merider1

Given the enthusiasm all of you have for climbing (and for jerseys that "prove" you climb ), do any of you have a specific interval training method or routine that improves your ability on climbs with respect to speed and endurance? I've been practicing the "pedal with one foot clipped in" interval method that was suggested to me by a Colavita rider. However, I can't really tell any difference other than a slight improvement in my pedal stroke, but my climbing is about the same. Before anyone responds, let me just state that I know some riders' wisdom is that one should climb more to be a better climber (which doesn't help me - I climb all the time - I'm looking for specific training techniques off of the hill) or drop weight to lighten the load (don't even go there, I'm having a fat week and I won't be nice back ). Any suggestions?

bitingduck

My favorite subject...

I actually enjoy intervals (don't ask me why-I'm not sure I know), and my favorite ones are tuesday and thursday at the ADT Velodrome (yes, it's a disease. I probably do almost half my miles on it). They vary from week to week so you don't get bored (there's music too), and are designed for people of every level from complete noob to nationally competitive racer to get something out of them (and be able to ride them safely). They emphasize different things every week-- sometimes it's raw speed and recovery, sometimes it's holding a hard tempo.

I disagree with the "you have to climb a lot to get better at climbing"-- I hardly climbed at all in 2005, but did a ton of track intervals. When I did the christmas bike ride at the end of december I was putting the hurt on my GF, who is about 50 lbs lighter than me and normally punishes me on the climbs, especially when they get steep. She had been doing a lot of skating/blading though, and was stronger than ever on the flats, towing me in to the end on day 2. I climbed better than ever for the whole trip without hardly climbing all year.

You have to increase your power to weight to climb faster, and you can do it by increasing power (more fun) or losing weight (less fun, and I haven't lost more than about 5 lbs despite all the miles). Basically it amounts to having to ride harder to be able to ride harder. You do it as intervals so you don't have to maintain the harder pace, but if they're designed right (partial recovery) you benefit as if you had been maintaining the higher pace that you couldn't normally hold.

jschen

Ride with faster people. Beyond that, it depends on what your climbing weaknesses are. For example, for me, my biggest weaknesses are (1) a weak mental game, (2) poor endurance out of the saddle, and (3) poor leg strength seated, in that order.

All the pedaling in the world won't help (1). I'm working on pacing strategies to allow myself to better approach my physical limits. (That I never feel the need to throw up while climbing Baldy or Palomar should tell me something.) I've worked out new flat ground/shallow grade pacing strategies. Still haven't learned to do the same on steeper stuff. (2) and (3) are easier to target in my case. When I don't feel like riding outdoor (too lazy), I try to spend some time on a trainer at high resistance, in and out of the saddle. If I were more disciplined, I'd also hit the gym. But I'm not that disciplined, so some time on the trainer while watching TV or surfing the web will have to do.

merider1

[QUOTE=bitingduck]My favorite subject...

Forgive my ignorance, but can anyone go on a Velodrome? I know so little about it in the 2.75 years I've been at this sport.

Trust me, we AGREE on this - I have only heard this is the case, so I've been trying it. But I don't see a significant improvement in my climbing by simply climbing more (although, I have seen a significant improvement in my overall endurance the more I ride/cross train/lift weights, etc. - but that's a given).

Thank you, BD, for the input.

merider1

I ride consistently with faster, stronger riders and agree it most definitely helps (certainly in terms of motivation, picking up tips and sheer necessity to pick up the pace). But I've also almost injured myself trying to climb too fast for my level out of fear of being the slowest climber. Mentally, I'm a nut (there is little I won't push myself through and have practically vomited off the side of a bike ), so that is rarely an issue (except in extreme heat or if I can't breathe...that's when I'm realistic and will get off my bike). What I really need (I think) is to try different techniques within my training and not just on my GMR/Baldy rides, etc. Another cyclist friend had me try to climb GMR standing for a mile at a time, and then recover for four miles. I will try that again - but it is still a training technique ON a hill. I'm hoping to find something off hill that will improve my performance when I'm climbing. Does that make sense? (or no, I should just shut up and get to climbing? )

jschen

Make sure if you vomit while on the bike to vomit to the left. Otherwise, the vomit might end up in your drivetrain. Happily, I've only vomited on a bike once before, and I did manage to vomit to the left.

Umm... may I borrow your mind the next time I try to set a personal record on Baldy? I could use the mentality of a nut.

Work on your leg strength and/or your cardio, depending on which is more limiting. How? Not a clue. Hopefully someone else can tell you.

merider1

[QUOTE=jschen]

You have me beat for being tough! Did you stay on and just keep pedaling?

Sure, just get really pissed off that all of the other riders are passing you and push like hell even though your legs are screaming at you. (this would be why there is no way in hell I'm doing the Baldy Challenge with all of you guys on here - I already know who will be way back on that mountain and my ego couldn't take it! )


Thanks for your advice anyway even if you don't have an exact plan.

jschen

Well, it was my second ride after having been off the bike for a month (and doing two short rides the month before that). My first ride was Breathless Agony, where I struggled and did not finish the entire route. (No big surprise there.) I vowed to never let myself get so out of shape again, so my second ride was my favored pre-breakfast hilly loop, trying to start the process of getting back in shape. Hit the 17% grade section and just to keep myself moving uphill, I quickly passed through the "sub-barf" zone and reached the point where I had to barf. If I stopped on a 17% grade, there was a good chance I wouldn't be able to continue, so I continued pedaling as I vomited. Once at the top, though, I pulled over and took a short break to recover a bit.

I'll give that a try.

bitingduck

Sort of. They pretty much all require an intro class to approve you to ride-- it's a pretty new experience for most people to be on banking with no brakes and fixed gear (but it's not as hard as it might sound), and the class makes it safer for everybody, since you're all on a 250 m track together. You can get a taste at ADT for $15 (doesn't count as the class, but it lets you find out if you want to try it more) and then the certification classes are $65 or $225 depending on your pack riding experience. There's also a women's only intro thing coming up that you should look into-- it may be geared more to racers so you should contact the people organizing it (check the link in my sig, and it's in the "what's new" box). If you join a club that has volunteers there for big events then you also get a big discount on things.

Encino is cheaper (I think the intro class is $20) but the structured training/intervals isn't as good. It's also probably closer for you. You could get a book like Friel's cyclists training bible and put together some intervals and do them there without it even taking a lot of time.

Mostly climbing better will be about being able to put out more power for longer-- just doing more climbing at the same pace won't help as much as hard intervals (either flat or hill climbing).

chimivee

Rad.

Dubbayoo

int's on the track or the trainers?

bitingduck

I do them on the track. There are sometimes people there doing the same intervals on the spin bikes, and 20-40 people on the track. A couple weeks ago when my hand was too messed up to ride I did 30/30 intervals (zone 5/zone 1) on the spin bike. It was pretty hard because you don't store as much momentum in the flywheel of the spin bike as you do in the motion of the real bike.

1265 Lombardi

I find a longish hill (2-3 miles, i.e Newport Coast) and do a up hill time trial with hard effort thrown in every few minutes to a point where I blow up. I dont know if its the best way but thats what I do.

jsigone

I converted my MTB to a singlespeed, forces me to do interval the whole climb up. So far after 2 rides it's doing a good job at kicking my butt.

BigSean

The pedaling with one foot is really more about improving your pedal stoke. To climb better you need more power. That being said, there are several ways to build power. Pick a fairly steep grade (for you) close to home, and one day a week go do repeats on said hill. Dont use a spinning gear, choose a gear you would not usually climb in. Dont sprint to the hill to get momentum, start slowly and climb in the gear you picked, first sitting for as long as you can, then out of the saddle, accelerate when yuo get out of the saddle, then sit and push as hard as you can. Repeat. As you get stronger, change gears to make it harder, pretty soon youo will be climbing in gears you never could before. Your climbing cadence may be the same but you'll be moving faster which actually makes climbing easier.

You can also do some weight training, but be sure to hit the entire leg and butt area, meaning severl different movements. Have balanced power in the leggs and butt are important. You dont have to use alot of weight either. Squats and lunges can be done with dumbells at home. Step ups can also be real good. Like stepping onto a bench, milk crate, something of that nature, alternate legs. Have fun.

merider1

great. helpful.

merider1

I'm going to try this next week during my normal training rides. Thank you! As far as the weights go, I lift very heavy weights and have an entire "leg" day with squats, lunges, etc. I used to do this twice a week but backed it down to once due to my riding schedule. Perhaps that has been my mistake.

Anyway, thank you guys for your collective two cents!

BigSean

Because of the riding once a week is plenty. If you really push yoourself to blowing up on each repeat you will get stonger quick. Not to mention your body will learn to recover quicker.

tprevost

Dang... I have those every week!

merider1

You know, Trac, I should start a thread on here for the women to vent. It so isn't fair that the guys are free of having the type of fat weeks we women do! (I'm sure NONE of them will want to respond back to this)...I don't know about you, but the week leading up to my period completely knocks me out. And there is nothing worse than trying so hard to improve and push myself physically to just have it undermined with a a body that betrays me by flushing copious amounts of hormones into it! Ugh!

Once this week passes, I'll hit the hills and try Injured's suggestions. (thank goodness the century I'm riding on Saturday isn't too taxing!)

tprevost

since you're asking about things you can do off the bike, I second this recommendation. Also, if you can get some spin classes in, I've heard these improve leg strength as well (this is one I'm going to try shortly)

merider1

I love spin classes but have to choose between them or riding outdoors. Usually, being on my bike wins! But I agree that spin definitely helps with the riding.

BigSean

Im sorry I read that.

tprevost

Actually, I have trouble every week! As all who have ridden w/me know, I'm just beginning to get back in shape and am always the last one up the hills! I have not been able to ride as much as I really need to to improve but hills are one of my weakest points so I will be working on them specifically (otherwise, ya'll will be sleeping at the top of Keys View in JT by the time I get there!!) Regardless, I am reading this thread w/great interest so I can possibly utilize some of the tips.

trac'

tprevost

awww... come on, I'm sure you've heard all this before...