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  1. #1
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    SFV Critical Mass

    Hey guys, I'll be part of the San Fernando Valley Critical Mass tomorrow night at 7:30 that meets on the Orange Line end of Woodley and Victory.

    I'll be tracking it also with my service. If in case you arrive late or lose the group for any reason, follow these directions so you'll get texts from me automatically on our location everytime we come to a stop.

    http://www.trackmidnightridazz.com/

  2. #2
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    bump!^ this is tonight =)

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    Time Trialist & Duathlete mtv8dmarine's Avatar
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    I'll be sure to stay away from riding around there for awhile. With so much negative sentiment towards cyclists lately it's no wonder what at least part of the problem is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mtv8dmarine View Post
    I'll be sure to stay away from riding around there for awhile. With so much negative sentiment towards cyclists lately it's no wonder what at least part of the problem is.
    Cry me a river.

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    Imho, critical mass is like fighting fire with fire...

    I've always thought water was a better idea.

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    Newbie William12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by La Bicyclette View Post
    Cry me a river.
    These kind of comments just add fuel to the fire. Everyone has a right to their opinion and critical mass does not appeal to everyone. Being sarcastic, kid, does nothing to promote your ride. Just some advice from an old codger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by William12 View Post
    These kind of comments just add fuel to the fire. Everyone has a right to their opinion and critical mass does not appeal to everyone. Being sarcastic, kid, does nothing to promote your ride. Just some advice from an old codger.
    Yes, you're right, by saying that i was just making matters worse, i apologize to whoever i directed that towards.

    I had to look up old codger as I'd never heard that word.. google says "used affectionately to refer to an eccentric but amusing old man" hehe

    Anyway the ride was actually very nice last night, nobody was out of line, we had music, we went through interesting parts and everybody was super friendly, that's always pleasant.

  8. #8
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    Sorry, but I still don't see what is accomplished by critical masses. They're usually not even legal like most protests are. I'm glad I have never run into one myself. I've even heard of them holding up and delaying bicycle commuters on their way home from work. What's the point in that?
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

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    fart knocker Oleanshoebox's Avatar
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    I ran into one when I was in San Francisco and it was a PITA for my family in our rented van...but when I thought of all the dead and injured cyclists who were ignored by hit and run drivers...when I think of the sad state our natural resources are in...when I think like a cyclist-I see the point. Are there better ways to get the point across-maybe-but these people have a right to do what they are doing. I know what the vehicle code says and how many vehicles back do you have to be before the vehicle in front of you is not illegally obstructing traffic? If there are 100 bikes (legal vehicles) ahead of you, how are they breaking the law?

    If they run red lights that is a different story, I guess-but I still support their cause-and identify with their attitude. How can you not?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleanshoebox View Post
    when I think like a cyclist-I see the point.I guess-but I still support their cause-and identify with their attitude. How can you not?
    This is why I can't...I'm a cyclist and I do want people that treat cyclists bad on the roads to understand we have a right and that it's not ok to treat us like crap. But slowing traffic down and blocking drivers isn't going to do anything but piss them off. You can't think of this as a cyclist if you're trying to convey your message to people that aren't cyclists. You have to think like a person in a car that doesn't ride a bike.

    Most people that don't ride usually aren't happy when critical masses come along.

  11. #11
    fart knocker Oleanshoebox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wcoastbikr View Post
    This is why I can't...I'm a cyclist and I do want people that treat cyclists bad on the roads to understand we have a right and that it's not ok to treat us like crap. But slowing traffic down and blocking drivers isn't going to do anything but piss them off. You can't think of this as a cyclist if you're trying to convey your message to people that aren't cyclists. You have to think like a person in a car that doesn't ride a bike.

    Most people that don't ride usually aren't happy when critical masses come along.
    I think you missed the point of my post...and pissing off motorists is exactly what critical mass is trying to do-to prove that nobody cares or notices when cyclists get pissed off-or injured-or killed. But godforbid a motorist be 10 minutes late to their dinner meeting!

    I don't mean to stir things up-but these kids have got a right to stand up and piss some people off. It gives me hope that this is what young cyclists are doing. More power to 'em.

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    As cyclists we all have a set of rules we tend to try and follow. A car is two tons of steel, rubber, plastic and fuel moving down some of the same roads many of us do. When riding in groups we have developed a method of co-existance, mostly peacefully but not always, with other forms of traffic. When riding in groups we often call from the back of the group "car back" so the rest of the group can form into a single file and space permitting allow the two tons of assorted hard bits and fuel to pass. There are times when we "take the lane" and even make turns from the turn lane. But always in the spirit of co-operation with traffic. It is for that very reason many cyclists that ride to commute, race, for health, or because it is a lifestyle sometimes have a problem with events that turn a form of transportation into a party. If we were do do the same thing as a pedestrian we would need a permit and after getting the permit we would receive the support of our local law enforcement. Still blocking the whole street and riding through malls full of people does seem counter productive when trying to get our communities to view us as good citizens that take our form of transportation seriously. Then after the event is over those of us on those same streets are left to try and rebuild that daily coexistance again. So it is equally understandable if some cyclists aren't as happy about the events as the party goers.

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    fart knocker Oleanshoebox's Avatar
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    It seems I did a poor job of explaining that I understand both sides of the coin-but implicit in these arguments you both present is that the rights of the motorist supersede those of the cyclist. Sure-water fights fire better than fire-but these kids have a right to be pissed off-and to express that passion and fervor. I applaud their audacity.

  14. #14
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleanshoebox View Post
    If they run red lights that is a different story...
    That's what I was referring to specifically. Not that all CMs do that, but most of them do.


    Quote Originally Posted by wcoastbikr View Post
    This is why I can't...I'm a cyclist and I do want people that treat cyclists bad on the roads to understand we have a right and that it's not ok to treat us like crap. But slowing traffic down and blocking drivers isn't going to do anything but piss them off. You can't think of this as a cyclist if you're trying to convey your message to people that aren't cyclists. You have to think like a person in a car that doesn't ride a bike.

    Most people that don't ride usually aren't happy when critical masses come along.
    Well put.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oleanshoebox View Post
    I think you missed the point of my post...and pissing off motorists is exactly what critical mass is trying to do-to prove that nobody cares or notices when cyclists get pissed off-or injured-or killed. But godforbid a motorist be 10 minutes late to their dinner meeting!

    I don't mean to stir things up-but these kids have got a right to stand up and piss some people off. It gives me hope that this is what young cyclists are doing. More power to 'em.
    I don't see how pissing people off does anything. Based on the few conversations I've had with non-cyclists, things like CMs and other cyclists acting like A-holes make them feel like they are justified in buzzing them or ignoring them... because we're apparently asking for it. Of course, that doesn't make it right for the drivers, but it shows that CMs are obviously leading to MORE harassment instead of proving anything. Drivers don't make the connection between their unnecessary inconvenience and the risk cyclists face when taking to the streets.

    Also, if they are breaking the law, they do not have the right to hinder other people's lives intentionally. I believe in freedom, but when one person intentionally invades someone else's rights, the line has been crossed. Furthermore, why piss off tons of people when only a small fraction of them are the A-hole drivers that deserve it? Punishing many for the actions of few is pathetic.

    Sorry if my words seem too strong, but I am personally offended by any cyclist (CM or otherwise) who promotes a lack of respect towards other people who may or may not have dished out the same in the past.
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  15. #15
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    By the way, there was a thread in the road forum about a year ago where a guy was driving his daughter to the hospital for a broken bone and got held up by a CM. He even tried to shout out that he was getting to the hospital, but only got jeers from the riders in return. He was lucky it wasn't a time sensitive issue, but the agony of seeing a loved one in pain with you helpless to do anything about it because of some people who are intentionally hindering you... well, that sounds like hell to me, all caused by people who are trying to teach this cyclist and father a lesson he already knows!!!
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleanshoebox View Post
    It seems I did a poor job of explaining that I understand both sides of the coin-but implicit in these arguments you both present is that the rights of the motorist supersede those of the cyclist. Sure-water fights fire better than fire-but these kids have a right to be pissed off-and to express that passion and fervor. I applaud their audacity.
    I don't think we are saying the rights of the motorists trump the rights of cyclists. We are advocating share the road. If motorist A pissis off kid cyclist B it does no good to piss off motorist b thru Z. And it doesn't help commuter, Club rider, utility bikes riding the same streets every day. As an aside if you also piss off other cyclists what do you accomplish? If you piss off shoppers in the Mall what do you accomplish? If the event is designed to educate where are the booths? Where are the flyers? If it is to have a giant party why not meet at a park or fair grounds? If you want to get in everyone's face fine, but don't expect everyone to think you are cute. ( that is the generic you not you personally) Expect to make more enemies than friends. And don't look for help when the fertilizer hits the air conditioner.

    Look at what it does in these forums and we all have bikes in common. We can make our cycling preferences known without making anyone mad. Like doing a charity ride in Palm Springs where more that 10,000 cyclists show up and people cheer you and the town throws a party for the cyclists at the end of the day. There are a lot of cities that do that so that was just an example. A much better message.

  17. #17
    Time Trialist & Duathlete mtv8dmarine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleanshoebox View Post
    I don't mean to stir things up-but these kids have got a right to stand up and piss some people off. It gives me hope that this is what young cyclists are doing. More power to 'em.
    This is why I have no wonder why I was run off the road in La Verne a few weeks ago and claimed to be just another "snotty know-it-all twit". How they assumed that without so much as a word from me or even any attention is beyond me but from a cyclist perspective, it pisses motorists off and that's all they think about...how irritated they are because some cyclist was obnoxious and held up traffic unnecessarily. I think there are much better ways to create awareness.

  18. #18
    It's ALL base... DScott's Avatar
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    It's a party.

    Any social impact is infinitesimal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oleanshoebox View Post
    It seems I did a poor job of explaining that I understand both sides of the coin-but implicit in these arguments you both present is that the rights of the motorist supersede those of the cyclist. Sure-water fights fire better than fire-but these kids have a right to be pissed off-and to express that passion and fervor. I applaud their audacity.
    They do have a right. But so does a 2 year old complaining they can't have ice cream before dinner. All this does is piss the parents off (the driver) and causes more problems in the future (more pissed off drivers, that probably weren't annoyed with cyclists to begin with).

    I, like many other cyclists have been nearly killed plenty of times by drivers. I've been run off the roads countless times, I've been honked at, stuff thrown at me, and harassed. But I prefer to handle this in a mature fashion. Yelling back at them, blocking them, and "getting back" at them isn't going to win them over to your point of view.

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
    Furthermore, why piss off tons of people when only a small fraction of them are the A-hole drivers that deserve it? Punishing many for the actions of few is pathetic.

    Sorry if my words seem too strong, but I am personally offended by any cyclist (CM or otherwise) who promotes a lack of respect towards other people who may or may not have dished out the same in the past.
    I feel the same way about riots. It makes absolutely no sense. For example the LA riots. Why would you destroy your own neighborhood? To punish your neighbor for something someone else did? In this case the neighbors would be fellow cyclists. All this does is piss more people off that are going to take it out on other cyclists.

    There are soooooo many better ways to get cycling known to the general public and advocate better driving and not treating us like crap. I'm working with quite a few other people at our school and we've(not me personally but our president and other officers) not only talked with people on campus but with city officials on providing better places for cyclists to ride, commute, park their bikes, as well as getting us known and help advocating safer driving and treating cyclists like humans.

    One of our big goals is to turn the city around and make it one of the bike friendliest places in California. We've already been in the local newspaper, on the radio, and the city is starting to put in new bike lanes all over the place. There's a major road that I remember riding down that's like a freeway. They put a rather wide bike lane and the roads are nice and smooth now, as well as in other places. We also have a few events that have been going on in the city that we have advertised and helped at.

  20. #20
    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    ^ Nice! That's the way to go about making things better.

    As for the riots, listen to Sublime: April 29, 1992 (Miami)
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  21. #21
    Pedal pusher... alicestrong's Avatar
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    I'm curious if anyone has ever seen this documentary...

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    In beaurocratic limbo urbanknight's Avatar
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    ^ I'm going to have to watch that tonight. It looks to me like those events are legal and organized, and not just a bunch of people saying to meet at one location to piss people off. But I'll save my official opinion until after the documentary.
    "Well, I guess you can cut the arts as much as you want... Sooner or later, these kids aren't going to have anything to read or write about." (Richard Dreyfus as Glenn Holland)

  23. #23
    Slogging along rubic's Avatar
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    I have seen the SFV CM rides in the past. These rides are more like fun rides than the annoying San Francisco style CM. Cyclists meeting friends for a ride at night and having fun. Perhaps we should not paint these cyclists with such a negative broad stroke.

  24. #24
    Pedal pusher... alicestrong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by urbanknight View Post
    ^ I'm going to have to watch that tonight. It looks to me like those events are legal and organized, and not just a bunch of people saying to meet at one location to piss people off. But I'll save my official opinion until after the documentary.

    Hey I haven't seen it, but looks well made. Let me know if you think it's worth watching.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by rubic View Post
    I have seen the SFV CM rides in the past. These rides are more like fun rides than the annoying San Francisco style CM. Cyclists meeting friends for a ride at night and having fun. Perhaps we should not paint these cyclists with such a negative broad stroke.
    Are you saying they don't block the lane but leave room for cars to pass? They don't do like the San Diego CM rides and ride through shopping malls? They don't block intersections to allow the whole group to pass? If that is what you are saying I will put away my brush. Because even in cities that sponsor centuries and are attended by thousands of cyclists the rules of the road are followed.

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