Difficulty Ranking of Area Rides
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Difficulty Ranking of Area Rides
With all the talk of upcoming rides, I was curious: is it possible to rank, in terms of difficulty, organized SoCal rides? I'm sure there would be much debate, and if you're not familiar (like myself) with any of the rides, you can't knowledgeably participate in the discussion. But I love to read what you all have to say about the various rides.
Of course, how do you decide what's difficult or not? Double centuries are probably harder than centuries. The 508 harder still and Paris-Brest-Paris (not in SoCal) hardest of all. Climbing definitely comes into play. Steepness of climbs has to count. But not if there's only 2-miles of them.
So let's limit the discussion to single centuries (not metric) for now. I'll watch and listen to your arguments and follow-up with a poll so we can make it "official" .
What are your impressions?
Of course, how do you decide what's difficult or not? Double centuries are probably harder than centuries. The 508 harder still and Paris-Brest-Paris (not in SoCal) hardest of all. Climbing definitely comes into play. Steepness of climbs has to count. But not if there's only 2-miles of them.
So let's limit the discussion to single centuries (not metric) for now. I'll watch and listen to your arguments and follow-up with a poll so we can make it "official" .
What are your impressions?
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Topanga, but I'm not a hippy
Posts: 2,820
Bikes: IF Club Racer, Bike Friday Pocket Rocket
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I rate difficulty by looking at the ratio of Mileage to (Feet of Climbing/100). I divide the feet of climbing by 100 to get the 2 numbers on a similar scale.
So A 100 mile ride with 2000 feet of climbing is a .20 ratio. That should be a relatively easy century with a max of one BIG hill, or several smaller hills, and otherwise flat.
A 100 mile ride with 10,000 feet of climbing is a 1.0 ratio (The 12/30 Bloat ride was a 1.0). I can keep that up for 40-50 miles, but I couldn't do 100 miles of that.
I like using this ratio because it keeps things nice and mathmatical for me. So far, it's served as an excellent way for me to compare rides.
Most organized rides around here are falling in the .40 - .65 range. I don't bother with wind, since it's unpredictable and inconsistent. But if we're talking about rating the organized rides, and it's generally a windy course, then I'd just know it's a little harder.
So A 100 mile ride with 2000 feet of climbing is a .20 ratio. That should be a relatively easy century with a max of one BIG hill, or several smaller hills, and otherwise flat.
A 100 mile ride with 10,000 feet of climbing is a 1.0 ratio (The 12/30 Bloat ride was a 1.0). I can keep that up for 40-50 miles, but I couldn't do 100 miles of that.
I like using this ratio because it keeps things nice and mathmatical for me. So far, it's served as an excellent way for me to compare rides.
Most organized rides around here are falling in the .40 - .65 range. I don't bother with wind, since it's unpredictable and inconsistent. But if we're talking about rating the organized rides, and it's generally a windy course, then I'd just know it's a little harder.
__________________
just being
just being
#3
Merlins are forever...
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Lake Forest, CA
Posts: 166
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by ronjon10
I rate difficulty by looking at the ratio of Mileage to (Feet of Climbing/100). I divide the feet of climbing by 100 to get the 2 numbers on a similar scale.
So A 100 mile ride with 2000 feet of climbing is a .20 ratio. That should be a relatively easy century with a max of one BIG hill, or several smaller hills, and otherwise flat.
A 100 mile ride with 10,000 feet of climbing is a 1.0 ratio (The 12/30 Bloat ride was a 1.0). I can keep that up for 40-50 miles, but I couldn't do 100 miles of that.
I like using this ratio because it keeps things nice and mathmatical for me. So far, it's served as an excellent way for me to compare rides.
Most organized rides around here are falling in the .40 - .65 range. I don't bother with wind, since it's unpredictable and inconsistent. But if we're talking about rating the organized rides, and it's generally a windy course, then I'd just know it's a little harder.
So A 100 mile ride with 2000 feet of climbing is a .20 ratio. That should be a relatively easy century with a max of one BIG hill, or several smaller hills, and otherwise flat.
A 100 mile ride with 10,000 feet of climbing is a 1.0 ratio (The 12/30 Bloat ride was a 1.0). I can keep that up for 40-50 miles, but I couldn't do 100 miles of that.
I like using this ratio because it keeps things nice and mathmatical for me. So far, it's served as an excellent way for me to compare rides.
Most organized rides around here are falling in the .40 - .65 range. I don't bother with wind, since it's unpredictable and inconsistent. But if we're talking about rating the organized rides, and it's generally a windy course, then I'd just know it's a little harder.
__________________
I am the REAL madmike!!!
.......__o
.......\<,
....( )/ ( )...
I am the REAL madmike!!!
.......__o
.......\<,
....( )/ ( )...
#4
Live To Ride Another Day!
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 303
Bikes: Pig with lipstick (Trek Pilot 2.1 Ulterga Group/Compact Crank)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
So Stagecoach is rated .33 assuming 100 miles and 3,300 feet elevation?
I always look at the miles to vertical gain and where the climbing is loaded: front, back or both. I already know I enjoy Century rides 4K and under front loaded, but that is because of trial and error. (And age.) This not to say I do not attempt other rides but it’s a yard stick I use. I agree you can not use weather for ratings, but one must factor this in on the day of the ride. I love a good elevation profile so I can plan my ride which is pedal until you’re done. Another important factor in rating a non-supported ride is access to water and potty.
I see bicycle clubs using a numerical or star rating system. The higher the number or more stars the more difficult the ride. All in all I use all the information I can gain to judge the ride.
From the SVBC web site: 1 means a short-distance, relatively flat ride; 3 means an intermediate, medium-distance, somewhat hilly ride; 5 means a difficult, long-distance, and/or mountainous ride
From the Channel Islands Bicycle Club web site: RIDE DIFFICULTY: A=flat; B=rolling; C=climbing; D= major climbing; E= catch a tram!
Bicycle Ride Director’s Association of America (BRDAA) scale: The Bicycle Ride Director's Association of America (BRDAA) has developed the ride difficulty rating scale described in the chart shown here.
The 50 mile route is rated * * * *
The 100 mile route is rated * * * * *
I always look at the miles to vertical gain and where the climbing is loaded: front, back or both. I already know I enjoy Century rides 4K and under front loaded, but that is because of trial and error. (And age.) This not to say I do not attempt other rides but it’s a yard stick I use. I agree you can not use weather for ratings, but one must factor this in on the day of the ride. I love a good elevation profile so I can plan my ride which is pedal until you’re done. Another important factor in rating a non-supported ride is access to water and potty.
I see bicycle clubs using a numerical or star rating system. The higher the number or more stars the more difficult the ride. All in all I use all the information I can gain to judge the ride.
From the SVBC web site: 1 means a short-distance, relatively flat ride; 3 means an intermediate, medium-distance, somewhat hilly ride; 5 means a difficult, long-distance, and/or mountainous ride
From the Channel Islands Bicycle Club web site: RIDE DIFFICULTY: A=flat; B=rolling; C=climbing; D= major climbing; E= catch a tram!
Bicycle Ride Director’s Association of America (BRDAA) scale: The Bicycle Ride Director's Association of America (BRDAA) has developed the ride difficulty rating scale described in the chart shown here.
The 50 mile route is rated * * * *
The 100 mile route is rated * * * * *
Last edited by MarkAJ; 03-05-08 at 02:59 PM.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Topanga, but I'm not a hippy
Posts: 2,820
Bikes: IF Club Racer, Bike Friday Pocket Rocket
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MarkAJ
So Stagecoach is rated .33 assuming 100 miles and 3,300 feet elevation?
I see bicycle clubs using a numerical or star rating system. The higher the number or more stars the more difficult the ride. All in all I use all the information I can gain to judge the ride.
From the Channel Islands Bicycle Club web site: RIDE DIFFICULTY: A=flat; B=rolling; C=climbing; D= major climbing; E= catch a tram!
I see bicycle clubs using a numerical or star rating system. The higher the number or more stars the more difficult the ride. All in all I use all the information I can gain to judge the ride.
From the Channel Islands Bicycle Club web site: RIDE DIFFICULTY: A=flat; B=rolling; C=climbing; D= major climbing; E= catch a tram!
The problem I have with the star system which incorporates both mileage and distance, is that every century gets rated very difficult. Basically, if it's 100 mile, it's a 5 star difficulty. That doesn't leave variation for differences between Palm Springs and Breathless Agony.
So for me, I just use the elevation rating and make my own judgement on distance. A 40-50 mile 1.0 is something I'd tackle (bloat ride (I cut early at GMR)). A 1.0 century (mulholland challenge) is clearly beyond me right now.
The channel island system looks like it uses my method, they just make it even simpler by grouping the ratios into buckets. (ie, 0-.30 = A, .3-.5 = b etc) <- I don't know their official measurements, just an example.
__________________
just being
just being
Last edited by ronjon10; 01-11-07 at 05:53 PM.
#6
got the climbing bug
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 10,204
Bikes: one for everything
Mentioned: 82 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 632 Post(s)
Liked 908 Times
in
273 Posts
what about rides that are less then 100 miles but have boat loads of climbing, how can we caluculate factor?
__________________
Rule #10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster.
Rule #10 // It never gets easier, you just go faster.
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,274
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8273 Post(s)
Liked 9,028 Times
in
4,469 Posts
I prefer the "Seat of the pants" system for centuries. I think Breathless Agony is the hardest local century, Muholland Challenge close second. Flip these for some riders.I thought Solvang was a little harder than Cool Breeze, but niether of them compares to the other two. Heartbreak Hundred falls in between the first two and the second two. While not quite 100 miles, the L.A. Wheelmen Angeles Crest to San Gabriel Canyon and Two Tujungas rides are both harder than Cool Breeze. I think the climbing is the biggest part of the difficulty. Lets face it, 100 flat miles isn't that hard, barring huge headwinds. I once rode from Julian to Laguna, around 85-90 miles, and with the wind and touring bike it took about 11 hours.
#8
Over the hill
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 24,373
Bikes: Giant Defy, Giant Revolt
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 996 Post(s)
Liked 1,204 Times
in
690 Posts
Originally Posted by mkadam68
Steepness of climbs has to count. But not if there's only 2-miles of them.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Topanga, but I'm not a hippy
Posts: 2,820
Bikes: IF Club Racer, Bike Friday Pocket Rocket
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by urbanknight
That's my biggest complaint about the ratings on local rides, they don't mention how steep the hills. I'd rather do 3000' of consistant climbing over, say 40 miles than gain 1000' in only a mile. It's hard to tell what the grades are when looking at the elevation profile on the route planners so that leaves us guessing,
Now then, if it's just an unorganized ride, you're right, we're on our own. If we accidentally pick Las Flores rather than Malibu Canyon to get from PCH to Mulholland, well, ouch.
__________________
just being
just being
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by big john
I prefer the "Seat of the pants" system for centuries. I think Breathless Agony is the hardest local century, Muholland Challenge close second. Flip these for some riders.I thought Solvang was a little harder than Cool Breeze, but niether of them compares to the other two. Heartbreak Hundred falls in between the first two and the second two. While not quite 100 miles, the L.A. Wheelmen Angeles Crest to San Gabriel Canyon and Two Tujungas rides are both harder than Cool Breeze. I think the climbing is the biggest part of the difficulty. Lets face it, 100 flat miles isn't that hard, barring huge headwinds. I once rode from Julian to Laguna, around 85-90 miles, and with the wind and touring bike it took about 11 hours.
Like Big John:
1. Breathless Agony
2. Mulholland Challenge
3. Heartbreak Hundred
4. Solvang
5. LAW Angeles Crest-San Gabriel Canyon (??)
6. LAW Two Tujungas (??)
7. Cool Breeze
#11
Over the hill
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 24,373
Bikes: Giant Defy, Giant Revolt
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 996 Post(s)
Liked 1,204 Times
in
690 Posts
Originally Posted by ronjon10
I think (and could be very, very wrong) that most organized centuries take the longer gentler grades rather than the brutal insane climbs because the insane steep grades just hurt most normal folks. The ones that have the killer climbs advertise that fact, so they can attract the true crazies
Now then, if it's just an unorganized ride, you're right, we're on our own. If we accidentally pick Las Flores rather than Malibu Canyon to get from PCH to Mulholland, well, ouch.
Now then, if it's just an unorganized ride, you're right, we're on our own. If we accidentally pick Las Flores rather than Malibu Canyon to get from PCH to Mulholland, well, ouch.
#12
late braker
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: venice
Posts: 335
Bikes: eddy merckx majestic ti
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
climbs in the santa monicas, hard to easy(er)
los flores canyon (including los flores)
tuna canyon (all the way to saddle peak)
decker
piuma
encinal
westridge
latigo
stunt
tigertail
mullholland (rock store)
there are others, just not as much fun (traffic, etc)
los flores canyon (including los flores)
tuna canyon (all the way to saddle peak)
decker
piuma
encinal
westridge
latigo
stunt
tigertail
mullholland (rock store)
there are others, just not as much fun (traffic, etc)
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,274
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8273 Post(s)
Liked 9,028 Times
in
4,469 Posts
Originally Posted by mkadam68
Okay... So how would anyone else order the following, hardest to easiest? (Feel free to expand the list with others upcoming or ones you have done as well as insightful comments .)
Like Big John:
1. Breathless Agony
2. Mulholland Challenge
3. Heartbreak Hundred
4. Solvang
5. LAW Angeles Crest-San Gabriel Canyon (??)
6. LAW Two Tujungas (??)
7. Cool Breeze
Like Big John:
1. Breathless Agony
2. Mulholland Challenge
3. Heartbreak Hundred
4. Solvang
5. LAW Angeles Crest-San Gabriel Canyon (??)
6. LAW Two Tujungas (??)
7. Cool Breeze
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,274
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8273 Post(s)
Liked 9,028 Times
in
4,469 Posts
Originally Posted by dangerman
climbs in the santa monicas, hard to easy(er)
los flores canyon (including los flores)
tuna canyon (all the way to saddle peak)
decker
piuma
encinal
westridge
latigo
stunt
tigertail
mullholland (rock store)
there are others, just not as much fun (traffic, etc)
los flores canyon (including los flores)
tuna canyon (all the way to saddle peak)
decker
piuma
encinal
westridge
latigo
stunt
tigertail
mullholland (rock store)
there are others, just not as much fun (traffic, etc)
#15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by big john
That's part of the difficulty of rating rides, there can be factors other than just climbing.
Originally Posted by big john
That's pretty cool, Mark. I'd say you could put the Wildflower and the Lighthouse close to the Cool Breeze, and those 3 rides are pretty close to Solvang on paper, but I think Solvang is harder than them for reasons other than just vertical gain. There is a section of Solvang (Foxen Canyon) that just wears me out, it's 20 miles of false flat and the surface is rough, then there is a hill at the end.
- Breathless Agony
- Mulholland Challenge
- Heartbreak Hundred
- Solvang
- LAW Angeles Crest-San Gabriel Canyon (??)
- LAW Two Tujungas (??)
- (tie) Cool Breeze, Lighthouse, Wildflower
#16
Queen of France
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,799
Bikes: Look 565, Trek 2120
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mkadam68
Yeah...that's why I was hoping we could start a discussion about it...get input from all the riders who have done them. The listing would then be more accurate.
Okay...revised:
Okay...revised:
- Breathless Agony
- Mulholland Challenge
- Heartbreak Hundred
- Solvang
- LAW Angeles Crest-San Gabriel Canyon (??)
- LAW Two Tujungas (??)
- (tie) Cool Breeze, Lighthouse, Wildflower
#17
late braker
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: venice
Posts: 335
Bikes: eddy merckx majestic ti
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by big john
What is Tigertail? I would put Latigo harder than Encinal. What about Westlake, (Decker north of Mulholland), and Deer Creek would be close to the top of that list. Yerba Buena could be right below Decker. Fernwood right around Stunt, just longer.
Haven't done Westlake, only driven it. Looks fun. I couldn't remember the name Fernwood, but that should be in there.
Tigertail runs off Kenter just north of the Sunset/Kenter intersection. Its three distinct pitches. 1st one is short, just a prelude, second pitch is steeper and longer, and the last pitch gets above 15%.
Other climbs I looked over...and glaring in their omission:
Mandeville. Starts off easy, progressively harder to the top.
Amalfi: Never too hard, great recovery climb