jvse

Hey guys, I've been lurking these forums for a long while now, but never had the need to post anything as most of my questions were answered through the search function.

Anyway, a little bit about me: I started biking in highschool back in '09 [I'll admit, I bought into the culture]. Started off with this beater mountain bike and eventually saved up for my first bike which was an evergreen 2009 Masi Speciale Fixed, which I still ride to this day. Started off mashing 47/15 which resulted in some monster quads, but I learned and liked to spin at 47/19.

During the spring of 2013, I ended up buying my first road bike, a CAAD9 with an ultegra groupset. What surprised me the most was how light the bike was relative to my Masi- none of my peers had aluminum frames, so I never knew how light they could actually be. [I did visit my LBSs for small accessories, but don't demo their bikes as I have no intention of buying their road bikes new] Another thing that caught me off guard was how plush the ride was. I'm sure the carbon fork helped, but ride difference between my caad and masi was like night and day.

Fast forward to now- I've caught the bike bug and want a new bike, namely, a custom built fixed gear which would be my equivalent of a sports car. With a little over two years worth of structured training on fixed gear and road bikes, I've learned what I like about both of my bikes. I want the control and aggressive geometry I have with my fixed gear combined with the lightness that the aluminum frame/carbon fork provides.

tl;dr: I want to plan out a custom fixed gear build, help me allocate my resources [about 1000-1100 dollars] for the best/lightest bike possible.

Of course, I've done some of my own research and scoped out the options within my price range.
Some frame possibilities include:
Leader 725 [~275]
Dolan Precursa [~325]
Affinity Low Pro [~500]
Engine 11 Sprinter [~700] (As much as I love how the Engine11 looks, I'm sure the grams saved to price ratio makes it simply not a viable option with my budget, but I figured I would add that in.)

The next most important item that I really have no clue about are wheelsets- I know weight off of the wheels means a lot more than weight off the frame, so I'd like to invest a solid amount in these. However, I'm not sure whether I should get a premade one or a custom built one. If I choose one of the cheaper frame options, I would have a lot of wiggle room for the wheelset, so suggestions would be appreciated.

Lastly, being on a budget, I'm wondering what components I should prioritize when planning this build out. I already have a nice broken in fizik saddle, so there's one less thing to worry about, but what about cranksets, handlebars, stem, etc.

Thanks in advanced!

jhess74

If weight's a key factor in your wheel decision, check out Wabi's wheelset - light as hell and not to pricey. Around $225, I believe. You may even want to consider one of their complete bikes. They're good quality, tastefully done, and light.

TMonk

its an ultegra GROUP. only campagnolo makes gruppos.

jvse

Just checked their wheels out- wow are they light! I was browsing around earlier this week and saw some really cool Rolf Prima wheelsets that weigh just about the same to my surprise. With such a great price for such a light bike, I have to ask- how durable are these? I'm aware of the price, weight, and durability triangle, so I can't help but question Wabi's durability despite some of the good words I've heard.
@TMonk, noted!

jhess74

I don't have experience with the Wabi wheels myself, just recommended them on the basis of the good things I've heard here - I've found that consensus opinions here are generally reliable. Perhaps an owner of a Wabi wheel set will chime in now...

TejanoTrackie 

Chiming in - I have Wabi wheels and can certify without reservation or equivocation that they are great.

jvse

Great! Looks like I'm getting a set of wabis.
What do you guys think about headsets, stems, and seatposts in terms of cost to functionality/weight? Is it worth it to dish out that extra 80 dollars for a thomson elite which only weighs about 50 grams less than an aluminium nashbar seatpost?

GhostSS

I swear this sub forum is like and Jekyll and Hyde. Just a day ago someone started a similar thread and everyone tore him to shreds. Good luck with your build, you caught the fgss forum on a friendly day.

With some of those frames you're going to hit your budget ceiling early. For track specific cranks, SRAM Omnium cranks are on the low end of the "nice" crank price range and they start at ~$200. Sugino Zen chainrings are light and stiff but they are about $90-100. On the other end of the scale you have Shimano's Dura Ace 7710 and Campy's Pista track cranksets and they can run up to $400 BB's not included.

IMO stems, headsets, and seatposts just need to work, they're all functionally them same. Price goes up exponentially as they get lighter/point of origin to Europe get closer.

There's tons of great bars, stems, cranks, etc. out there, it's just a matter of taste. Personally I went all Italian Campy/Cinelli/Selle San Marco. Careful though, just like car modifying, golf, and binge drinking it can accidentally turn into an expensive habit.

Are you going for a "good" bike build or "impressive" bike build?

stryper

None of them are worth splurging on. Most $30-40 stems are +/- 20g of each others. I usually find one I like looks wise and ebay a used one.
Seatposts are a super simple component, just don't buy bottom of the barrel. Look in the clearance section of bike online stores. The difference between a $30 post and a $90 post is 30g.
Both stems and seatposts, decide on the right size and angle before anything else. Fit trumps grams or looks.

TejanoTrackie 

Also, don't buy anything from a discount house like Trashbar. You may get something that's cheap but garbage. Instead, go to a good online store like Retrogression, where you can get good basic components for cheap prices. RG won't sell you any crap parts, and may actually save you money over the discount stores. For example, you can buy a very decent Dimension stem for only $22 and a two bolt Deda RSX-01 seatpost for only $38 at RG.

Bakersb

Are you buying all parts new? If so, $1000 is actually not that much.

jvse

I'm planning on buying frame, wheelset, crankset and other stressed components new. As for the stems, handlebars, seatpost, etc, I'll spend some time scouring Craigslist or Ebay for some good deals instead of buying from nashbar. Considering all that you guys have said, I think I'll write down a list of alternatives for each component and look for them on eBay. That way, I wouldn't have to settle for shoddy quality while still hopefully maintaining my budget.

As of right now, this is what I have on paper- some of the estimations are rough, ie, my clipless pedals, innertubes, etc, but for the most part I'd like to say that they're accurate enough.
300g Sugino BB 30
700g Sugino Messenger 46t crankset [subject to change] 70
200g Seatpost [used] ~35
140g Stem [used] ~35
730g Michelin Krylion Carbon Tires 70
1725g Wabi Wheelset 225
265g Nitto Bullhorns 35
Things I have:
230g Fizik Saddle
250g Clipons
200g InnerTubes
40g Track Cog/ Lockring
300g KMC Chain

All this comes out to about 500 right now, weighing in at around 11.25lbs. Everything's pretty flexible right now, but I like to put things on paper to know how much I need to save. Are there any other parts you guys suggest me buy used instead of new?
I also noticed that I do have a little bit of wiggle room for frames within the 400 to possibly 600 range, if I really save. In that event I do end up buying a frame within that range, do you guys have any other recommendations that are similar to the frames I mentioned earlier?
If all goes accordingly to plan, I may have a 15-16 pound bike which I'd be perfectly okay with!

Jared.

A new Pre Cursa frameset comes with frame, fork, headset, and seatpost, for what it's worth.

prooftheory

+1 the leader is the only frame that gets you a bike in your budget. The going advise for building a bike is to take whatever you think you are going to spend and double it.

GhostSS

I've never ridden a pursuit frame, so I may be wrong on this, but the Affinity Low Pro might be the least comfortable frame between your selection.

I would say the Wabi Lightning SE, but it's slightly over your budget at $775 if bought directly from Wabi.....
Engine 11 certainly is a looker. I'm only partial to the Leader 725 because I own one. Dolan seems pretty good too. Use the extra cash on bar tape or a set of brakes and levers or slightly better components or whatever

Bakersb

I would actually stray away from sugino messengers. They're okay, but I would cough a bit more to get a really nice used crankset. Look around on craigslist or ebay for some sugino 75's (they go for as low as $150 range!), omniums, miche, or maybe even a campy record pista crankset.
njs Sugino 75 crankset and bb If you live in the east bay

I don't know much about Wabi wheels, but you could probably snag some mavic open pros on craigslist for $150. Remember to true them at your lbs. Same with velocity deep v's, or some new H+son's off velomine

I really like leader frames, and they fit your price boundaries perfectly. I don't know if you want to go back to steel, but I really love the 722 heritage lo. If not, a 721 will suffice. I'm big not a fan of 725 or 35's.

Sorry about the 'ranting' format, I hope I helped a bit.

jvse

I'll look into a better crankset- it makes sense that I should spend a bit more on that seeing as it experiences quite a bit of stress. I was planning to buy my crankset new as it's a heavily worn component, but what are your thoughts on used cranksets?

As for the wheelset, I do have a set of deep Vs and used to have mavic pros; both of them are unfortunately heavier than the wabis. If I recall correctly, my deep v wheelset was around 2100g and my mavic pros were a little under 2000g. I think the grams saved using Wabis to cost ratio for the wheelset is fairly good, and even more so considering that rotational weight is more noticeable.

I already have a nice traditional looking fixed frame [https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1SmlJr0BbW...amples+005.jpg], so I'm looking for something a little more modern/aero. I know the thicker tubing from the aero frames seem counterintuitive to my weight weenie goals, but I'm willing to sacrifice some of that for some glitz .

I'm also curious to as why you prefer to 721s over the 725/735. From an aesthetic point of view, I'm not to keen on the rough welds on the 721s, which was why I'm considering the 725 instead.

With welds in mind, I've decided to cross the Engine 11 off my list- while the paintjob looks amazing, the sloppy welds just aren't doing it for me, especially at that price point.

Huffandstuff

+1.

I'd take a Dolan anyday over a leader, also are the bargain leaders coming as a frameset now or just a frame?

bushwickbrandon

you can totally pick one up with a fork for not much more.

i also like state bike co, if you like the leader frame style, although my 721 hasn't caused any problems and it's pretty light.

also plus one on the messengers. i wish i had save a little more and thought about it further before i got them. they're nice and all, but you may find that after some time you'll have wanted something really dope, like dura ace or 75's or something.

also can't agree more with the cost just pummeling you out of nowhere. i would keep it simple at first, if your budget is 1k, and then go from there. pick one part like the wheels to make really solid and change out everything else over time. you seem to have a good list so far to start with.

Bakersb

the 721 has better aluminum and is lighter, all for a cheaper price with a more appropriate geometry for street riding.
Overall, i'd go with the precursa or 721. both are solid and affordable choices.

EDIT: Regarding messengers, they're not terrible and will probably suffice for everyday riding. However, I've heard they're prone to stripping (however, my peers can be unreliable resources so this may or may not be true) and are very heavy.

The issue of longevity is not the issue for used cranks. Cranks can often outlive a frameset. You can probably buy a 10+ year old campy record pista crankset and have it ride amazing. The quality difference then comes in the stiffness, weight, and more resilient to problems such as stripping. But you could probably ride messengers your whole life and never know a difference, but finding that little quality difference is the satisfying part of owning high-end cranks.

bmontgomery87

It's always been my understanding that the 721 and 725 are the same bike except for the seat tube and the smooth welds......

GhostSS

sames here.....

ketsana

I got 28/32 kinlins + formula rear hub + bikehubstore 79g front hub weighing in at 1500-1600g. Paid around 360$.
When I was ordering, wabi didn't have stock.

This brings my Fuji track classic down to 18lbs flat with stock everything except I removed the rear brake added shimano spd pedals and a carbon fork.

Wspsux

Is that leader price without the fork?

Jared.

Yup.