different size frame, hahah. and added other stems and stuff from the internet. its crazy.
Bro, dude, go here for full customization. Bike CAD. You can design and tweak everything.


It's free, easy, and fun. You can spend hours creating dream bikes.

www.bikecad.ca | Bicycle Design Software


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Old 07-08-14, 11:40 AM   #14
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there are a couple places here in vegas that do bike fitments but they are around 300 dollars a pop.
Las Vegas Bike Fit | Rider Positioning
Bike Fitting or Re-Fit for Road Cycles and Tri Bikes for Women and Men by Jackie Arcana
Bike Fitting by OrthoSport Physical Therapy in Las Vegas, Nevada

Las Vegas Bike Shop - Pro Cyclery does as well and ive bought stuff from them and have had them install things as well like headset and bb. they are really cool and dont irritate you either. they have amazing reviews on yelp as well. I just dont know where i should go.
How long do you normally ride? If you only go out for a couple hours then you can probably figure it out yourself. If you want to start doing centuries having someone look you over is a good idea. The fit will be $XXX and then you add on the cost of a new stem, maybe a new saddle, maybe your bike is all wrong
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Old 07-08-14, 12:01 PM   #15
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How about fit in SSFG vs geared road bike?
There is no difference in road bike fit regardless of drivetrain.
Back when clubriders would remove derailleurs and fit FG & mudguards for winter training on the same bike, no adjustment was made to position.

Get with a local coach or fitter in your area and/or do the calcs in the various on-line fitting guides to get yourself dialed in to a "baseline" fit that can be tweaked as seat time accumulates and adaptation occurs.

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Old 07-08-14, 02:03 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Bandera View Post
There is no difference in road bike fit regardless of drivetrain.
Back when clubriders would remove derailleurs and fit FG & mudguards for winter training on the same bike, no adjustment was made to position.

Get with a local coach or fitter in your area and/or do the calcs in the various on-line fitting guides to get yourself dialed in to a "baseline" fit that can be tweaked as seat time accumulates and adaptation occurs.

-Bandera
I did not think there was. Thanks for the reply.

I have my contact points pretty dialed in and understand frame geo pretty well, Well at least on these type of frames.

A fitter at this point is pretty silly, as I have been fitted by some of the best fitters and bike designers in this country!

Just needed someone to tell me what I all ready knew.
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Old 07-11-14, 11:41 PM   #17
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That is a beautiful frame


Quote:
Originally Posted by jr59 View Post



I did not think there was. Thanks for the reply.
I have my contact points pretty dialed in and understand frame geo pretty well, Well at least on these type of frames.
A fitter at this point is pretty silly, as I have been fitted by some of the best fitters and bike designers in this country!
Just needed someone to tell me what I all ready knew.
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