Pamestique 

It's funny... I still support "obsolete" means of communication. I like to write with a pen and paper. I send cards, in the mail. I actually call people using a home not mobile phone... does that mean I am poor? Am I underprivileged because I don't use (and don't have) an iPad or Laptop to communicate or study?

Technology is the least of anyone problems... when talking about the poor and homeless, mental health services, basic needs such as food, clothing and health care... giving someone with a mental disability a smartphone is not going to enrich his life.

BTW I go the library all the time; I love paper books. So do alot of other people apparently...

jmX

Last I heard printed books still outsold e-books 3:1 in the USA, and in every poll I've seen most people actually prefer printed books vs e-books. I have enough screen time in my life, books are a time away from screens for me (plus the books I buy don't work on e-paper readers due to the lack of color and low res graphics).

Dave Cutter

If you got THAT from your reading of my posts.... your library doesn't seem to contribute much at all. They were wonderful institutions... in their day.

Dave Cutter

You should listen more often?

cb400bill

Lets keep this thread on topic.

It is about SART-specific issues, not how many creeps watch porn in a library.

Cyclcist11023131

I live at Lincoln and SART. Those people are stuck in a bad situation. Just one thunderstorm in an area below Prado dam could drown them all. I have spoke with some of them and they say the ants are so bad up on the sides of the Riverbed that they had to move under the bridges on the bottom of the riverbed. Less Raccoons and Possums but more Coyotes and Mice. It seems they don't really care about the danger. If you look close you will see old encampments strewn about the bottom of the riverbed. These were washed out last month. There are stories about how they almost "got it" that time. Then they laugh and break out their glass pipes. I don't go under the Railroad Bridge below Lincoln or either Ball road,Katella, or Orangewood. This is due to a shopping cart incidence where I ended up doing the Superman and slamming into the pavement. They ran down to get my bike but I jumped up and they ran like hell. I was feeling pretty tough when another person on a bike rolled up and asked me if I needed an ambulance. I said no and he told me to look at myself. I had 20 plus small cuts from detritus and gravel on the trail. All were bleeding profusely. He said I looked like I got shot by a shotgun. No wonder they ran. I was scary as hell. Still I have just passed 20,000 miles on my still new looking bike. Most of it with SART as some portion of the ride. Screw Santa Ana, Anaheim is the new king of scary rides. PS: not all are bad. There are some very nice people down there some with full time jobs and families. Sometimes I have even seen kids. I sure hope they find a safer place to live.

GP

their

Dave Cutter

Thx.

DrIsotope

When riding the northern SART in the early morning hours, as one approaches the county line between San Bernardino and Riverside counties about 2 miles from Mount Roubidoux, you can watch the wisps of smoke rising up the campfires scattered across the river basin. There are some genuinely sizable encampments all along the uppermost section of the SART. But hey, it's running through the poorest city of it's size in the entire state, so what should we expect?

Dave Cutter

Respectfully... I believe you are mistaken. In decades (and centuries) past, building projects would go looking for labor to recruit (or even drag) from shanty towns. The American Northeast was built on canals dug for little more than meals and a daily ration of liquor. NO ONE will be seeking the strong backs of those homeless men.

Life, the world, reality has changed whether we like it or not.

Society is in a transitional period. Many, if not most people without modern skills are stuck in dependence. Dependence on government, charities, kind souls, and those willing to exploit them. Our means of dealing with our chronic poor (by pretending nothing has changed and all is well) is a shame.

There is still vast wealth in America. Nearly every human alive is capable of sharing in that wealth. But we restrict our own prosperity with our paradigms [of reality]. If you really think "technology" doesn't clothe the poor.... you really don't know what a Luddite is. Thank God the original Luddites failed in their attempt to stifle progress. Or decent clothing may have never become common.

It is a shame so many are willing to just... look away.

We can NOT live in a time when such disparity is allowed to be... and yet not retain the poverty it presents us with. Not until we allow ourselves to progress into a more modern time will we see.... more modern living conditions.

TrojanHorse

What you are is what we like to call "off the deep end"

You have contributed nothing of value to this thread. Just.... look away.

Garfield Cat

Actually, I enjoyed Dave Cutter's remarks. Whether one accepts it or not, its his "free speech". We need to avoid ad hominem comments.

gregf83 

I can't really understand what you are saying.

Are you implying that it's an understanding of technology that is holding the homeless back? Teaching them how to use an iPad will help them in some way? You disagree that they need mental health services and basic needs?

Dave Cutter

No. I realize that most people don't really see the "big picture". But I don't know how to dumb-down plain truth. Not that it takes intelligences to understand these simple truths. It takes an ability to set aside old paradigms... and that ain't easy!

People don't see a population still grasping at a time long past. America hasn't been a paper-base technology for two decades. Like it or not... America is a totally digital society. But those who fear technology hold our progress back. So our progress and our work force waits. Our economy stagnates. Instead of flourishing jobs and abundant prosperity..... we have tent cities.

We wait for my generation (the boomers) to die off. It may be... a very long wait. The government calls it a "generational transformation".

Of course the homeless need their basic needs met. The Ill and the addicts need treatment and compassion. The illiterate need educated and trained. The criminals need to be forced to pay their debts so they too can move on.

But NO ONE will get any of that with a popular mindset that as long as we can't see the tents from my house... all is OK. Or that it's OK to confine them to sit in tax funded structures.... at enormous cost and delays in human progress. Just so they have a place to pee. We pretend that news is still discovered by reading print on sheets of paper. We pretend that ABC, NBC, and CBS entertain and inform us. We pretend that science says one thing.... when EVERY actual scientist knows full well science say differently.

So we sit, we wait for a tired old generation (my generation) to die off and take their sad old ideas with them. Some wait in tents, smoking from glass pipes.... just waiting.

Just hide your eyes. You may never understand... why stress yourself out trying. Keep living like it's 1959... those were good times.

Pamestique 

Respectfully, again I deal with the homeless on a fairly regular basis... there is no easy answer. Giving a homeless person, who is likely mentally ill as well, money, solves nothing. That person then is likely to become victimized because he has money...

I also appreciate the "share the wealth" sentiment, and many people say that but I don't see many people actually out helping and trying to make change. It's not enough to say government should step in (be an "old" skool liberal and personally help - if you wait for the government to take action then nothing will ever get done) or the wealthy, who rightly earned their money and have rights to it, should give up their wealth...

It's not a simplistic problem and as I said previously I can go one for hours about the issues that need to be address and how we find and seek help. I appreciate a good idealist's rant; but ranting does nothing... action alwasys speaks louder than words. Dave, take that good heart of yours and start voluntaring... Salvation Army is always looking for people to help out.

BTW, I work in Newport Beach, ritzy area. As I pulled into a parking spot, two young men were in the car next to me. Obviously homeless and living out of the car. They asked me for money... I said "no", for a million reasons but I did direct them to a local shelter within walking distance if their car had no gas. I see more and more young people not working and becoming part of the homeless culture. That is concerning me now than the mentally ill issue. THAT I have no idea how to address...

corrado33

I have had a few unique experiences with homeless lately. The bike coop (which will fix homeless peoples' bikes for free) is right next to a warming center where homeless can sleep during the cold winter. That means we often have homeless hanging out outside our shop.

I feel bad for saying this, but I don't like it. I felt uncomfortable. Many of the homeless berated me because I rode in on a nice bike saying things like "That's a luxury" and "I wish I had a bike like that" and "I wish I could afford that." They also very often ask you do to things which you simply cannot do. No, I can't let you hang out inside of our shop with your friends until the warming center opens. No, I can't let you store your stuff inside of our shop, no, I can't let you set up your grill behind our shop. Look, I will GLADLY help a homeless person/person in need with their bikes. Our shop even gives out bikes, all you need is a note from one of the charities in town saying that you need one. But if you try to play the "oh pity me" thing with me, it's not going to work. It actually pisses me off. Don't sit there and tell me your sob story about how you have no money and you are suicidal. Don't assume I want to steal your stuff. I realize that some of these people are mentally unstable, but I can't deal with that. There are almost always ways out of things like that if you're willing to try.

Not to mention that at least 3/4 of them were drunk! They smell like alcohol and just act like they're hammered. Or at least sick enough to seem drunk. There was even a fistfight outside of our shop. It's ridiculous. Not to mention the back and side of our shop now permanently smell like urine.

Not all of them are like that. We get the one person down on their luck who comes in and works on their bike. Quiet, respectful, never assumes that you're going to give them anything. Those are the people who I enjoy working with and will gladly help every time. I'm not the type of person to deal with the sick/mentally ill homeless. I simply can't do it. I don't have enough compassion for it. I don't have the patience for it. I'm sorry. I do my best giving bikes to the homeless and needy.

The homeless outside of our shop have taken a good bit of the fun out of fixing the bikes. I don't need to be berated every time I go outside to test ride a bike.

Pamestique 

Corrado... be proud of the work you do... just know and understand many homeless are mentally ill and really can't conrol what they do and say... don't let them think what you do is not enough... it's more than most people would even think of doing. Thank you for what you do... working with and around the homless is "exhausting" physically and mentally... stay strong and resolve...

TJClay

This is what I see with most of the homeless. Most of the mental issues come from drug abuse. I can't see myself helping someone that won't help themselves.

Pamestique 

Not making excuses for folks with addictions but ever think that the addiction to drink and drugs results from depression and other mental issues, compounded by homelessness? Any addiction is a mental illness... some people can overcome the addiction some need help and frankly some are beyond help, but at least have some compassion... but I totally get how at some point one has to harden to the situation. I truly believe that drug use doesn't cause mental illnesses... its the mental illness that allows people to start using drugs...

I became involved many years ago when a loved one started displaying signs of schizoidphenia... the person lost his job, friends and family. He eventually lost his home and possessions and became homeless. I spent more years than I should admit trying to help him but eventually, in order to save my own mental health, gave up. I now try to help others who want the help or can be helped...

Tough situation either way...

HBCruiser1

Anyone with a brain at least the size of pea understands you segregate the good from the bad in society (except CA Democrats). Those in charge, mostly hiding in gated communities, believe it's a grand idea to release dangerous people into our neighborhoods-- note how there's no homeless in their neighborhoods.

I've worked hard over the years and live a bit above my means to live in a "safe" community for my family. It's my philosophy that you aspire to make at least enough money in life to put a fair distance between you and the crazzies out there who inevitably bring you down with them. So when someone without this basic understanding wants to bring that element to your area, it gets me fuming. Why on earth would you voluntarily BRING mayhem into your life and your neighbors, isn't life hard enough already?

So, since I have little control over what our so-called "leaders" do (this is a state ruled by one party), the only thing I can do is try to keep my area safe for my family, which to me means if you don't want to get bit by a shark, don't chum while you're in the water. It's pretty simple really.

On topic of the SART and SGRT et al, it's really shameful that trails like this that are supposed to be really nice trails as a safe alternative to riding on the streets, but they also have this nasty element whereby most of the time I'd rather take my chances on the street. It's also interesting how this element is not usually found on trails in Irvine/So county, or at least I haven't noticed or the numbers are so small it's negligible. Which is really my first comment far above, don't feed a stray cat unless you want more stray cats. Stop feeding them and they magically go away.

Cyclcist11023131

Latest news. City of Anaheim has released a plan to spend 4.2 million dollars on an abandoned Warehouse to convert to a homeless shelter. It is located by Carls Jr. where the homeless guy stabbed an innocent man a couple of years ago.( He got housing.) By Tustin and La Palma. Will it work ? Who knows...

Jan Feetz

This. Well said.