Vertical dropout converter
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,247
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
16 Posts
Vertical dropout converter
Here's a pic of my vertical dropout converter that I built and have been using for a week or so now. It cost around $15 and is far cheaper than trying to find a horizontal/track end frame to use.
It would have taken a lot less time to build if I would have been using something other than a hacksaw...definitely not the tool for the job.
I made it out of 1.25" galvy angle iron and use two 3/8" bolts to mount it right into the vertical dropout. I made sure to include two backups to avoid having the whole thing want to tilt forward on me when I pedal. So far it has worked flawlessly even after hitting some decent holes in the pavement that about wanted to send me crashing as a result of not continuing to pedal like I should have. Something about hitting bumps/holes always makes me want to stop pedaling. I got to break that bad habit and pedal on through. Granted in the same area right now I'm just trying my best to take the whole lane and avoid the obstacles since I ride through that area everyday/sometimes multiple times a day.
It would have taken a lot less time to build if I would have been using something other than a hacksaw...definitely not the tool for the job.
I made it out of 1.25" galvy angle iron and use two 3/8" bolts to mount it right into the vertical dropout. I made sure to include two backups to avoid having the whole thing want to tilt forward on me when I pedal. So far it has worked flawlessly even after hitting some decent holes in the pavement that about wanted to send me crashing as a result of not continuing to pedal like I should have. Something about hitting bumps/holes always makes me want to stop pedaling. I got to break that bad habit and pedal on through. Granted in the same area right now I'm just trying my best to take the whole lane and avoid the obstacles since I ride through that area everyday/sometimes multiple times a day.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: CLE-OH
Posts: 1,337
Bikes: '84 Basso Pista, Masi Heinz '57 SS beater. Couple Stingrays...
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
Dude. Please don't ride that thing, like in real life. I mean unless you are my worst enemy....
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,610
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 399 Post(s)
Liked 273 Times
in
136 Posts
I realize many of us like to express our creativity and work on do-it-yourself projects - but sometimes a little reserch can save a lot of time and expense
Yeah, its far from perfect - but it is a lot less goofy than your...uhhh...device, and available on fleabay for as low as $10
Yeah, its far from perfect - but it is a lot less goofy than your...uhhh...device, and available on fleabay for as low as $10
#7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,247
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
16 Posts
Two thoughts about that... contraption?
First, it doesn't look like it would hold up long, and it won't be pretty when it fails. Second, maybe it's the weird fish eye effect of that pic, but looking at where the axle is bolted to your homemade track end vs. in the original drop out, something doesn't add up. It looks like the wheel wouldn't fit in the vertical dropout without going past the seat tube.
Concern for your safety and joking aside tho, kudos on the ingenuity/effort displayed.
First, it doesn't look like it would hold up long, and it won't be pretty when it fails. Second, maybe it's the weird fish eye effect of that pic, but looking at where the axle is bolted to your homemade track end vs. in the original drop out, something doesn't add up. It looks like the wheel wouldn't fit in the vertical dropout without going past the seat tube.
Concern for your safety and joking aside tho, kudos on the ingenuity/effort displayed.
If your mounting behind the original dropout you couldn't have the wheel going past the seat tube unless it did that on the original bike to begin with...think about it. The wheel mounts behind where the original dropout is located.
One of the benefits that I also gain from the converter is expanded wheelbase. I went out a couple of weeks ago to try and make up a homemade studded tire to play with as I actually had conditions where it would have been possible to use them and experiment around with them. The trouble was I didn't have frame clearance as the dropouts are just too darn forward on this bike. With the converter I now have the wheel sitting further back which makes that a possible option for the future.
Another side benefit is with this being a regular road bike, racing style, not touring style, the bike doesn't come with any braze-ons. With this I have several possible screws I can mount to right on the dropout to hook up a much more beefier rack than I what I current have on the bike, heck I could probably even be able to switch over to panniers instead of the backpack I've used on the bike trip each of the past three years now...not sure if I would even want to though.
Looking at photo that IAmSam posted it looks like it has two problems with it. One being the fact it doesn't have the brake in place to keep the whole things from being able to rotate forward on you and then as I said above I would still be stuck without any braze-ons on the bike.
In the initial, ridden, build out of plywood(pushed for time and had to get something rideable) I had forgotten to put the screws in to keep the whole thing from rotating on me and I only made it about two pedal strokes before it rotated on me and left me walking back in the house to put the screws in like I knew to do from the beginning. Hence why I have the piece that goes up the chain stay...to act as the brake in case the screw between the chain/seat stay fails.
I doubt there is much difference between what I've built and the product IAmSam shows other than the look of it. My device pretty much keeps the same BB/dropout height difference which can effect how the bike handles. The picture IAmSam shows would change the BB/dropout height difference and would change the overall handling of the bike...at least from what I heard on an interview I was listening to recently.
Plus at the time in question when I made this I had one simple problem. The chain tensioner had crapped out on me, totally gone. I had to do something and no bike shop was going to be open for a couple of days and as I was riding home, 13 miles without the chain tensioner(yeah, riding singlespeed at the time) I came up with the idea for this. I knew I had to find a way somehow to control the fore/aft of the wheel to keep the tension on the chain and this idea popped out quite quickly at me. With limited internet access and at the time limited bike shop availability I had to do things on my own. Sometimes you have to learn to be creative whether you like it or not.
#8
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,247
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
16 Posts
Two thoughts about that... contraption?
First, it doesn't look like it would hold up long, and it won't be pretty when it fails. Second, maybe it's the weird fish eye effect of that pic, but looking at where the axle is bolted to your homemade track end vs. in the original drop out, something doesn't add up. It looks like the wheel wouldn't fit in the vertical dropout without going past the seat tube.
Concern for your safety and joking aside tho, kudos on the ingenuity/effort displayed.
First, it doesn't look like it would hold up long, and it won't be pretty when it fails. Second, maybe it's the weird fish eye effect of that pic, but looking at where the axle is bolted to your homemade track end vs. in the original drop out, something doesn't add up. It looks like the wheel wouldn't fit in the vertical dropout without going past the seat tube.
Concern for your safety and joking aside tho, kudos on the ingenuity/effort displayed.
The middle bolt is where the unit mounts to the vertical dropout on the bike and then the rear bolt is where you mount the axle.
I only have Gopro camera so I have to live with the fisheye lense or do a lot of extra work with any photos/videos I take...not many of them typically.
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,247
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
16 Posts
Nothing in life is safe. You could flip your car upside down and kill yourself as you drive home from work/shopping. Cars/SUVs aren't safe. Do people still drive. Nothing has ever been accomplished without someone taking a risk. You would be living in Richmond, IN if Columbus had sailed the ocean blue. you would still be overseas somewhere.
Off the smartassness. I do realize changing anything is a risk that it might break but I'm willing to take that risk. I know I don't have the money or the space to buy a new bike, nowhere to put it. I also realize that any new bike doesn't meet my requirements so why spend the money on something that doesn't give me what I want. Instead I just try to get closer and closer to what I want with what I have right now by manipulating it in a way that I feel comfortable with the risk involved in how I'm doing the manipulating. The reason I haven't built the bike above is I haven't figured out a way of doing it that I feel comfortable with the idea of riding it. I haven't stumbled into certain things out there that jumps out at me and screams...this is the way to do it. Everything probably exists but I just don't know about it yet/don't have easy access to it without spending a ton of money that I don't have to start with. As a result the idea of the bike is still on paper only and not on the road.
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 122
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
No company builds what I'm looking for, so I have no other option than to build it myself. Yes, it would be a track end frame made out of wood. Could I ride it...yeah, should I...of course not it doesn't help support corporate America so of course I shouldn't ride it. It would be highly experimental. Totally adjustable frame, everything can be adjusted, in most cases you could adjust it while riding down the road...that way you can change the way bike handles to make it handle the way you want it to handle at the time in question. Should I ride something like that...no. If I just have to figure out how to accomplish everything I want to accomplish and yea I would build it and ride it.
I ride all the time with a homemade rear rack and coroplast front fenders. Sure they could hang up on me and cause me trouble, and they have. Does it stop me from riding with them, no.
#13
Your cog is slipping.
I agree. Just because you can ride a bike on the road doesn't mean you should...you might get hit by a car or might have deer run into the side of you(someone I know had that happen to him last fall), etc. Everybody has there own risk tolerance level. Actually mine is probably bigger than most. I have actually been looking for the part two years at building my own bike frame. No company builds what I'm looking for, so I have no other option than to build it myself. Yes, it would be a track end frame made out of wood. Could I ride it...yeah, should I...of course not it doesn't help support corporate America so of course I shouldn't ride it. It would be highly experimental. Totally adjustable frame, everything can be adjusted, in most cases you could adjust it while riding down the road...that way you can change the way bike handles to make it handle the way you want it to handle at the time in question. Should I ride something like that...no. If I just have to figure out how to accomplish everything I want to accomplish and yea I would build it and ride it. I ride all the time with a homemade rear rack and coroplast front fenders. Sure they could hang up on me and cause me trouble, and they have. Does it stop me from riding with them, no.
Nothing in life is safe. You could flip your car upside down and kill yourself as you drive home from work/shopping. Cars/SUVs aren't safe. Do people still drive. Nothing has ever been accomplished without someone taking a risk. You would be living in Richmond, IN if Columbus had sailed the ocean blue. you would still be overseas somewhere.
Off the smartassness. I do realize changing anything is a risk that it might break but I'm willing to take that risk. I know I don't have the money or the space to buy a new bike, nowhere to put it. I also realize that any new bike doesn't meet my requirements so why spend the money on something that doesn't give me what I want. Instead I just try to get closer and closer to what I want with what I have right now by manipulating it in a way that I feel comfortable with the risk involved in how I'm doing the manipulating. The reason I haven't built the bike above is I haven't figured out a way of doing it that I feel comfortable with the idea of riding it. I haven't stumbled into certain things out there that jumps out at me and screams...this is the way to do it. Everything probably exists but I just don't know about it yet/don't have easy access to it without spending a ton of money that I don't have to start with. As a result the idea of the bike is still on paper only and not on the road.
Nothing in life is safe. You could flip your car upside down and kill yourself as you drive home from work/shopping. Cars/SUVs aren't safe. Do people still drive. Nothing has ever been accomplished without someone taking a risk. You would be living in Richmond, IN if Columbus had sailed the ocean blue. you would still be overseas somewhere.
Off the smartassness. I do realize changing anything is a risk that it might break but I'm willing to take that risk. I know I don't have the money or the space to buy a new bike, nowhere to put it. I also realize that any new bike doesn't meet my requirements so why spend the money on something that doesn't give me what I want. Instead I just try to get closer and closer to what I want with what I have right now by manipulating it in a way that I feel comfortable with the risk involved in how I'm doing the manipulating. The reason I haven't built the bike above is I haven't figured out a way of doing it that I feel comfortable with the idea of riding it. I haven't stumbled into certain things out there that jumps out at me and screams...this is the way to do it. Everything probably exists but I just don't know about it yet/don't have easy access to it without spending a ton of money that I don't have to start with. As a result the idea of the bike is still on paper only and not on the road.
#14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,247
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
16 Posts
Here's the question then...what is the difference between a 1/8" angle iron that has side to side support and greater thickness holding up the drivetrain and the flimsy derailleur hangers they put on multispeed bikes? On my old bike I had the derailleur hanger brake on me twice because it was so darn flimsy. The top of it was solid metal but where you hooked on the derailleur hanger it split in two and the first time it broke on me the entire thing broke at once. The second time I had a bit of a heads up as one side of it broke and the other kept in tact. I had to wait and continue riding the bike for over a month while waiting for the new hanger to arrive as everybody including Wheels Manufacturing(the distributor) were out of stock. I've sit with a wheel that didn't want to stay attached to the bike a couple of times now. The first time was on a descent when it occurred. Boy was that a shock. I had never heard of a hanger breaking before. Made for a nice walk home.
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,247
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
16 Posts
It's setup the same way as the non drive side. I wouldn't have even thought about trying something like this without having both sides set up to hold the wheel in place. Actually I doubt you could even ride a bike without both sides in place.
The only real possible breakage with this would be from hitting a real nasty hole and having the top of the converter bending up on you which would allow the wheel to slip out. Otherwise I don't see too many other problems occurring. Yeah, I realize making it out of angle iron, even though it is galvy, I know to watch for any rust that would weaken the angle iron over time. Sure I have had a little trouble with the wheel slippage inside the dropout. I think I just need to watch and be more careful and tightening the wheel down better. Otherwise I hit a nice hole the other day and it held up fine. I almost lost it because of stopping pedaling and that naturally wanted to throw me all over the place, but that was my fault not the converters fault.
The only real possible breakage with this would be from hitting a real nasty hole and having the top of the converter bending up on you which would allow the wheel to slip out. Otherwise I don't see too many other problems occurring. Yeah, I realize making it out of angle iron, even though it is galvy, I know to watch for any rust that would weaken the angle iron over time. Sure I have had a little trouble with the wheel slippage inside the dropout. I think I just need to watch and be more careful and tightening the wheel down better. Otherwise I hit a nice hole the other day and it held up fine. I almost lost it because of stopping pedaling and that naturally wanted to throw me all over the place, but that was my fault not the converters fault.
#17
THE STUFFED
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 12,671
Bikes: R. Sachs Road; EAI Bareknuckle; S-Works Enduro
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 20 Times
in
17 Posts
It's setup the same way as the non drive side. I wouldn't have even thought about trying something like this without having both sides set up to hold the wheel in place. Actually I doubt you could even ride a bike without both sides in place.
The only real possible breakage with this would be from hitting a real nasty hole and having the top of the converter bending up on you which would allow the wheel to slip out. Otherwise I don't see too many other problems occurring. Yeah, I realize making it out of angle iron, even though it is galvy, I know to watch for any rust that would weaken the angle iron over time. Sure I have had a little trouble with the wheel slippage inside the dropout. I think I just need to watch and be more careful and tightening the wheel down better. Otherwise I hit a nice hole the other day and it held up fine. I almost lost it because of stopping pedaling and that naturally wanted to throw me all over the place, but that was my fault not the converters fault.
The only real possible breakage with this would be from hitting a real nasty hole and having the top of the converter bending up on you which would allow the wheel to slip out. Otherwise I don't see too many other problems occurring. Yeah, I realize making it out of angle iron, even though it is galvy, I know to watch for any rust that would weaken the angle iron over time. Sure I have had a little trouble with the wheel slippage inside the dropout. I think I just need to watch and be more careful and tightening the wheel down better. Otherwise I hit a nice hole the other day and it held up fine. I almost lost it because of stopping pedaling and that naturally wanted to throw me all over the place, but that was my fault not the converters fault.
#18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,247
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 17 Times
in
16 Posts
That was an idea I hadn't thought about. Thanks. Actually it was last Saturday when a guy in the LBS mentioned the idea of the seat stay pieces to help keep it from being able to rotate on me and throw the wheel off center. That wasn't my own idea. I had thought about it but couldn't see a secure enough way of achieving what I knew the do thanks to the rounded nature of the back side of the dropout on the bike itself. I hadn't thought about extending the 'brake' up above the vertical dropout. Dumb me.
#19
Your cog is slipping.
#20
forever shiny and chrome
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: in the scene
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
2 Posts
I agree. Just because you can ride a bike on the road doesn't mean you should...you might get hit by a car or might have deer run into the side of you(someone I know had that happen to him last fall), etc. Everybody has there own risk tolerance level. Actually mine is probably bigger than most. I have actually been looking for the part two years at building my own bike frame. No company builds what I'm looking for, so I have no other option than to build it myself. Yes, it would be a track end frame made out of wood. Could I ride it...yeah, should I...of course not it doesn't help support corporate America so of course I shouldn't ride it. It would be highly experimental. Totally adjustable frame, everything can be adjusted, in most cases you could adjust it while riding down the road...that way you can change the way bike handles to make it handle the way you want it to handle at the time in question. Should I ride something like that...no. If I just have to figure out how to accomplish everything I want to accomplish and yea I would build it and ride it. I ride all the time with a homemade rear rack and coroplast front fenders. Sure they could hang up on me and cause me trouble, and they have. Does it stop me from riding with them, no.
Nothing in life is safe. You could flip your car upside down and kill yourself as you drive home from work/shopping. Cars/SUVs aren't safe. Do people still drive. Nothing has ever been accomplished without someone taking a risk. You would be living in Richmond, IN if Columbus had sailed the ocean blue. you would still be overseas somewhere.
Off the smartassness. I do realize changing anything is a risk that it might break but I'm willing to take that risk. I know I don't have the money or the space to buy a new bike, nowhere to put it. I also realize that any new bike doesn't meet my requirements so why spend the money on something that doesn't give me what I want. Instead I just try to get closer and closer to what I want with what I have right now by manipulating it in a way that I feel comfortable with the risk involved in how I'm doing the manipulating. The reason I haven't built the bike above is I haven't figured out a way of doing it that I feel comfortable with the idea of riding it. I haven't stumbled into certain things out there that jumps out at me and screams...this is the way to do it. Everything probably exists but I just don't know about it yet/don't have easy access to it without spending a ton of money that I don't have to start with. As a result the idea of the bike is still on paper only and not on the road.
Nothing in life is safe. You could flip your car upside down and kill yourself as you drive home from work/shopping. Cars/SUVs aren't safe. Do people still drive. Nothing has ever been accomplished without someone taking a risk. You would be living in Richmond, IN if Columbus had sailed the ocean blue. you would still be overseas somewhere.
Off the smartassness. I do realize changing anything is a risk that it might break but I'm willing to take that risk. I know I don't have the money or the space to buy a new bike, nowhere to put it. I also realize that any new bike doesn't meet my requirements so why spend the money on something that doesn't give me what I want. Instead I just try to get closer and closer to what I want with what I have right now by manipulating it in a way that I feel comfortable with the risk involved in how I'm doing the manipulating. The reason I haven't built the bike above is I haven't figured out a way of doing it that I feel comfortable with the idea of riding it. I haven't stumbled into certain things out there that jumps out at me and screams...this is the way to do it. Everything probably exists but I just don't know about it yet/don't have easy access to it without spending a ton of money that I don't have to start with. As a result the idea of the bike is still on paper only and not on the road.
but hey, you built what you wanted to build and it works right? go out and have fun
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Cambridge, MA
Posts: 53
Bikes: Bianchi Pista
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Here's the question then...what is the difference between a 1/8" angle iron that has side to side support and greater thickness holding up the drivetrain and the flimsy derailleur hangers they put on multispeed bikes? On my old bike I had the derailleur hanger brake on me twice because it was so darn flimsy. The top of it was solid metal but where you hooked on the derailleur hanger it split in two and the first time it broke on me the entire thing broke at once. The second time I had a bit of a heads up as one side of it broke and the other kept in tact. I had to wait and continue riding the bike for over a month while waiting for the new hanger to arrive as everybody including Wheels Manufacturing(the distributor) were out of stock. I've sit with a wheel that didn't want to stay attached to the bike a couple of times now. The first time was on a descent when it occurred. Boy was that a shock. I had never heard of a hanger breaking before. Made for a nice walk home.
I like the ingenuity tho. Definitely something i could have seen myself doing when i was younger. Have you thought about shortening your chain? the strength in angle iron is, well, the angle... and since you split one side of it to create the 'dropout', the top half of it will fatigue pretty quickly and fail, especially with how long you have it now.
#23
Fresh Garbage
Neat. Do you have a way to get the two pieces welded together instead of being bolted together?
#24
Your cog is slipping.
The funniest thing is that if someone had posted a pic of the OP's wacky contraption in the jackass thread, it would be right at home there.